Osaka Kasuga

My 1990 RX7 Convertible overheated and blew it's seals last summer (i.e. no compression) so instead of getting the engine rebuilt I bought a 1990 Turbo II longblock engine (with intercooler, Alt, PS, Turbo, Sensors, and Manifolds) and manual TII tranny. It was after this that I found out about other things I may need. some people say I need to change out everything, other lists are shorter. I have even read on a few sites that the convertible ECU and harness will work fine with the TII setup (where-as the coupe n/a ecu and harness need to be swaped). I've also heard that with the TII transmission I will need a new driveshaft, LSD (I already have an LSD because the verts all came with them), and halfshafts - why?, are they a different size than their N/A counterparts? If size is different I have another question - My N/A Transmission got new race spec gears installed about a 1200 miles ago. would it still need to be replaced with TII tranny? My Main Question however is this: Aside from the obvious things like a TII Hood what else is absolutly NEEDED to make the swap work? THX!

Juiceh

iTrader: (4)

My 1991 vert did NOT have an LSD. The FAQ says no verts came with LSD. I did a full turbo swap, engine, tanny, rear end, ecu and engine harness and kept the airbag harness. The Vert ECU will run the TII motor but it won't see boost or retard timing under boost like a turbo ecu will, you can pop an engine that way. I drove my car 700 miles home after my swap with the NA ECU and didn't boost and stayed under 4k rpm didn't have an issue.

Here is some NA to TII swap info.

http://www.rotaryresurrection.com/ro...conversion.htm

Icemark

#1 No verts came with a LSD (please read the FAQ for FC sticky thread found at the top of this section)

#2 as far as harness and ECU being used on a Turbo motor, that only applies to the 88 convertible. Not to any of the S5 (89-92) models.

#3 to do it right, you will need (and this has been covered here a bunch of times) besides the motor: a Turbo Tranny (R type), turbo Clutch, Turbo Clutch slave cyl, a (89-91) Turbo flywheel (or aftermarket version of the same flywheel), a Turbo or automatic tranny starter, a 89-91 USA spec Turbo engine harness and ECU, a Turbo drive shaft, a Turbo rear end/differential assembly, Turbo tranny mounts, Turbo half shafts, Turbo boost sensor, and perhaps a custom downpipe.

To do it half assed, as a bare minumim just to get the car running, besides the motor you will need a a 89-91 USA spec Turbo engine harness and ECU, Turbo Air Flow Meter (AFM), Turbo intake duct (TID) and a turbo down pipe. Then you would use the existing non turbo Flywheel, existing non turbo driveline. The problem with this is that the S5 verts are already overweight pigs of a RX-7 and the stock components are nearing the maximum values on the stock non turbo motor. Add in another 100 lbs and the overweight body and you will be exeeeding the ability of the stock non turbo parts to run without breaking.

So if you go the half *** route, then you should expect to break driveline parts regularly.

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

????race spec gears???in your n/a tranny????

sorry I don't quite follow

Icemark

Yeah I figured he was barking or maybe they used peened gears...

Either way he'll just rip them up if he uses them with a S5 Turbo motor.

Osaka Kasuga

No LSD in vert huh? I guess Mazda was feeling generous when they built mine, cuz it's there(however, my 86 GXL and 88 coupe do not have it) . About the only things it doesn't have are an adjustable steering wheel, turbo motor, and ABS(it did have an airbag, but I removed it and installed 4-point harnesses) As far as your lack of knowledge is concerned - race spec gears = same used in 2nd gen rx7 le mans race car(ran 24 hour race in 1994).

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

After two posts, you're not doing too well. If you intend to sucessfully turbo your vert and get info to do so on this board, a little humility is the first order of business. A complete read of the FAQ and a search before asking questions is your second task. That should keep you busy (and silent) for several months.

If, however, you are prepared to school Icemark and classicauto, then you really don't need any of the info or advice of this board.

Lots of luck Grasshopper, your gonna need it.

You're also gonna need a subscription to the Apex Seal of the Month Club.*




*See eriksseven for details.

Icemark

Well your race spec gears still means nothing to anyone here. Are they hardend?? Peened??? what the heck do you mean by race spec gears??? Perhaps you mean the same gear ratio???

And I would be skepctical that a dogmission gear set (as used in the car you claim) would even work in a standard M50 tranny as found on the manual tranny verts.

Perhaps you do not know what a LSD is, as the 86-88 GXL model all came with a LSD, yet you claim yours did not...

If you had a LSD from the factory in your vert (which you do not) it would be a viscous style, and not have a LSD Tag.

What makes you think you have a LSD???

Ronin Rotary

Yep, no 'verts came from the factory with a LSD. Maybe he added it aftermarket

Osaka Kasuga

LSD, Positrac, Limited Slip Differencial, whatever you want to call it it's in there. I've worked on cars for 12 years (rotary for almost 2). I know what a limited-slip looks like. Also with the original 160 hp I could launch at redline (as the buzzer is going off) and the tires wouldn't even chirp (even if I hadn't known it was there that's kind of a hint). I did find some useful Information though in another forum, a guy named Kabooski posted a parts and a how to list at: http://www.teamfc3s.org/forum/showth...p?threadid=106 that makes much more sence than Icemark's. I'll probably mostly go with what he said, he doesn't seem nearly as pompous and he seems to know a little more about what an N/A drivetrain is actually capable of (Have a little faith in your N/A parts). In truth, all I was looking for were suggestions and alternative methods to do the project (I already had a general idea how I was going to do it). No matter how much one knows it is always wise to remain humble and seek the advice of others. More suggestions are always welcome. Thank you.

Peyman

iTrader: (2)

Looks like someone just got their *** handed to them by ^

Icemark

I am glad you finally woke up and got a clue and actually started searching instead of just posting.

It shows that you are not as clueless as I think.

On the other hand you mention a Positrac (which of course is GMs brand name for a limted slip differntial- calling a LSD a Positrac is like calling all refrigerators Kenmores instead of refrigerators- but then if you have actually been workling on cars anywhere but under a shade tree you might already know that). But the fact that you can drop the clutch at 8000 RPM and the tires don't cherp means nothing. You have a heavy car and limited power. So tell us what does a viscous clutch LSD look like (as those were the only LSD's available from Mazda in the US for the S5) since you say you know what a LSD looks like.

As you mentioned there are some people using a non-turbo driveline with a turbo motor. Again as I mentioned it is half assed. But then if you want half assed car, by all means go ahead. I don't think you will find anyone long term using a non turbo driveline and any of the people that regularly do these swaps will talk you out of it. As they know better.

And your lack of answering the simple question of your race gears again points to you sounding like you heard something someone said and thought it was cool. Posers should probably best post at the other forums.

KompressorLOgic

iTrader: (6)

lol if you can launch an rx-7 even a heavy vert at 8K and not even chirp the tires, then yer clutch must be toast, or you are retarded....

Osaka Kasuga

As far as my transmission gearing is concerned, I think I covered that quite well in my second post, your confusion and skepticism are not my problem. Perhaps less boasting an more reading might help clear some of that up. To put it simply, I and two other people installed the tranny; know my own car.
Concerning the LSD: WOW! you knew that Positrac was GM's brand name for an LSD... If you also knew that HEMI was a Dodge brand name for an engine with hemi-spherical heads you get a cookie... I bet your mommy is proud. I have attached some images for those that don't know what an LSD Looks like (Mine's got a big fat 8" gear and btw just to clarify - the objects in the first two images are located inside the rear differencial which looks kinda like the 3rd picture, but not quite; I think that differencial is from an S3, but don't quote me on that ).
I do have to make one confession however. I bought the car used 7 years ago and the LSD was installed at that time (so I assumed it was stock, maybe I was wrong). About 18 months ago that I hit a curb an busted one of my halfshafts (at which time, with great joy, I discovered the Limited-Slip).
I may just decide to use the TII tranny (Which if you remember from my first post, I do have just in case) and connect it to a Ford 9" w/LSD through a custom made driveshaft. Whatever I decide to do, I started this thread to ask for suggestions on how to do it and what others think I might need. If all I'm going to get is know-it-all's telling me (although they themselves have never seen my ride) what my car has and does not have; I'll be more than happy to take my inquery elsewhere. I may just ask some real mechanics. It seems that (at least for some people in this forum) those that name posers quickly might just be projecting.

bacek

if i were you i would go with the ford 9'' especially since you say you can make a custom driveshaft. my friend has a 9'' on his 350rwhp 68 mustang gtcs (bored to a 347). with an aftermarket like ford IF something goes wrong it is easily replaceable, and heck if you wanted to add more power you would already have the tranny and the rear end to do it.

rx007racer

If you jack you car up in the rear and spin the tire clockwise in theory the otherside should spin clockwise if you have LSD. If not then it will spin counterclockwise. so you can just go out and find out if you truly have LSD and stop argueing with everyone. Also I have tried this on my '88 Vert and found out that it is not LSD but yet when I do a burnout I always leave two skid marks and have never just left one. So even though it's not LSD I can hit "LSD" because of the torque I'm putting to the wheels. Remember not all LSD's always hit LSD they usually have sweet spots. For example my friends '86 Ford F150 is a Posi like rearend yet sometimes it leaves only one burnout mark. Hope this settles it for you and I'm pretty sure I'm right.

Osaka Kasuga

I'd like to thank bacek for his reply, finally someone gives a good example of the kind of responce I'm looking for, thank you. Also, btw, I found a picture of what my differencial looks like on the exterior included in the picture is 2 halfshafts if you also wanted to know what those looked like.

Osaka Kasuga

that is exactly what's in my car....
so is it an LSD differencial or not?

rick_tj

Are we post-whoring now, n00b?

KompressorLOgic

iTrader: (6)

Your no match for the power of GT-R

Icemark

Limited slip differentials use the same case as the conventional open differentials. So without you going out to the car, and actually testing or opening up the differential, there would be no way to tell.

I thought you said:
But again perhaps you were suggesting you know what a differential looks like.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

Thanks for the object lesson in humilty, noob.

BTW, that is a three and a half year old post.

Posers. Hmmm....funny you should mention that.

You have been given advice and info from some of the best and most knowledgeble people on this forum. You have been directed to some links,the FAQ and search as well as links to more information than you are able to absorb or apparantly understand. You are abrasive and disrespectful of good advice. You have apparently much more respect for advice you found on another forum.

Why are you still here then? You don't like it, leave.

You and a guy named Kabooski should just get all giggly and cuddly at: http://www.teamfc3s.org/forum/showt...hp?threadid=106#



See ya!

Osaka Kasuga

Under the advice of rx007racer I tried the test. I jacked up the back of my car and spun one of the wheels. Much to my lack of surprise, both wheels spin the same direction. hmmm... It's almost as if they are connected by something, I wonder what that could be....(look it might not be the norm, but facts don't lie, whether it's aftermarket or not I can't say, but it is LSD, it uses the same casing as the TII viscous style, and it was on there when I bought it used. Now that we've cleared that up....could I finally get some ideas on optional ways to do the TII swap (even if unconventional). Like I said In the beginning; I'd like to know basic ways of doing it (not half-assed like some have mentioned but basic). First laying out exactly what is needed - as Icemark already has (thank you for that) and moving on to the optional goodies now. The suggestion has been made in another forum to use the independant suspension from the GTO (thoughts on that?). That and ideas like the Ford 9" differencial are what I'm aiming for. If it's at all possible, could we maybe get beyond this pointless banter and try that now? please?

Ronin Rotary

You do know that the pumpkin on the Turbo with a LSD and a non turbo W/O a LSD is visually the same??? The only way to tell if it is a non turbo diff would be the half shaft thickness or the main gear itself (Turbo main gears are 8 inch and non turbo main gears are 7"). And you probably don't have a Visocus LSD as it normally takes about 1/2 to 3/4 of a revolution for the the opposite wheel to turn in sync. if it turns right away, then you probably have a Clutch type LSD from a 86-88 model or something aftermarket.

But if you did get a viscous LSD, you might also check the gear. You might have got lucky and someone swapped in a 4.3 LSD rear end from a 89-90 GTUs.

And unless you are running a V8 or plan on 500 HP, it would be a waste of time to use anything but stock parts.

Juiceh

iTrader: (4)

Dude, you stated that all verts came with LSD, this was just plain WRONG. That was what most of the arguement was about... When your error was pointed out you got over defensive. Your LSD diff was probably swapped in by a previous owner. End of debate.

Congrats, you have an LSD, your one step closer to a proper Turbo swap.

As for the ford 9" I've heard that its quite a bit heavier than the stock TII rear. So unless you really want to add extra weight to an already heavier rx7 then I would suggest stock parts. Unless your gonna have some crazy engine with tons of power and torque.