Do I really need a wideband now?!
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Joined: Feb 2001
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From: n
I do agree that it's easier to tell a dumbshit to shoot for 10.5 AFR's on a widebnd under WOT.
hah. id sure like to see some articles on tuning a rotary with ONLY EGT. i bet theres not many. how do you expect a newb to learn??
I charge customers for this, and I am not willing to share all of my secrets just to prove a point.
your right you cant tune your ignition without it very easily, but that doesnt mean you should use ONLY it to tune. your the first person ive ever heard promote that.
Get that fact straight.
I have always stated that *I* can tune with just an EGT gauge.
The implication being that you do NOT need a wide-band.
I've NEVER said a wide-band is USELESS.
btw im not about to go lean out my 7 like you said. im very insecure with lean conditions because not all of us are rich enough to go buy a rebuild kit anytime (or have the spare parts).
You are just showing your ignorance on the subject.
Ignorance is bliss.
You're just wasting gas.
again im not denying how useful an EGT gauge is, just that if a newb has a choice between a wideband or egt they should choose wideband because theres more info on tuning with them.
My mottos would be:
Use the best tools that you can afford to tune.
Learn how to use said tools.
Don't be like sheep and go with the flock.
-Ted
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 850
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From: MO
I'm not willing to describe how I do it.
I charge customers for this, and I am not willing to share all of my secrets just to prove a point.
I charge customers for this, and I am not willing to share all of my secrets just to prove a point.
I have NEVER said you SHOULD ONLY use an EGT gauge just to tune.
Get that fact straight.
I have always stated that *I* can tune with just an EGT gauge.
The implication being that you do NOT need a wide-band.
I've NEVER said a wide-band is USELESS.
Get that fact straight.
I have always stated that *I* can tune with just an EGT gauge.
The implication being that you do NOT need a wide-band.
I've NEVER said a wide-band is USELESS.
Are you the guy I was arguing about tuning on a dyno?
You are just showing your ignorance on the subject.
Ignorance is bliss.
You're just wasting gas.
You are just showing your ignorance on the subject.
Ignorance is bliss.
You're just wasting gas.
That's a pretty idiotic thing to say.
My mottos would be:
Use the best tools that you can afford to tune.
Learn how to use said tools.
Don't be like sheep and go with the flock.
-Ted
My mottos would be:
Use the best tools that you can afford to tune.
Learn how to use said tools.
Don't be like sheep and go with the flock.
-Ted
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 850
Likes: 0
From: MO
It is important to note though, that the ignition timing has a dramatic effect on exhaust gas temperature and can cause the EGT reading to be very misleading. As an example, an ignition event that happens very early in the cycle will give the heat created from the combustion more time to be dissipated into the piston, piston rings, cylinder walls, combustion chamber, and water jackets, before going out of the exhaust tube. This tends to create a much lower exhaust temperature. Conversely, when the ignition event happens later in the cycle, there is little time for the engine to absorb the heat from the combustion, so the resulting exhaust gas temperature is much higher. Both of these situations can affect the EGT regarless of the air/fuel mixture in the cylinder.
For this reason, it is always preferable to trust the air/fuel monitor over the EGT sensor for actual calibration. The EGT sensors do provide useful information about the condition of the engine and its relative margin of safety, so they should also be considered to perform the best calibration possible based on the amount of information available. -Ben Strader
For this reason, it is always preferable to trust the air/fuel monitor over the EGT sensor for actual calibration. The EGT sensors do provide useful information about the condition of the engine and its relative margin of safety, so they should also be considered to perform the best calibration possible based on the amount of information available. -Ben Strader
i agree that its useful but using it by itself is not the best route. you tune how you want though.
boy this is a dumb thread.
if you don't know what you are doing, get a wideband. It is easy to tune with one and relatively inexpensive, plus it can go right into the stock 02 sensor bung, so no welding a bung for an EGT.
if you want to tune properly, you should really use BOTH. you tune to the desired AFR with the wideband, then use the EGT to tune timing. Using that method, you can get right to the edge if desired, or any safety margin you want.
pat
if you don't know what you are doing, get a wideband. It is easy to tune with one and relatively inexpensive, plus it can go right into the stock 02 sensor bung, so no welding a bung for an EGT.
if you want to tune properly, you should really use BOTH. you tune to the desired AFR with the wideband, then use the EGT to tune timing. Using that method, you can get right to the edge if desired, or any safety margin you want.
pat
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 26,664
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From: n
His book was a royal waste of money.
I didn't learn a damn thing from it.
Do a search for his name on here, he's not the best reference even though he has a book out and his EFI classes...
Oh, and BTW, I already know about all those things about the EGT.
Experience will teach you that.
Stop regurgitating information and go do **** yourself.
You might learn something.
-Ted
Rotary Enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 850
Likes: 0
From: MO
Originally Posted by jetenginedoctor
Ben does a fantastic job of not only teaching the fundamentals of engine management systems, he provides the students the tools to further their own education on the subject by being able to make informed decisions when it comes to the implementation of engine management equipment. In his courses, you will learn concepts that are otherwise taught only in select few university level engineering programs, and which are extremely important to being able to develop your skills as an engine tuner. Ben also cuts through a lot of the BS that has been preached in magazines and online forums for years and proves what he says using simple math that all students are taught to use. If the math isn't enough to convince you, the dynamometer demonstration at the conclusion of the course surely will.
Keep in mind, the EFI University seminars are not a mere novelty. If you go into them with the motivation to learn, and actually make an effort to fully take-in everything that is presented, you will leave the program with a much better understanding of how things really work, and you'll be much more likely to not make bad tuning decisions on not only your car, but your customers' cars as well. I recommend buying (and reading) the Ben Strader book from Amazon.com or the like prior to attending the courses. This way, you can make a list of questions to take with you so that you fully maximise your value per dollar spent, and it makes for an even higher quality experience for the other students if everyone asks the tough questions.
EFI University is already changing the landscape of what makes up the tuners operating in the US. Professional tuners can leave his class with a logical approach to doing better quality work for their customers, and novice tuners will know enough to see through the bogus claims of others and will recognise the difference that quality tuning work and the right tools make. You will most likely meet some very good people and make a lot of new friends at the seminar, as people who attend are most likely intelligent folks who are serious enough and motivated enough to make the effort to educate themselves on a subject that relatively FEW people are truely experts on.
EFI University can't promise that you'll become the best tuner in the world, but I think they can promise to make you a much better tuner much sooner than if you had to try to figure it all out on your own, the hard way, without a structured course to get you ahead of the normal learning curve.
Yes, I think it's money very well spent.
BK
Keep in mind, the EFI University seminars are not a mere novelty. If you go into them with the motivation to learn, and actually make an effort to fully take-in everything that is presented, you will leave the program with a much better understanding of how things really work, and you'll be much more likely to not make bad tuning decisions on not only your car, but your customers' cars as well. I recommend buying (and reading) the Ben Strader book from Amazon.com or the like prior to attending the courses. This way, you can make a list of questions to take with you so that you fully maximise your value per dollar spent, and it makes for an even higher quality experience for the other students if everyone asks the tough questions.
EFI University is already changing the landscape of what makes up the tuners operating in the US. Professional tuners can leave his class with a logical approach to doing better quality work for their customers, and novice tuners will know enough to see through the bogus claims of others and will recognise the difference that quality tuning work and the right tools make. You will most likely meet some very good people and make a lot of new friends at the seminar, as people who attend are most likely intelligent folks who are serious enough and motivated enough to make the effort to educate themselves on a subject that relatively FEW people are truely experts on.
EFI University can't promise that you'll become the best tuner in the world, but I think they can promise to make you a much better tuner much sooner than if you had to try to figure it all out on your own, the hard way, without a structured course to get you ahead of the normal learning curve.
Yes, I think it's money very well spent.
BK
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