Depowered Rack Question
01-01-12, 11:50 AM
#1
Passion for Racing
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Crown Point, Indiana
Posts: 1,066
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Depowered Rack Question
I've done a lot of searching and I know how to do it and all, but my question is will the steering feel heavy due to the ratio on the rack being meant for a p/s system? The only car that I have driven without p/s (system was just looped through itself on the rack) was an '85 AE86, and it felt okay but not really that good. It was really heavy and just did not feel good at all.
01-01-12, 12:14 PM
#2
I don't mind my depowered rack at all, but its a personal preference. There are some members here that feel the rack with power steering is still too heavy and then there are people like me that felt that the power steering system with the belt removed was perfectly fine.
01-01-12, 12:35 PM
#3
yes it will feel a bit heavy, if you do alot of slower speed transitions like autocrossing and drift you likely will want to fix the power unit.
even my car that came with a manual rack is a bit tough to throw around when you want, but the 245's in front definitely don't help.
even my car that came with a manual rack is a bit tough to throw around when you want, but the 245's in front definitely don't help.
01-01-12, 12:47 PM
#4
Passion for Racing
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Crown Point, Indiana
Posts: 1,066
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
The whole problem with my rack is the p/s pump itself, the pulley wobbles during idle but wont budge if i try to move it with the car/belt off. I figured maybe it would be fun to venture into the depowered rack zone but if it makes it a pain for autocross then I don't want to do that. I tried to source a new pulley (figuring maybe the bearing is shot) but I could not find a new one. It makes a very 'grainy' feeling when you turn the wheel, and you can feel the wobble in the pulley on the wheel when you turn it.
01-03-12, 03:57 PM
#7
i depowered my rack a year ago and at times i forget i dont have p/s, its that easey when driving. its only when pulling from a stop that its hard.
but i still have my p/s pump and it was working perfect when i removed it. if you need one pm me, i will let it go cheep
but i still have my p/s pump and it was working perfect when i removed it. if you need one pm me, i will let it go cheep
Trending Topics
01-04-12, 07:03 PM
#8
It is all about personal preference. I had to remove the PS belt on my TII once as a matter of necessity and I loved the way the steering felt afterwards. I thought the power assist was too much. I felt more "connected" without it. I never autocrossed it in that configuration, but even parking lots didn't seem to bother me.
I don't know firsthand, but doesn't a properly depowered rack feel slightly lighter than just a PS rack with no belt?
I don't know firsthand, but doesn't a properly depowered rack feel slightly lighter than just a PS rack with no belt?
01-04-12, 08:27 PM
#9
With the belt off you're now pushing fluid instead of the reverse, which is how PS works.
You also still have all the seals, which contribute to drag, not to mention the 5° or so of slop in the quill (which gets welded in a proper depowering job).
An addendum about power v. manual...
Over the holidays my niece drove my manual FC (she likes to shift and is quite good at it) but she complained about low speed maneuvering.
After thinking about it, I realized there was a real difference in the way she and I approached things, no doubt due to the fact that every car she's ever driven has had a power rack and I've never really had power anything.
Basically, if you're used to manual racks, you know that steering effort is much less with the wheels rolling...even just a little. As I approach a stop where I'll be turning, as the car slows to a stop I **** the steering wheel in the direction I'll be going. "Pre-turning", as it were.
This is the same for parallel parking...you do the bulk of the steering prior to a complete stop or direction change (forward to reverse).
She did none of this- because why would she when a pinkie finger can spin a PS wheel with no effort? When I showed her what I was talking about the complaints stopped. Maybe she was just being nice to her weird uncle, maybe not.
Manual racks will always be "harder" than powered ones but most folks seem to complain about low speed maneuvers which can largely be mitigated by changing your driving style a bit.
01-05-12, 09:53 AM
#10
i know it's not quite the same feeling but i couldn't bring myself to say go ahead and gut it to see how it feels and compares. but then again it really isn't that difficult to remove the pump unless it has A/C as well.
the proper way to depower the rack is to also modify the rack itself which very few people actually do. the valves need to be gutted so the rack can breathe properly, i believe someone did a writeup on it many moons ago.
the proper way to depower the rack is to also modify the rack itself which very few people actually do. the valves need to be gutted so the rack can breathe properly, i believe someone did a writeup on it many moons ago.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 01-05-12 at 09:57 AM.
01-05-12, 12:06 PM
#11
Passion for Racing
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Crown Point, Indiana
Posts: 1,066
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
My AC is completely removed, I just have yet to remove the blower motor from under the glovebox. And I have that write-up saved on my home computer. It's the Flyin' Miata article on how to "properly depower" your steering rack. It was a good article, I'll post the link later if someone doesn't beat me to it.
Personally, I don't like how assisted all the cars of today have become, and I think it has led to the lazy and unaware drivers that we have today. I prefer cars to be the way when we had things like the Porsche 917 (cliche I know, but still true), whendriving was DRIVING. It was either you were a man about it, or you just didn't do it.
Personally, I don't like how assisted all the cars of today have become, and I think it has led to the lazy and unaware drivers that we have today. I prefer cars to be the way when we had things like the Porsche 917 (cliche I know, but still true), whendriving was DRIVING. It was either you were a man about it, or you just didn't do it.
01-06-12, 08:58 AM
#13
Passion for Racing
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Crown Point, Indiana
Posts: 1,066
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Wait, thats the heater motor? I was always told that was just for the AC and to remove it if your removed the AC.... I wish there was an easy way to pick through all the good and bad info you get on here.
01-06-12, 09:42 AM
#15
If you've deleted AC, the thing you want to remove is the box in between the blower motor and the center box.
Actually, unless you have the special AC delete vent to reconnect the fan to the heater, you'll have to remove that center AC box, pop it open and gut it, then reinstall, otherwise no air reaches the heater core.
Gutting the box is simple but will leave three holes in the firewall to plug.
01-06-12, 01:02 PM
#16
RX-7 Old Timer
The best thing about a manual rack is that you can easily feel when the front tires are starting to break loose. I like it for snow and for autocross.
On the other hand, I like the PS in my TurboII because it complements all the other bells and whistles on the car.
On the other hand, I like the PS in my TurboII because it complements all the other bells and whistles on the car.
01-08-12, 01:21 AM
#20
On my 88 I de-powered. At first I just took the pump out and hooked the hoses together. Later I drained all the fluid from the rack, and it was a lot better. Later still I used compressed air to get out all of the fluid and it was better still. I also used better fittings and looped the rack back to it's self. do that to keep the grit and water out.
It's only slightly more work than my 86 manual factory rack.
It's only slightly more work than my 86 manual factory rack.
01-08-12, 01:28 AM
#21
Try this...
run a hose to your cold start bottle (or other small unused fluid bottle) from your rack on both ends (in and out). Dont block it off, it needs to flow fluid. You may need to modify the bottle to accept 2 line inputs. Fill the bottle with PS fluid. I've seen this done before and it feels so much lighter than looping as it allows pressure to dissipate in the fluid bottle and won't suck air. Kind of like bleeding brakes.
run a hose to your cold start bottle (or other small unused fluid bottle) from your rack on both ends (in and out). Dont block it off, it needs to flow fluid. You may need to modify the bottle to accept 2 line inputs. Fill the bottle with PS fluid. I've seen this done before and it feels so much lighter than looping as it allows pressure to dissipate in the fluid bottle and won't suck air. Kind of like bleeding brakes.
01-08-12, 11:03 AM
#23
Slung all my rods
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Arab, AL
Posts: 190
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From my research I've got the rack that is supposed to be worse for street usage depowered. And I've been driving it a while now with the power steering computer unplugged. It doesn't bother me at all really. Certainly not as bad as my 2g dsm was without the p/s belt on. That one gave me tennis elbow.
02-19-12, 08:00 PM
#25
Most of my steering wheels are stock diameter (380mm), currently running a smaller 350mm wheel to check gauge visibility.
With a true manual rack (20:1 ratio) and 235 front tires, 350mm is as small as I'm comfortable with...380mm is decidedly better, but it's hard to find nice looking wheels in that size.
With a true manual rack (20:1 ratio) and 235 front tires, 350mm is as small as I'm comfortable with...380mm is decidedly better, but it's hard to find nice looking wheels in that size.