Ryde _Or_Die

Just wondering if you guys trust rotary aviation's apex seals. They have only gotten 4000 miles put on them so far from what their site says. How do you know they will last a long time. I want my engine to last at least 60k, but preferably much more than that.

RETed

What's wrong with stock or how about Hurley?


-Ted

Ryde _Or_Die

They are offering me a complete rebuild kit with EVERYTHING except housing for $825 shipped. Closest I've found is $1000 without shipping from Atkins.

CrackHeadMel

iTrader: (2)

Im trusting there seals, im $40 away from buying the seals at the "discount price"

i plan on running them in my partial bridge too

rotarygod

iTrader: (1)

They don't make their own seals. They just put together a kit that uses the aftermarket product and package it into a lower price alternative. I have the exact same seals in my engine but they were bought seperately from different places by me. They use the Viton oil rings, and the Teflon coated Viton water seals that are sold by McMaster-Carr, 2 piece 2mm apex seals from either Mazdatrix or Atkins, and a few stock Mazda parts. Lots of people use these parts. I like them. If rotary aviation uses them in airplanes at 10000 feet up then you probably shouldn't worry to much. They would have much more to lose from a failure than you would.

ERAUMAZDA

is that with the 7% tax added to it. Remember the company is based out of florida and so are you.

ERAUMAZDA

What are you talking about? There seals are developed by them?

Ryde _Or_Die

Copied from their site:

After over two years of intensive development efforts, we are announcing the availability of new, heat treated alloy apex seals. These seals offer 700% more bending strength and are 33% harder than the current after market competitors (Atkins and Hurley).

One of the main reasons for developing this product is to correct a problem seen in other seals - the tendency for them to develop chipped corners, especially under severe conditions such as detonation in turbo applications. Even though these new seals are harder, they are much less brittle than previously developed products.

We have about 4000 miles of testing on two turbo charged RX-7 cars, one of which was inadvertently run into severe detonation without any apparent affect on the seals. Testing is still in the early stages so at this point we are NOT recommending them for use in aircraft.

We may sound overly cautious about the reliability of these parts, but we are confident enough in them to offer a Iifetime warranty for seals used in stock applications with new rotor housings. (Customer must provide proof of new housing purchase when making warranty claim).

So where do you get that they are Atkins or some other companies seals? They said that these seals are not OEM and not Hurley or Atkins.

rotarygod

iTrader: (1)

Oh cool! They used to use other people's seals. Chill out guys!

My88Se

iTrader: (10)

I have to trust them. I just put them in my engine. Unfortunately I cannot give you guys results on the long term side of it as I am in college and no longer with my car........its in a safe place............

Ryde _Or_Die

Ok, what would be missing from a complete rebuild kit if I got the following:

http://www.rotaryaviation.com/apex_seals.htm
http://www.rotaryaviation.com/o-ring_kits.htm
http://www.rotaryaviation.com/install_gaskets.htm

Seems I would have all internal and external gaskets/o-rings and all the apex seals/springs. So I just need side and corner seals/springs, right? I just am looking for a complete rebuild, but the best price. That right there would cost me $404. Now how many side seals/springs do I need and how many corner seals/springs? And is there anything else I need? Thanks alot and sorry for all the questions.

Dvst8

iTrader: (6)

The had sold other aftermarket seals such as the from atkins. From what I've heard the new seals they are selling now are made by them or made in part by them.

I trust them, like others have said raviation trust there seals to be used in planes.

Dvst8

iTrader: (6)

TheY had sold other aftermarket seals such as atkins 2mm seals. From what I've heard the new seals they are selling now are made by them or made in part by them.

I trust them, like others have said raviation trust there seals to be used in planes.

Ryde _Or_Die

Anyone know what else I need besides the 3 links I posted above?



That ^ and apex seals/springs and all external gaskets. What am I missing exactly?

Dvst8

iTrader: (6)

12 side seals and 12 side seal springs. you can reuse the side seals if they are still in spec, if you have the extra cash then get new ones.

might also want to replace, oil pump chain, get the new thermo pellet ( that is also included in the basic kit ) and also the front hub bolt copper washer. I reused mine and it started to leak oil... pain in the *** to replace after you get everything back together..

all i can think of right now, but that should be it

Ryde _Or_Die

What about corner seals/springs? Aren't those what people always say to use FD ones? I looked on Mazdatix's site and it says 86-95 being the same part #. How many of those would I need? Thanks again.

DaleClark

iTrader: (55)

Here's a good hitlist of what to get on an engine rebuild.

Engine gasket kit from Mazda - has ALL the gaskets, water seals, tension bolt washers, all O-rings, etc.

Front and rear main seal

6 apex seals

6 sets of apex seal springs

12 side seal springs

12 corner seals

12 FD corner seal springs

FC3S.org's oil seal O-rings ($30 a set, I think)

FC3S.org's front oil pellet bypass ($15)

New oil seal springs (inner and outer, get the comp outer springs if you want to spend a little extra).

New oil metering pump lines (if yours are original)

New set of injector seals and O-rings (if yours are original)

That's probably $600 right there. That's stuff you ARE gonna need to rebuild an engine. You could probably buy the gasket set piecemeal if you only need a few gaskets (like you've recently replaced the turbo gaskets), but it's really nice having the whole works there if you need a gasket.

Side seals are typically reusable - they wear very little. Same goes for the oil seal metal casings - always a good idea to check them, but they're usually fine.

DO NOT get the upgraded oil O-rings from Hayes or the like - those things don't fit for ANYTHING. They're standard US size O-rings, and don't fit the metric casings right. I've broken the metal casings trying to install them before - they're just bad news. The FC3S.org O-rings are *real* metric size and will fit just like stock, but are made of better material.

Hard to say on those new apex seals - that could be a BIG gamble. Stock seals are at least the devil you know.

I wouldn't sweat stuff like the oil pump chain - of the tons of motors I've been through, I've YET to see one that was bad to the point I wouldn't reuse it. They really don't do that much work. Just use common sense on a lot of this stuff, and don't try and overengineer everything.

Dale

Ryde _Or_Die

What about corner seals/springs? Aren't those what people always say to use FD ones? I looked on Mazdatix's site and it says 86-95 being the same part #. How many of those would I need? Thanks again.

Alright so far this is what I am looking at:

Apex/seal kit from Rotary Aviation=$138
Installation gasket kit from Rotary Aviation=$113.80
Engine O-ring kit from R.A.(includes water/oil seals?)=$153
12 side seals/springs from Mazdatrix=$124.80/$18.36
Oil pump chain(mazdatrix)=$30.69
Front pulley bolt washer(that it Dvst8?)=$3.63
Thermal pellet?(couldn't find it on Mazdatrix's site)

That adds up to $582.28. Now only thing I seem to really be missing is the thermo pellet(a link would be great) and corner seals/springs, right? I need to know how many corner seals/springs I need to figure that out. And what about thrust bearings? And what about front and rear main oil seals? Are those included in either the installation gasket set or the engine o-ring set? Thanks for all the help. Maybe I can get a deal one way or another, lol.

Ryde _Or_Die

Sorry Dale, I was typing my post up as you were and you beat me.

So 12 corner seals/springs, thats $70.32/$28.68.
FC3S.org front oil pellet bypass-$15
Front/rear main seals, $3.86/6.21.

What about pilot bearing/seal?

Now thats $706.35. I have recently replaced my oil metering lines and turbo gaskets. All I need to know is if everything I listed is all I need and if I need the pilot bearing/seal and I should be good to go I believe. Here is everything I listed to make it easier:

Apex seal/spring kit from Rotary Aviation
Installation gasket kit from Rotary Aviation
Engine O-ring kit from R.A.(includes water/oil seals?)
12 side seals/springs from Mazdatrix
Oil pump chain(mazdatrix)
Front pulley bolt washer(that it Dvst8?)
Thermal pellet?(couldn't find it on Mazdatrix's site)
FC3S.org front oil pellet bypass(would I need the above?)
12 corner seals/springs
Front/rear main seals

Is that it everyone? What about thrust bearings and the pilot bearing and seal? Let me know if I should get those as well. If so I can be getting a FULL rebuild kit for under $800. Let me know, so I can order. Thanks.

13B2QuIcKNy

Yo Ryde, your list is good, but you still need rotor and stationary bearing from mazda.. thats about 55-60 bucks i think and i dont see why u need to replace the oil pump chain and if the corner seals and side seals are in spec.. u shouldnt replace those either, just get the 93 corner seal springs.. u should be good

Ryde _Or_Die

So I need the stationary bearings(2, right?) and a rotor bearing(1?)? I found the staionary bearings for like $11 a piece and rotor bearing for $18. Thats all guys? That adds up to $747.67. No thrust bearings or pilot bearings and seal needed? Only questions I have left. Thanks.

Ryde _Or_Die

Last questions:

If I get the oil pellet bypass do I need the thermal pellet?

What about thrust bearings and the pilot bearing and seal?

So I need the stationary bearings(2, right?) and a rotor bearing(1?)?

With those answered I should be good to go and order tomorrow as long as Rotary Aviation responds to my email in a timely mannor.

Smoken'

iTrader: (1)

I just bought a turbo motor from Bruce Turrentine, the guy in the atkins rotary videos. He swears by these kits from rotary aviation. Thats good enough for me to use 'em. Oh yeah, and the motor runs like a top!!! Haven't checked the compression yet, but i will soon.

Steve

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

Why are you replacing your rotor bearings? Are they bad? The oil bypass pellet replaces the thermal oil pellet/whatever crap that's originaly in the e-shaft, just pull it out, and stick the bypass pellet in it's place. It's always a good idea to replace the pilot & seal when you can

RETed

Wow, you got money just laying around that you need to spend it?

Is this for a turbo engine?

Stuff like the the oil pump chain doesn't need to be replaced for a street car.&nbsp The same goes for the thrust bearings - unless yours are damaged?

Don't bother with the "comp" oil control springs - I've run them before and could not figure out how much better they are from stock!&nbsp I checked measurements with a micrometer, and they were the same dimensions, so unless they are using some kind of "exotic" metals, it's a waste of money.

If you're on a budget, I can give you advice on how to save some money by reusing your old parts, but if you're willing to spend the money for brand new stuff, then you've got almost all of it covered.

Yes, replace the pilot bearing, pilot bearing seal, and throw-out bearing everytime you uncover the clutch.&nbsp I do this out of habit for the pilot bearing + seal, but the throw-out bearing can be replaced if it's in good condition.&nbsp How do you check the TO bearing?&nbsp Remove and turn the bearing to see if it spins SMOOTHLY - if it doesn't, it'll feel like someone threw sand in it; if you ever felt a brand new one, you'll know what I mean.

All metal crush washers can be reused - learn what "anneal" means.

Good luck!



-Ted