13bturbo2

i was wondering i still have my S4 T2 block and i want to streetport it, but without sending it to a shop so that they can do it. Is it possible to streetport it myself and if so how would i be able to do this? are there certain things i should avoid and certain things i should focus on while porting it?

gonzz

First thing I would do is look at some pictures of some ports on the forum. Then you will need some templates (Racing Beat or Maxdatrix). Buy either a dye gringer (requires a compressor) or a multi-speed dremel and the flexshaft. Buy some carbide bits and sanding wheels from Racing beat. The link shows you how many of each you will use. It's not that hard just take your time.

http://www.racingbeat.com/PDF/tool%20guide.pdf

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

I think if you have to ask how you would be able to port, then you don't need to try on your own. No offense, but it's a pretty sensitive area and it takes all of 1 second to screw up a $100 engine iron.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

or you can get a few scrap engine plates to practice with.

Turblown

iTrader: (12)

Do it.

13bpower

Yeah, everyones doing it.

Crionics

Thanks for not trying to discourage him...

RETed

This is not about trying to discourage people.
This is about trying people from doing stupid and costly mistakes.
There are a lot of people and shops touting their porting skills.
A lot of them are junk.
I've seen ports from supposed gurus and very reputable shops, but they were very mild or very badly done.
I spend an average of 2 hour per intake port and 1.5 hour per exhaust port.
If people claim they can do it faster, they are either lying or they have some very out-of-this-world porting skills.
I had to learn, and during that time I've destroyed over $1,000 worth of housings due to screw-up's.
Anyone who claims to have done zero screw-up's is probably lying.
**** happens.

Porting is typically done in conjunction with a rebuild.
If you screw-up, you gonna go looking for good used housings unless you're rich.
Still, it's wasting a lot of time and money to replace housings that you messed up with.
It is very hard to get porting techniques on the first motor.
I can't even count how many times my porting technique has changed since I first started trying.
So, you've invested a lot of time and money for the rebuild.
One screw up with the porting bit scratches a good housing, and you need a replacement.
If the porting isn't aggressive enough, you'd get mild gains, but you could've got more.
Are you willing to take that chance?

Porting is not something I would recommend just anyone to try and do to their engines.
I'm not saying it's impossible.
I would recommend trying to find someone with a reputation for doing good port jobs.


-Ted

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Agreed, 100%. If you have to ask, then you probably shouldn't attempt on a good engine without some practice. You're also looking at an investment in tools (die grinder, GOOD set of stones, etc.) that will run into the hundreds.

The basics are pretty easy, and if you follow a template you can get an acceptable port. But if you screw up (and we've all been there) you end up with a junk iron, the hassle of tracking down a new one, and the cost associated.

There's a lot more to porting then just grinding out the port until it matches the template. You need to know where your limits are (you'll find them very quickly if you don't, then end up replacing parts) most importantly. But all the details. Making things smooth for flow, dealing with the transitions, etc...

At the very least, if you are going to attempt this, get a scrap engine and post pics so that people here can critique your work.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

well i have never done a port job on a rotary but i did a mild streetport on this engine i am building but i have done port jobs on 2 cycle engines and V8 engines. i said practice not go screw up your perfectly good plates didn't i?

13bturbo2

well i wasnt going to do it myself actually...i was going to do it with a couple of friends who are mechanics and who get paid to port engines. i was just wondering if we could do it on our own. besides it is their first time porting a rotary compared to porting 4banger 240s and civics. thats why i asked if there were any special things to look out for while doing it.

Dan H

Porting is totally different than on piston engines. There is more things to look out for. You can't go too big of a port for example and have issues with the side seals and corner seals. I suggest getting a template so it can guide you and give you an idea.

My best advice is to take the advice and buy up some damaged irons to practice on as the other guys have mentioned. It will give you a feel for it before you work on your actual irons. I'll be practicing on old irons before I port mines.

ronbros3

HI try it if it dont work,, try it again, if that dont work try again,i have been porting piston engines for 50 years, I learned that rotorys are totaly different machines,try it but be carefull. by the way I have a Bridgeport set up for doing 1/2 bridge porting, Hmm do you think thats where the name came from,, no ? THANKS RON

ddub

Let me say this. Kevin Landers said some of the same things to me when I was asking him some questions about porting before I did it for the first time. Well, he was right and wrong in my case. Yes it was not something I was prepared for. Yes I could've done a better job. No it really wasn't that "hard" and no I didn't screw anything up, but I could've done a better job. I sit here now with the engine almost fully broken in after the rebuild and port. It makes good power, it runs perfectly fine, and it has had no problems related to the engine. Did I get lucky? Maybe. But I did do a fair amount of research before doing all of this, even though I was still not fully prepared.

If I could go back in time and start over with some of the knowledge and ideas I have now, I would've done a couple things differently. I would've gone bigger on the primaries, smoothed out the secondaries more, and made a bigger bevel for sideseal clearance. I did make a fairly good bevel for the clearance, and Landers said I shouldn't have a problem, but bigger is always better when worrying about clearance.

It's really a learning process, have to start somewhere right? I mean the only way anyone gets good at something is practice. I am happy with my first rebuild and port considering the experience (none) I had going in and the knowledge I had, and lacked, when doing it. My next rebuild and port job that I have planned out in my head will be bigger, better, and much more fun.

RETed

One of the hardest things for rookies to do is get a hand of how a die grinder reponse biting into metal - both iron and aluminum.
If you have background in handling a die grinder, you're miles ahead in terms of experience.
Most "mechanics" that have done head work will feel very comfortable porting a rotary engine.

BTW, the Bridgeport mill is named after the town Bridgeport, CN I think.


-Ted

RotaryWeaponSE7EN

iTrader: (6)

I'd say definately go buy a iron to have u and ur friends practice on first. Might as well, for your motors sake.

drago86

You can do it yourself,.. I did,.. you need to do reasearch though,.. Its VERY easy to kill the side seals by porting the motor wrong,..

If your going to use someone elses templates that are proven not to damage the side seals its easy, just keep in the lines and make sure you dont acidentaly go even a MM beyond them, smooth ing and polishing the top edge of the port , back cutting and proper bowl shape are the only tricks you need to be concered about if you use a GOOD template.

If your making your own templates like i did you need to get a piece of plexi glass and put it on a partially assembled motor: aka a plate, a housing the stat gear the e-shaft and the rotor. Drill holes in the plexi so that you can lay it down and lock it in place with dowl pins like it was a plate. cut a big whole for the e-shaft to go thru the center also. now spend alot of time observing the seal tracks, you need to keep the corner seal and the leading edge of the side seal supported and on iron at all times (there are extreme forms that drop the leading edge but id ont agree with them.) you also need to make sure the trailing edge of the side seal doesnt impact the closing edge of the port all at once, the port needs to gradually bring the seal up onto the plate from the inside edge twards the outside, aka no closing the port abruptly all at once. this top edge also needs to be polished and smoothed, and the other tricks still apply.

There is other stuff i cant think of right now but thats a good starter,.. If you do it yourself be prepared to make mistakes.

I personally used a dremal and carbide bits i got from widgetsupply.com, the 1/4 inch ones work well and dont remove material to fast. It toke me probably 2 months from starting to make the template to finishing the ports, but i had college and other crap going on so i wasnt working on it for thoose 2 months entirely. I did however speend 6-8 hours on each port in just grinding time, i went slowly and my ports were fairly unorthadox requireing alot of bult removal fromt he runners. I did make mistakes, a few times i skipped the grinder on the plate, expect this and be prepared to sand these marks down with 400 grit paper. I also broke into the water jacket around the runner on both secondary ports, but this was a product of my runner design . You do need to be expecially careful around the primary ports check the casting thickness at the top frequently and look at other ports for a reference to the bottom of the casting.

this is as much as i can think of on the subject,.. It can be done sucessfully your first time though as long as you do research and know what your doing,,...



one thing to add is i think a dremal is easier for a first timmer to use then a die grinder,.. it takes less material and is easier to handle, it will take you longer though.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

well i drove my car for the first time in 8 months just a few minutes ago, the streetport helped a bit, it pulls harder than it ever did and i haven't even gone over 3/4 throttle as i'm trying to take it easy during break in.

obviously these ports are different than a 4 stroke piston engine but imo they are easier because they are larger, it is more like working with a large 2 stroke but you do have to be more careful and know the limits of the wall thickness, especially with the middle plate.

Crionics

So I guess you were born porting engines? I wasn't. Most people have to learn sometime. I agree it's something that has gotta be learned, but people have to start somewhere. I was just agreeing with the idea that it would be wise to start on some old housings to get the hang of it. Why discourage him from even attempting it? The average person is smart enough to tell fairly early on whether they have the aptitude to do this or whether the port looks like crap.

And realistically, with high mileage engines, it is always a good idea to replace the rotor housings. The irons can go through a few rebuilds usually, but to build an engine that has anywhere near or better than stock compression, the sluminum housings should always be replaced along with all seals, springs, o-rings, etc.

RETed

I guess you didn't comprehend what I was trying to say.


-Ted

astrochild7

iTrader: (3)

the other day i was laughing about the fact that i'm going to use a bridgeport mill to bridge port my plates....I wonder what the company would think

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

send em some pictures of your bridge.

Net Seven

iTrader: (5)

It's the cool thing to do now a days.

Swiftuh

Ive read this so many times lately, and it pisses me off. Basicly, what you are saying is, "make no attempt at advancing anything". Everyone in the world today is more stupid than the last generation. If no one trys anything new, then skills die off and are lost. I say, Do whatever you want if your comfortable, and have some knowlage on the subject. Im planning on doing it as well. Learn, read a book for gods sake. People who know enough to write a book on the subject, most likely know a billion times more than some tard on the internet that has trouble sharpening his pencil evenly... Aaron, this isnt ment for you, what your post said was good, its just me venting about people using that phrase so much.

Get a template. I personaly think that compressed air hand tools are better than electric if you have good tools and a compressor. Go to a salvage yard and get some irons(im thinking about getting a whole block). Dont start grinding on the ports, First grind on the side or somthing so you get a feel of the tool. that way you dont loose controll of it. take as much time as you can. when first starting, id think along the lines of "I want to remove a few 1/1000ths of an inch" so you take it real slow...

Learn a lot, have fun,
Mike

RETed

I say that a lot, but you're talking it a bit too hard.
It's an easy reply for a succint reponse.

How long have you been on online forums?
I've been doing this since 1988 and have been through MILLIONS of posts, threads, replies, etc.
No matter what the subject it, newbies and ignorant folks will tend to ask how to do things and most likely, they will screw it up.
You may be able to recover but you also may not.
Try and read all the threads in here - there are more failures than successes, easily.
There's also a lot of people who bitch about how they screwed up.

The reason I say is...
1) if you're asking, you really don't know what you're doing.
2) if you're determined enough, you will do it anyways, no matter what anyone else tells you.

Those are the facts.

There are those who are skilled who could do the job for you.
This will almost always mean money to be exchanged.
This is how the real world works.

If you're not willing to spend the money, you need to make a decision.
If you do attempt to try it yourself, be prepared for the consequences of failure.


-Ted