banzaitoyota

PLease post a list of the "builders" who glue the APEX seal in the rotor.

I know they glue the corner piece. HMMM Mandenville doesn't, Downing probably doesn't....Golden doesn't....

autocrash

lol... seems pretty much true...


and BTW, it is my opinion that on re-assembling the engine you should NOT use superglue. I have reached this conclusion because there are other methods (elastics, vaseline) that NO ONE has disputed will work, why not use a method that is agreed upon rather than something that MIGHT burn off...
As well, if you even THINK it might have been the problem the first time, why use it the SECOND time?

(This is ONLY from the information contained in this thread, believe it or not, I have never tried to burn superglue... and so I know very little about its combustible nature... I know it's sticky as **** tho... )

mazdaspeed7

I know, I dont plan on doing the same thing I did before. Im still going to use superglue, but properly on the apex seals this time

Bonzai, with new seals, the triangle piece is ALREADY glued in from the factory. Superglue is used on USED seals. Im sure they rarely, if ever, use old seals, even if theyre within spec. Hence no need to use superglue. But everyone Ive talked to who has rebuilt a motor with used seals said they used sperglue to hold the corner piece in. BTW, I know I wasnt supposed to glue the seal into the rotor. I dont know what I was thinking. I was just frustrated with it not working right the other way.

banzaitoyota

No one disagrees on the corner piece. The whole thread came across as you actually glued the seal down in the rotor on purpose.

Rpeck

I disagree with the super glue ... even on the 2nd piece of the Apex (just MT personal opinion), unless you are reusing apex seals I have 0 Xp with that. I have always got new ones. Crack that bloody motor open and tell us whats up

BTW I love you all!

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

Well, if it is superglue that's holding the seals to the side housings, you could always get some carb cleaner and a lighter, light lighter, spray carb cleaner into lighter, and then spray the big ole flame into the exhaust port and hopefully melt it off. (No, don't do this, I'm just being a smartass!) When are you guys going to tell us what it was!? I'm dieing to find out what caused it to lock up! Being that I've rebuilt my engine, and it worked, I'd like to know what to be careful of (as always) if I do it again

Sniper_X

Why is this the first time that you have mentioned that you agree with this?

DUH... YES...
SG is used to hold the corner peice in.
And as i mentioned, I only do it to hold it on if the new one I ordered broke off!

I never reuse apex seals, and said the SG thing knowing that.

I was always referring to your use of it to hold the APEX selas in the rotor.

I too, don't know what you were thinking.

You promised to "use SG this time, but the RIGHT way."

I assume then that you are expecting a corner seal to have broken from its apex seal, and your referring to gluing them back on for the second try.

You have refuted, rebutted, and defended you position viamently until just now.

Its just frustrating to see you post this thread,
explain how you are preverbially "tired of holding your own head up manually", (use a rubber band on the seals),
so you glued your forehead to a post, (glued in the seals),
started to defend the practice,
and swear that if you just have someone get a running start, and hit your head with a brick, (put the engine IN the car and POP the clutch )

It will come loose, and all will be fine.
(You know, like the "pros" do it)

(god I love analogy)

Anyway, im not saying MY way is the ONLY way.
But theres only so much learning by screwing up that is okay.

Its equally OK to take advice from those that have successfully done this before.

I know that Atkins has a AMAZING reputation for its engines. So much so that they have a video and it explains the best way i have ever seen to build a rotary.

And no, Mazda didnt use Hylomar.
They also made a pusation damper that burns cars to the ground.

Mazda didn't do ALOT of things that are common practice now and have spawned HUNDRESD of technical bulletins over the years.

Build your engine any way you want.

Just please dont post that you glued your engine together and then expect to NOT get a range of responses from the lude to the experienced.

I saw that you were building your first engine, was pretty amazed at the direction it was taking, and then knowing what you must be going through, spent time to be serious and constructive while trying to help.

It not like I didnt just spend a day in the sun and into the night, working on cars to keep my house since I got laid off 6 months ago.

I'm just doing this for a LIVING now.

I could have just shaken my head gone to sleep.

So as I said before, if you will take my advice, I will give it.

Or if you will at least tak some other experienced builders' advice or follow the FSM or video to the letter.

I can promise you that if you do, you'll drop the chances that your putting a time bomb in your car by about 95%.

black_sunshine

Superglue is a great way to avoid lots of frustration; he's got the right idea. Yeah, so it's not by the book, and why should you ppl care? It's not your motor that's being rebuilt, nor are you the one rebuilding it! And superglue WILL easily lock-up a motor. Heck, a little piece of carbon deposit can lock it up, and that stuff basically crumbles in your fingers (okay, so it's more like a rock, but still that's not the point!).

Springs gotta be put in right. I've seen some work bolth ways and I've seen some lock-up when put in wrong. Sometimes it matters, sometimes it doesn't. Put them in up just to play it safe; look at the FSM for an illustration of how they look.

Vasalene is by the book; it works fair at best. Rubber band is also by the (other) book. Works great, but almost requires a helper, and what about the side seals? Superglue isn't by the book, but works wonders.

Dab the glue on the center of the seals with them resting on the springs. Don't put it in the groove of course. Break the glue on the side seals after you have the rotor housing on. Tap (DON'T POUND IT! you'll take-out a side housing!) the rotor with a wooden dowel and hammer (WITHOUT any seals on the top-side of the rotor of course). The apex seals SHOULD automatically break when the motor is turned (due to the curvature of the rotor housing). If they don't break (engine won't start after 5min of cranking, and it's not flooded), go in through the exhaust port and spray them down with brake-parts cleaner. Oil everything very well. Jell-lube works great. Engine break-in grease is recomended. At the minumim, a nice rub-down with mineral oil (10w-40) works as well.

A gasket emmolient (hylomar) is recomended, but not required. I REALLY recomend using Vasalene on them. Do this AFTER the rotor housing is in place; lift the housing just enough to fit your finger in between and rub a decent ammount on the seals; the dowls pins should keep it straight. Gotta be careful when doing this one; sometimes the apexes like to grab the housings. Don't do it before the housings are on top of the seals; they'll expnd too much to re-fit into the groove.

Other than that, hope nothing's damaged; highly unlikely since it didn't even turn. Sometimes the smallest things make all the difference. Good luck, and best reguards!

WHaCKo

slpin

iTrader: (9)

to break it loose

what if you just get a car behind, push your car to arund 40-50mph, put it in 3rd gear and pop the clutch???
not by the book either, but it should break it loose.

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

Wow, this is only 3 years late. WTF n00b!

BlaCkPlaGUE

We need a zombified emoticon for bring back of the dead posts like these..

bingoboy

lol. it's a zombie

actually i've heard if you torque the tention bolts down too tight that your engine won't want to spin either. the superglued triangle corner assist pieces are neat though. when you torque the bolts down to spec you can hear the little *snap snap* of the seals breaking free.

ls1hybrid

Gregs

you do realize that teh apex seal needs to be able to pivot up and down in the rotor groove, all i can say is

Icemark

Thread is long term dead... thread closed