banzaitoyota

ONCE AGAIN, it boils down to people not reading and following lable instructions on a product. There are different grades/composition of LOCTITE products for different applications. READ AND FOLLOW MFG Directions for the product and 99% of your problems will go away. THER IS A REASON FOR THE DIFFERNT COMPOUNDS OF THREAD AND BEARING LOCKING COMPOUNDS.

hypntyz7

People like to spout off at the mouth instead of making a useful comment or none at all, that is most of it.

Im willing to bet he got his fill of dealing with fabbing and selling an item to the public last time

Oh hell, here we go, time to enlighten the ignorant masses.

Did you miss the part where I mentioned that no directions were given verbally, on paper with the order, or on the webpage? The average competent person will look at this, read the words from the PR website "The fit is extremely tight and ensures the insert will not move. " and assume that once pressed in these are good to go. Nowhere on that page or anywhere else is it mentioned, nor have I ever read on this forum or any others or in any technical discussion, about the use of loctite on 2 smooth surfaces, much less specifically to hold these inserts in place.

hypntyz7

^

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

You're forgetting that banzai is so obsessed with pineapple racing he doesn't think logically when mentioning them.

Kim

OMG now im really glad that european cars came with butterflies

banzaitoyota

I think ANYONE with BASIC mechanical KNOWLEDGE would know better then to press fit an item into sleeves.

adamlewis

Isnt that what PR does?...

wankelhead

i called pr when i installed mine-they told me to use locktite,and i roughed them up a bit on the "glueing"surfaces of my own accord.i have part of the intake off,so i guess i'll check'em out when i get back home.
~d

banzaitoyota

I need to clarify my POST.

I have a set of Sleeves and Inserts I purchased last year from PR. They came assembled.


My comment: "I think ANYONE with BASIC mechanical KNOWLEDGE would know better then to press fit an item into sleeves." is a little vague on reading it and needs to be expanded on.

If you can press the 2 components together with hand pressure, the resulting FIT is too loose to withstand the heat and vibration of a running engine, hence the porper use of SLEEVE RETAINING COMPOUND is called for.

To learn morre about this read the following:
Machinery's Handbook 22nd Edition Page 1517:
" Limits and Fits.-Fits between cylindrical parts or, briefly cylindrical fits, govern the proper assembly and performance of countless mechanisms. ....Interference fits secure a certain amount of tightned between parts, whether they are meant to remain permanently assembled or to be taken apart from time to time. Or again, two parts may be required to fit snugly-without apparent looseness or tightness. The designers problem is to specify these different types of fits in such a way that the shop can produce them. This involves the adaptation of two manufacturing limits for the hole and two for the shaft, and hence, the adoption of manufacturing tolerence on each part."


That starts the chapter on fits, basically it boils down to PROPER assembly methods and manufacturing tolences.

Did you measure the ID of the sleeve and the OD of the insert to see if an Interference Force fit was possible?

Would you install an APEX seal into a rotor that you had not measured and checked for clearances?

hypntyz7

Yeah, no ****. Sometimes I think he'd suck Rob's dick if he had the chance, the way he talks...

I knew once I posted this that at some point banzai would be in here fighting a battle for PR, even though there is none to be fought.

Yeah, ok, whatever. I didnt post this here to listen to criticism of my abilities, so let it go. I suppose you're just the king mechanic of the southeast, which is why I hear so much about your work

I suppose you've never made a mistake, never had an idea that didnt work, and never had to take something back apart because you forgot a small detail, huh. Yeah, sure thing.

What the ****??? Yeah, let me run out to the corner bookstore and pick that up...

Bottom line, if you're just here to poke and prod, gloat, say "I told you so" or ay other such BS, well, I dont need or want to hear it. It's funny how Im sure the question has been asked before, but until now I have never seen you post regarding installation, nor was I aware you were an expert in the field. But, by hell I guess you are now.

hypntyz7

damned double post, thanks forum

Black13B

iTrader: (1)

Kevin,

i hope the petty forum battles that happen here dont discourage you from posting material like this..

it's informative stuff (and yes, I realize your not trying to burn PR, your just giving us a heads-up, which is exactly the type of things that should be posted here - and alot of people get discouraged from posting by a little forum flame or the like)..

just thought id show some appreciation for the information you share with us..

edit: btw - anyone else think this thread should be stickied other than me?

banzaitoyota

Chill out Kevin, How many cars have been ruined from the misuse/misapplications of materials and parts?

banzaitoyota

BTW, I wasn't defending PR in anyway. Like I daid my sleeves came assembled with the inserts in them. I am sure as hell going to tack the inserts in with the TIG now. I wasn't attacking anyones mechanical ability, just questioning why someone would try to assemble 2 pieces without verifying fit first.

hypntyz7

Im chilled dude. It just seems like you come off, in writing anyway, as always seeming to know a little bit more than anyone else, regardless of who it might be. No offense intended, just reality.

I, for one, just took the manufacturer's word...this was the only info available to me, when doing the install in teh middle of the night.

"The fit is extremely tight and ensures the insert will not move. "

Go to PR's page and show me ANYWHERE that it mentions using any type of loctite, glue, epoxy, pins, ANYTHING to hold the sleeve in place other than pressure fit.

IF you get a can of spraypaint that says "shake well and spray" are you gonna take it to a lab and have the spray rate measured? Doubt, it, youre gonna shake well and spray, arent you?

banzaitoyota

I agree that Pineapples page is lacking basic info, I would have followed up by asking Rob or Joel.

mwpayne

Ok, time for me to jump in. I am the owner of the car/engine decripted in Kevin's photos. Before I asked Kevin to do my rebuild, I knew I wanted the pineapple sleeves installed. Kevin agreed they're a great product, he'd installed them before. I called pineapple and spoke to Rob personally. I asked specifically if there was anything special I needed to install the port sleeves. He said "No, we just press them in here, they stay snug". I called Kevin to verify this. I ordered them myself, he performed the rebuild (very well and VERY REASONABLY, I might add).
This is not Kevin's fault in any way, form or fashion. He's installed these before with no problems. I don't know if mine, and the ones in his 'vert, were perhaps ever so slightly out of spec regarding size, or what the problem was. This was simply a fluke, but it is a good idea to find a way to secure them permanently. It seems that now, after the fact, this is beginning to happen. I am not in the habit of reading instructions on a project, asking the creators about installation, and then QUESTION THEM. It is assumed that they should be aware of proper installation techniques, keeping worst-case senarios in mind. I wish pinepple had been more proactive, but I have no ill feelings toward them in any way. I believe that if they thought something like this might happen, they would have made an effort to solve the problem before it happens. Kevin rebuilt it, perhaps improving on the last rebuild slightly (more porting?) and adding the BAC valve I asked for to help with my AC.
Kevin was not going to charge me a penny for all this, I did insist that I pay for parts at the least.
I am aware many of you know this, but Kevin is the only person in the world I would trust to work on my car. He is competent, incredibly knowledgeable, his integrity and honesty are, in my mind, without equal.
Anyone on this forum who doesn't know him and questions his abilities ought to remember and know how many truly satisfied customers he has. Indeed, the main reason I just bought my son a 91 na is because I know Kevin could take care of anything that may happen, professionally and reasonably.
Kevin, I Thank You.
Oh, and sorry about the yard light! Glad you're a better mechanic than I am a driver!!

Angel Guard Racing Team

I read somwhere in this forum about removing the sleeves, filling with teflon and grinding to make a nice curve. Teflon is supposed to hold up to 400 degrees. Have you guys seen that post?

mazdaspeed7

Ive seen that, and Ive done it before too, but with nylon. Nylon is good past 350 degrees, and doesnt start to melt until just over 400. Its also cheaper and easier to find. I also use nylon for the sleeve inserts, and it holds up very nicely. Theres 2 or 3 people who have nylon inserts I made here, but I dont remember offhand who they were.

88IntegraLS

Hmmm, making my own sleeve fairings from nylon . . . sounds like a great idea. How did you retain the nylon, with an adhesive or with countersunk screws from the back end of the sleeve?

mazdaspeed7

I pinned them from the side with a deck screw and then ground it smooth with the sleeve. The inserts CANNOT come out like that, I had to throw away a sleeve because because the insert wasnt lined up perfectly, and I couldnt get it out without destroying the sleeve.

RarestRX

Yo,

I just got my sleeves in the mail. No instructions and the website /still/ doesn't say anything about Red Loctite. I asked about how to install them and was told to rough up both the inside of the sleeve and the inserts and use Red Loctite.

What would I have done if I didn't ask? Thanks again Kevin L. for bringing this to my attention so I knew to ask.

BTW, the inserts look very nicely made, but they really should come with instructions or a tube of Red Loctite.

Kevin
1989 GTUs "Bump."

hypntyz7

It's odd that you brought this one back. Myself and another small rotary shop owner were discussing this today, and upon a check of the website, sure enough, no updates, no mention of anything.

Oh well...

Mr. Gadget

Bud, just an FYI, I believe its GREEN loctite - Big difference.

hypntyz7

Souns like thats what PR told Kevin. Seems to me they need to get their **** straight...