Cooling system problems/ high temps, need some suggestions...
05-10-05, 01:25 PM
#1
Cooling system problems/ high temps, need some suggestions...
To start off, i have an 88 TII with GReddy FMIC, Fluidyne radiator, Permacool E-fan, SRMotorsports pulley, engine has agressive SP. It only has about 70 miles on it, but problem existed with last motor as well.
The problem i am having is mostly during cruising speeds down the interstate. I noticed that my stock temp guage on my old motor would go about 2/3 of the way up, but i thought the guage was probably off. When i put in the new motor, i installed aftermarked guages including a water temp guage. I installed the sensor in the front iron under where the AC braket was originally. Now that i have accurate temp guage to go by, while cruising, i will hit 225 deg. This is way more then i would like it to be of course. I have installed a 180 degree thermostat with a 1/4" hole, but it did not help much. If you let the car idle, it will stay right at 180 degrees, but as soon as you get on the interstate it starts climbing.
Today i took it out for a drive for about 20 minutes and once again it hit 225 degrees. I took it back to the garage and poped the hood and went to grab the hood latch to open it, it was so hot that it almost burnt my hand. I reached down inbetween the intercooler and radiator and it was burning hot. You could not hold you hand in there for more then about 5 seconds b4 you had to remove it.
I am pretty sure i know the answer to my problems is that the FMIC is blocking all the cool air from the radiator, so i need to find some way to get more air to the radiator. What options do i have to fix this. I would like to avoid something as radicool as doing a V-mount, all though that would be pretty awesome. How good is my Permacool fan? It dosn't seem like it moves a lot of air so maybe i could just try a better fan. Thanks for any advice that you might have...
Steve
The problem i am having is mostly during cruising speeds down the interstate. I noticed that my stock temp guage on my old motor would go about 2/3 of the way up, but i thought the guage was probably off. When i put in the new motor, i installed aftermarked guages including a water temp guage. I installed the sensor in the front iron under where the AC braket was originally. Now that i have accurate temp guage to go by, while cruising, i will hit 225 deg. This is way more then i would like it to be of course. I have installed a 180 degree thermostat with a 1/4" hole, but it did not help much. If you let the car idle, it will stay right at 180 degrees, but as soon as you get on the interstate it starts climbing.
Today i took it out for a drive for about 20 minutes and once again it hit 225 degrees. I took it back to the garage and poped the hood and went to grab the hood latch to open it, it was so hot that it almost burnt my hand. I reached down inbetween the intercooler and radiator and it was burning hot. You could not hold you hand in there for more then about 5 seconds b4 you had to remove it.
I am pretty sure i know the answer to my problems is that the FMIC is blocking all the cool air from the radiator, so i need to find some way to get more air to the radiator. What options do i have to fix this. I would like to avoid something as radicool as doing a V-mount, all though that would be pretty awesome. How good is my Permacool fan? It dosn't seem like it moves a lot of air so maybe i could just try a better fan. Thanks for any advice that you might have...
Steve
05-10-05, 01:41 PM
#2
Former Moderator. RIP Icemark.
Fan won't change any temp at all above 45 MPH, except to lower them if the fan is facing the wrong way.
I would be looking at air flow through the rad. Do you have all the covers in place or modified.
Your high temps at high speed suggest that the lower engine cover is probably missing (the plastic panel that goes between the bottom of the bumper to back near the oil pan) as well as a front upper cover (between the bumper and the top of the support just in front of the rad).
Also what are you using for a themostat??? you should be using the OEM one as it is a 180 degree thermostat, and many aftermarket ones do not have the proper bypasses built in.
and third I would be looking at the water pump. Is this the same water pump as the last motor. Try returning back to a stock pully to see if the aftermarket pully is not turning the water pump enough. Generally on street driven vehicles underdrive pullies are not sufficent to drive the stock water pump.
I would be looking at air flow through the rad. Do you have all the covers in place or modified.
Your high temps at high speed suggest that the lower engine cover is probably missing (the plastic panel that goes between the bottom of the bumper to back near the oil pan) as well as a front upper cover (between the bumper and the top of the support just in front of the rad).
Also what are you using for a themostat??? you should be using the OEM one as it is a 180 degree thermostat, and many aftermarket ones do not have the proper bypasses built in.
and third I would be looking at the water pump. Is this the same water pump as the last motor. Try returning back to a stock pully to see if the aftermarket pully is not turning the water pump enough. Generally on street driven vehicles underdrive pullies are not sufficent to drive the stock water pump.
05-10-05, 01:54 PM
#3
I R SAD PANDA W/O BAW
225*F is pretty damn high. I wouldnt even drive the car with temps that high. With a greddy fmic, koyo rad, stock clutch fan, OEM tstat, cut up front bumper and all stock shrouding I only hit 88*C (about 188*F) on the freeway.
Like icemark said at speeds that high it's more of an issue with forcing air to go through the rad.
Like icemark said at speeds that high it's more of an issue with forcing air to go through the rad.
05-10-05, 02:02 PM
#4
Originally Posted by Icemark
Fan won't change any temp at all above 45 MPH, except to lower them if the fan is facing the wrong way.
I would be looking at air flow through the rad. Do you have all the covers in place or modified.
Your high temps at high speed suggest that the lower engine cover is probably missing (the plastic panel that goes between the bottom of the bumper to back near the oil pan) as well as a front upper cover (between the bumper and the top of the support just in front of the rad).
Also what are you using for a themostat??? you should be using the OEM one as it is a 180 degree thermostat, and many aftermarket ones do not have the proper bypasses built in.
and third I would be looking at the water pump. Is this the same water pump as the last motor. Try returning back to a stock pully to see if the aftermarket pully is not turning the water pump enough. Generally on street driven vehicles underdrive pullies are not sufficent to drive the stock water pump.
I would be looking at air flow through the rad. Do you have all the covers in place or modified.
Your high temps at high speed suggest that the lower engine cover is probably missing (the plastic panel that goes between the bottom of the bumper to back near the oil pan) as well as a front upper cover (between the bumper and the top of the support just in front of the rad).
Also what are you using for a themostat??? you should be using the OEM one as it is a 180 degree thermostat, and many aftermarket ones do not have the proper bypasses built in.
and third I would be looking at the water pump. Is this the same water pump as the last motor. Try returning back to a stock pully to see if the aftermarket pully is not turning the water pump enough. Generally on street driven vehicles underdrive pullies are not sufficent to drive the stock water pump.
The lower tray is in place, but the uppper one is gone, the upper one didn't even cross my mind for some reason.
The thermostat i got from advance, i think it is made by Stant if i recall. I thought the stock one was 190 degrees?
It is the same water pump as the last motor. I thought on a water pump, it either works or it dosn't? I think i will go back to the stock pulley. It was affecting my charging system as well.
05-10-05, 02:08 PM
#5
Originally Posted by ilike2eatricers
225*F is pretty damn high. I wouldnt even drive the car with temps that high. With a greddy fmic, koyo rad, stock clutch fan, OEM tstat, cut up front bumper and all stock shrouding I only hit 88*C (about 188*F) on the freeway.
Like icemark said at speeds that high it's more of an issue with forcing air to go through the rad.
Like icemark said at speeds that high it's more of an issue with forcing air to go through the rad.
Yeah, it was freaking me out. I just drove it enough to get it home. I was watching the guage like a hawk. Where is your coolant sensor located at?
05-10-05, 03:37 PM
#6
I R SAD PANDA W/O BAW
I have an aftermarket blitz electric temp gauge located in the stock location on the block (I believe it is the hottest point in the entire cooling system) right next to the oil pressure sender.
I'd switch to an OEM tstat rated at 180*F and also check the pressure cap. I'd check the waterpump also for water leaking from the weephole.
I'd switch to an OEM tstat rated at 180*F and also check the pressure cap. I'd check the waterpump also for water leaking from the weephole.
Last edited by ilike2eatricers; 05-10-05 at 03:40 PM.
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05-10-05, 06:20 PM
#8
Former Moderator. RIP Icemark.
Originally Posted by Smoken'
The lower tray is in place, but the uppper one is gone, the upper one didn't even cross my mind for some reason.
The thermostat i got from advance, i think it is made by Stant if i recall. I thought the stock one was 190 degrees?
It is the same water pump as the last motor. I thought on a water pump, it either works or it dosn't? I think i will go back to the stock pulley. It was affecting my charging system as well.
The thermostat i got from advance, i think it is made by Stant if i recall. I thought the stock one was 190 degrees?
It is the same water pump as the last motor. I thought on a water pump, it either works or it dosn't? I think i will go back to the stock pulley. It was affecting my charging system as well.
Its pretty funny the number of other members here that have found that out, and posted that just replacing the Stant with an OEM thermostat solved all their over heating problems.
as far as the water pump, no the statement of
it either works or it dosn't?
Last edited by Icemark; 05-10-05 at 06:22 PM.
05-10-05, 09:35 PM
#9
Lives on the Forum
Wow, if you're reading 225*F at the front iron, on the driver's side, then your temps are even higher than that at the stock sensor location, because the coolant hasn't even flowed past the rotor housings' combustion areas yet at your present aftermarket location.
Water pump impellers can get corroded and basically disappear on you, resulting on practically no flow at all, so yeah, it would be a good thing to check out, especially if its got more than about 75K miles on it...
Water pump impellers can get corroded and basically disappear on you, resulting on practically no flow at all, so yeah, it would be a good thing to check out, especially if its got more than about 75K miles on it...
05-10-05, 11:32 PM
#10
Locust of the apocalypse
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I think your problems lie in several places.
1) the Stant thermostat
2) the combo of the FMIC and missing the upper baffles... Speedmachine sells the fc3s.org baffles and aerodyne makes a nice aluminum one, and there are several other guys that make them
3) underdrive pulley and old waterpump.... and yes.. the underdrive pully will affect your charging system especially at idle.
As for the Evans NPT+... that is the friggin schiznit.... Zkeller Dynoed his single turbo third gen at KDR at 475HP... and the friggin coolant temps never crested 200 (i think 197 was the highest) Its expensive and a PITA to flush a system out that has regular coolant in to put the evans in... but the stuff works.. and it has veirtually no pressure.. you can take the rad cap off when the car is at operating temp and nothing happens....... the ideal situation.... (which i f'ed up and didn't take advantage of) is to fill a newly rebuild, dry motor up with evans from the getgo...
1) the Stant thermostat
2) the combo of the FMIC and missing the upper baffles... Speedmachine sells the fc3s.org baffles and aerodyne makes a nice aluminum one, and there are several other guys that make them
3) underdrive pulley and old waterpump.... and yes.. the underdrive pully will affect your charging system especially at idle.
As for the Evans NPT+... that is the friggin schiznit.... Zkeller Dynoed his single turbo third gen at KDR at 475HP... and the friggin coolant temps never crested 200 (i think 197 was the highest) Its expensive and a PITA to flush a system out that has regular coolant in to put the evans in... but the stuff works.. and it has veirtually no pressure.. you can take the rad cap off when the car is at operating temp and nothing happens....... the ideal situation.... (which i f'ed up and didn't take advantage of) is to fill a newly rebuild, dry motor up with evans from the getgo...
05-11-05, 02:26 PM
#11
Today, i pulled off the water pump and inspected it. The fins on it appeard to be fine, and the water pump is dry where the weap hole is. I had a replacement pump ready but i didn't install it because the old one appears to be in working condition. Next I put my factory pulley back on the crank and installed the uppper cover in front of the radiator. Took the car out for a test drive and it hit about 215 degrees, but i made it back b4 it got any higher.
Next i am going to gut my thermastat and install my factor fan. I am starting to get a little scared that there might be something internally wrong with the engine. I rented a pressure tester but it didn't have the right fittings to do the test.
What do you guys think? Is anybody thinking that i might have an internal leak? or is that just me freaking out....
Next i am going to gut my thermastat and install my factor fan. I am starting to get a little scared that there might be something internally wrong with the engine. I rented a pressure tester but it didn't have the right fittings to do the test.
What do you guys think? Is anybody thinking that i might have an internal leak? or is that just me freaking out....
05-11-05, 02:56 PM
#12
Former Moderator. RIP Icemark.
Originally Posted by Smoken'
Next i am going to gut my thermastat and install my factor fan.
And the fan only comes into play at speeds less than 40 MPH... above 40 MPH it doesn't matter if you have 100 electric fans or just one OEM fan... .So going back to the factory fan will make no differnece above 40-45 MPH (unless your electric fan is wired wrong).
05-11-05, 05:26 PM
#15
Originally Posted by WAYNE88N/A
Smoken, have you checked your timing lately?
Have you removed any of the smaller coolant hose runs? The heater hoses?
Have you removed any of the smaller coolant hose runs? The heater hoses?
The timing is right.... I dont really understand your second question. I do not have a BAC so i have coolant hose running from the rear iron to the water pump. I have it looped under the intake, but i remember checking to make sure that it wasn't getting pinched by the upper intake before i installed the motor.
05-11-05, 06:19 PM
#17
I didn't have an oem replacement laying around this evening so i just gutted one. It is still doing the same thing.
I have had low compression the whole time, I was thinking that i just need to get some miles on her and she would gain compression, but i have not been able to do so. I have to get coolant pressure tester, i'm thinking i have problems. It dosn't smoke, but i think it might be taking a little to much fluid. I'm not 100% sure about that because i have been into the coolant system so many times now, i dont know if i might have just not topped it off all the way, especially since i dont have a bleeder screw on the fluidyne.
With all of this said, my previous engine ran about the same temperature according to my factory temp guage. I dont remember what the temps were before i installed the FMIC, electric fan, and radiator.
I have had low compression the whole time, I was thinking that i just need to get some miles on her and she would gain compression, but i have not been able to do so. I have to get coolant pressure tester, i'm thinking i have problems. It dosn't smoke, but i think it might be taking a little to much fluid. I'm not 100% sure about that because i have been into the coolant system so many times now, i dont know if i might have just not topped it off all the way, especially since i dont have a bleeder screw on the fluidyne.
With all of this said, my previous engine ran about the same temperature according to my factory temp guage. I dont remember what the temps were before i installed the FMIC, electric fan, and radiator.
05-11-05, 06:28 PM
#18
I R SAD PANDA W/O BAW
Do you have your coolant level sensor connected and working? It's not too hard to tell if you are low on coolant or leaking it somewhere with that sensor connected.
05-11-05, 06:32 PM
#19
Former Moderator. RIP Icemark.
Originally Posted by Smoken'
I didn't have an oem replacement laying around this evening so i just gutted one. It is still doing the same thing.
PUT THE RIGHT THERMOSTAT IN THE CAR
05-13-05, 07:43 PM
#20
My oem thermastat has been ordered but it wont be in till monday. Today i went out to mess with it a little more. It was parked out side so i started the car and pulled it into the garage. The car only ran for about 30 seconds. It was still cold. When i poped the cap on the thermostat housing, it pretty much blew up. It was under pressure. I know that this isn't normal and it sholdn't have pressure when cold.
Is this because i am running with a cored thermostat? I have a couple theories...
A) With a cored themastat, there is very little to regulate the flow of the coolant. It had built up pressure because of the water pump spinning, and no thermastat to slow the flow down.
B) I have a block in the system somewhere, maybe my radiator or something?
C) Exhaust is venting into the coolant system.
To test my last theory, i removed the water pump belt and started the car. I had already removed the radiator, so i couldn't check for bubbles. Instead i held my hand up to the upper and lower radiator hose. No pressure was noticable.
One more questions. What is the proper way to bleed the coolant system when you dont have a bleeder screw on the radiator?
Is this because i am running with a cored thermostat? I have a couple theories...
A) With a cored themastat, there is very little to regulate the flow of the coolant. It had built up pressure because of the water pump spinning, and no thermastat to slow the flow down.
B) I have a block in the system somewhere, maybe my radiator or something?
C) Exhaust is venting into the coolant system.
To test my last theory, i removed the water pump belt and started the car. I had already removed the radiator, so i couldn't check for bubbles. Instead i held my hand up to the upper and lower radiator hose. No pressure was noticable.
One more questions. What is the proper way to bleed the coolant system when you dont have a bleeder screw on the radiator?
05-16-05, 04:37 PM
#22
Well, i have a couple of things to say. It seemes to be ok now. I did a couple of different things.
I tried taking my front bumper off thinking that maybe the radiator wasn't getting enough air. This seemed to work pretty well. The cars temperature varied greatly depending on the climate temperature. At night it would run 170 degrees. During the day it would run between 180-225 degrees depending on the speed of the car.
I finally got my OEM thermostat in today. I also put in my stock cooling fan and a bottle of Redline water weter. At idle and at cruising speeds, its stays rock solid at 180 degrees. I still haven't put my front bumper back on the car yet, but i think i have finally gotten the temperature under control. Thanks for all your help.
Steve
I tried taking my front bumper off thinking that maybe the radiator wasn't getting enough air. This seemed to work pretty well. The cars temperature varied greatly depending on the climate temperature. At night it would run 170 degrees. During the day it would run between 180-225 degrees depending on the speed of the car.
I finally got my OEM thermostat in today. I also put in my stock cooling fan and a bottle of Redline water weter. At idle and at cruising speeds, its stays rock solid at 180 degrees. I still haven't put my front bumper back on the car yet, but i think i have finally gotten the temperature under control. Thanks for all your help.
Steve
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