Complete tear down.......to the bare frame.
11-29-04, 11:12 AM
#1
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Complete tear down.......to the bare frame.
I'm into the idea of restoring cars and like many of you, I watch Speed and Spike TV's PowerBlock. I love seeing a car fully restored. A complete teardown and rebuild.
I know that the Rx7 isn't as 'classic' as a Corvette, Cuda or Camaro. But I want to build a rather extreme version of this car. And I feel that with as much work as I want to do to the engine, drivetrain and body; I should consider doing a full rebuild. Obvious reasons are to prevent rust and reinforce the frame.
Has anyone done this before or will I be the first to tackle this?
Other options, questions and opinions are welcome.
I know that the Rx7 isn't as 'classic' as a Corvette, Cuda or Camaro. But I want to build a rather extreme version of this car. And I feel that with as much work as I want to do to the engine, drivetrain and body; I should consider doing a full rebuild. Obvious reasons are to prevent rust and reinforce the frame.
Has anyone done this before or will I be the first to tackle this?
Other options, questions and opinions are welcome.
11-29-04, 11:24 AM
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Yes definately and like tie pilot said, take lots of pics and post em.
And why wouldnt our cars be worth it
(overhaulin has done some shitty cars too hehehe)
This is my ultimate idea. I would like to know if a body off is possible. Get her down to the subframe and build her back up. It would be great to see some more info or pics from anyone who has done this.
Terry
And why wouldnt our cars be worth it
(overhaulin has done some shitty cars too hehehe)This is my ultimate idea. I would like to know if a body off is possible. Get her down to the subframe and build her back up. It would be great to see some more info or pics from anyone who has done this.
Terry
11-29-04, 11:28 AM
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Its a wicked fun Job, Lots and lots of work.
]
My had full GXL interior etc, Now its gunmetal with a T2 swap front and rear end.
thats how it sorta looks now, but almost all put together.
Oh and a tip of advice.
What ever you planned on spending ( do your list etc. ) multiply it times 3 .
]
My had full GXL interior etc, Now its gunmetal with a T2 swap front and rear end.
thats how it sorta looks now, but almost all put together.
Oh and a tip of advice.
What ever you planned on spending ( do your list etc. ) multiply it times 3 .
11-29-04, 11:31 AM
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the good part, is as you acutally put everything together.
from brake lines to tranny, to rear end to suspension to sway bars to electrical etc. You know its been done good ( not that im a pro but I did spend alot of time. And also LOTS of help from freinds )
from brake lines to tranny, to rear end to suspension to sway bars to electrical etc. You know its been done good ( not that im a pro but I did spend alot of time. And also LOTS of help from freinds )
11-29-04, 11:34 AM
#6
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
You should consider doing welds and reinforcement on the frame to increase body rigidity (unless you already put it back together)... you can never have a chassis that's too stiff... unless you add 150 pounds with what you used to stiffen it... lol.
And you could probably find a way to take off unessicary weight if you've gone as far as stripping the car.
And you could probably find a way to take off unessicary weight if you've gone as far as stripping the car.
11-29-04, 11:38 AM
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Ill borrow the thread sorry.
The car didnt really need to much reinforcements. I got front and rear strut bars. Will probably make the car stiff enough. I do plan on making a bottom X bar for the body.
As of weight savings I ran out of ideas. I didnt want to cut anything that needed to be there for rigidity.
these are the strut bars, they have multiple tie down points that make it a littel bit stiffer.
The car didnt really need to much reinforcements. I got front and rear strut bars. Will probably make the car stiff enough. I do plan on making a bottom X bar for the body.
As of weight savings I ran out of ideas. I didnt want to cut anything that needed to be there for rigidity.
these are the strut bars, they have multiple tie down points that make it a littel bit stiffer.
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11-29-04, 12:45 PM
#9
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Prepare for a huge headache. 
I'm only restoring everything in the engine bay, including paint, and its a big pain in the ***. But I'll be glad when its done. My advice, since the FC has more electronics than the older muscle cars, is to do one thing at a time so you don't get loss. I have a bunch of small bags that are labeled from tearing apart the car.
Anyways, you should contact or look up cymfc3s's old posts. He restored and built up a great looking TII and the attention to detail is amazing. Everything was redone from the ground up.
I'm only restoring everything in the engine bay, including paint, and its a big pain in the ***. But I'll be glad when its done. My advice, since the FC has more electronics than the older muscle cars, is to do one thing at a time so you don't get loss. I have a bunch of small bags that are labeled from tearing apart the car.
Anyways, you should contact or look up cymfc3s's old posts. He restored and built up a great looking TII and the attention to detail is amazing. Everything was redone from the ground up.
11-29-04, 01:04 PM
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Heres the pics, it seems to me acting up my server.
those are old, a few months ago.
tie pilot.
Its a pita when everything is apart. But I did a list to know where to start. the first thing was reconditioning the rear subframe ( sanded, grinded pirmed and paintedit ) and install new LSD . then suspension brakes lines hubs etc.
those are old, a few months ago.
tie pilot.
Its a pita when everything is apart. But I did a list to know where to start. the first thing was reconditioning the rear subframe ( sanded, grinded pirmed and paintedit ) and install new LSD . then suspension brakes lines hubs etc.
Last edited by FC3S.USD; 11-29-04 at 01:08 PM.
11-29-04, 01:33 PM
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FC3S.USD, do you have any more pics of that grey car in your avatar? Also, did you document your tear down?
My Haynes manual is 'based on a complete teardown' but I'm guessing it's not as thorough as it could/should be.
Let me give some info on the car and idea for the project. I don't plan on it being finished in less than 2 years (sadly). Since it will most likely take me that long to do, I want to put my downtime to good use. The plan for this car is more than what I really should do. I picked the car up for $500. The front buper is missing but there's very little damage to the frame. The original owner drove it off the road and ripped the bumper up really bad and just removed it because the car stoped running. I got it with the sole intention of rebuilding it. Here's a general overview of what I want. The car will most likely be black with a wide body kit, 18x9s in front and 18x11s in the rear, some new interior pieces (gauges, roll cage, Sparcos etc...), S5 tails, brembos, 20b with GT42, new drivetrain and all the other parts like fuel pumps, lines, filters etc..... There's alot more that I'm not listing that is listed on my excel spreadsheet.
My fear of doing this is loosing pieces or having some left over when I'm done. lol Another concern is with the interior, airconditioning and electrical wiring. Somehow I know I'll get all that stuff messed up.
My Haynes manual is 'based on a complete teardown' but I'm guessing it's not as thorough as it could/should be.
Let me give some info on the car and idea for the project. I don't plan on it being finished in less than 2 years (sadly). Since it will most likely take me that long to do, I want to put my downtime to good use. The plan for this car is more than what I really should do. I picked the car up for $500. The front buper is missing but there's very little damage to the frame. The original owner drove it off the road and ripped the bumper up really bad and just removed it because the car stoped running. I got it with the sole intention of rebuilding it. Here's a general overview of what I want. The car will most likely be black with a wide body kit, 18x9s in front and 18x11s in the rear, some new interior pieces (gauges, roll cage, Sparcos etc...), S5 tails, brembos, 20b with GT42, new drivetrain and all the other parts like fuel pumps, lines, filters etc..... There's alot more that I'm not listing that is listed on my excel spreadsheet.
My fear of doing this is loosing pieces or having some left over when I'm done. lol Another concern is with the interior, airconditioning and electrical wiring. Somehow I know I'll get all that stuff messed up.
11-29-04, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan H
Anyways, you should contact or look up cymfc3s's old posts. He restored and built up a great looking TII and the attention to detail is amazing. Everything was redone from the ground up.
11-29-04, 02:17 PM
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I do have alot of pictures ( i think around 500 or more ) from rear end tear down to suspension installation , polishing intercooler and other stuff.
If you have questions i can help you out.
You project is quite good. If i had the $$ i would of done that. BUt as im in school still ( damn university sucks all my money ) I couldnt afford any better. Im quite happy with how it is right now.
Oh if your getting a 20b put some cash aside for a rebuild just in case
. before you drop it in. Also you need a T2 tranny, and new flywheel etc . See these little things add up FAST !!!!.
oh the car in my avatar is not minu unfortunatly its from RE in japan. BUt i really like it
If you have questions i can help you out.
You project is quite good. If i had the $$ i would of done that. BUt as im in school still ( damn university sucks all my money ) I couldnt afford any better. Im quite happy with how it is right now.
Oh if your getting a 20b put some cash aside for a rebuild just in case
. before you drop it in. Also you need a T2 tranny, and new flywheel etc . See these little things add up FAST !!!!. oh the car in my avatar is not minu unfortunatly its from RE in japan. BUt i really like it
11-29-04, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by FC3S.USD
Oh if your getting a 20b put some cash aside for a rebuild just in case . before you drop it in. Also you need a T2 tranny, and new flywheel etc . See these little things add up FAST !!!!.
. before you drop it in. Also you need a T2 tranny, and new flywheel etc . See these little things add up FAST !!!!.I won't be using a T2 tranny, I'll snap it the first day I have it. And I won't be installing anything until I'm 100% satisfied with it. The 20b will be rebuilt with a street port and other necessary mods to handle and easily put over 600 to the wheel. I won't accept less.
11-29-04, 03:53 PM
#15
knowledge junkie
The main appeal of a FULL "Concourse" nut-up restore to me would be:
1) weight savings
- use dynomat instead of thick insulation
- use c/f or fiberglass fenders
- use c/f or fiberglass hood
- c/f or fiberglass dash
- replace heavy front bumper with lightweight brace
- c/f or fiberglass trunk lid (convertible) or lexan rear window (coupe)
- c/f, fiberglass, or lexan clear moonroof
- replace heavy rear A arms with aluminum (custom work, not current available)
- replace heavy rear subframe, front sub-brace (convertible), cross member with lightweight aluminum (custom work, not currently avaiable)
- lighweight seats (8x adjustable + lumbar)
- eliminate rear cargo compartments
- carbon fiber driveshaft
- lexan
- convert to manual steering rack (weekend driver only)
- cleanup rear hatch stuff
2) DO IT RIGHT - fix all the little stuff mazda did for $$$ savings
- new custom wiring harness to hide wires, remove unused wires, no "dangling" wires
- use better materials for leather interior, dash, console, etc..
- lightweight sound dead-ining inside doors - better stereo
- weld any "rusty seams", remove unused chassis holes, remove un-used rubber plugs
- real gauges with real measurement scale
- tar & paint spray under-coating
- tuck exhaust better, remove useless exhaust hangers
- better wire management
3) Looks / appeal
- properly paint engine, drivetrain, suspension, etc...
- cleanup engine bay, showoff engine
- improve seam tightness & allignment
- better paint job
- custom rear hatch (lightweight sub & box, nice looking hatch cover, remove useless carpet & paint it pretty)
- 2-tone interior
- different dash color
- better leather
- better sound system
4) Performance
- move engine back / enlarge transmission tunnel for 3-4 rotor engine to fit behind steering rack
- weld all body seams
- non-obtrusive larger fenders for same sized tires front & rear
- fix rear sublink so it WILL allow OEM caster allignment with a 0.5 - 2" drop
- move battery for improved weight distribution
- rear crossbrace under car
- front & rear strut & body bracing
- replace DTSS HUB with eliminator bushings ... or buy a new DTSS hub
1) weight savings
- use dynomat instead of thick insulation
- use c/f or fiberglass fenders
- use c/f or fiberglass hood
- c/f or fiberglass dash
- replace heavy front bumper with lightweight brace
- c/f or fiberglass trunk lid (convertible) or lexan rear window (coupe)
- c/f, fiberglass, or lexan clear moonroof
- replace heavy rear A arms with aluminum (custom work, not current available)
- replace heavy rear subframe, front sub-brace (convertible), cross member with lightweight aluminum (custom work, not currently avaiable)
- lighweight seats (8x adjustable + lumbar)
- eliminate rear cargo compartments
- carbon fiber driveshaft
- lexan
- convert to manual steering rack (weekend driver only)
- cleanup rear hatch stuff
2) DO IT RIGHT - fix all the little stuff mazda did for $$$ savings
- new custom wiring harness to hide wires, remove unused wires, no "dangling" wires
- use better materials for leather interior, dash, console, etc..
- lightweight sound dead-ining inside doors - better stereo
- weld any "rusty seams", remove unused chassis holes, remove un-used rubber plugs
- real gauges with real measurement scale
- tar & paint spray under-coating
- tuck exhaust better, remove useless exhaust hangers
- better wire management
3) Looks / appeal
- properly paint engine, drivetrain, suspension, etc...
- cleanup engine bay, showoff engine
- improve seam tightness & allignment
- better paint job
- custom rear hatch (lightweight sub & box, nice looking hatch cover, remove useless carpet & paint it pretty)
- 2-tone interior
- different dash color
- better leather
- better sound system
4) Performance
- move engine back / enlarge transmission tunnel for 3-4 rotor engine to fit behind steering rack
- weld all body seams
- non-obtrusive larger fenders for same sized tires front & rear
- fix rear sublink so it WILL allow OEM caster allignment with a 0.5 - 2" drop
- move battery for improved weight distribution
- rear crossbrace under car
- front & rear strut & body bracing
- replace DTSS HUB with eliminator bushings ... or buy a new DTSS hub
11-29-04, 04:21 PM
#16
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I love advice number 4 )
I actually tried to do everything I could. Just that somethings are too much $$ for that extra 5 lbs less. But eventually i would like to do that.
I actually tried to do everything I could. Just that somethings are too much $$ for that extra 5 lbs less. But eventually i would like to do that.
11-29-04, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by vaughnc
The main appeal of a FULL "Concourse" nut-up restore to me would be:
1) weight savings
- use dynomat instead of thick insulation
- use c/f or fiberglass fenders
- use c/f or fiberglass hood
- c/f or fiberglass dash
- replace heavy front bumper with lightweight brace
- c/f or fiberglass trunk lid (convertible) or lexan rear window (coupe)
- c/f, fiberglass, or lexan clear moonroof
- replace heavy rear A arms with aluminum (custom work, not current available)
- replace heavy rear subframe, front sub-brace (convertible), cross member with lightweight aluminum (custom work, not currently avaiable)
- lighweight seats (8x adjustable + lumbar)
- eliminate rear cargo compartments
- carbon fiber driveshaft
- lexan
- convert to manual steering rack (weekend driver only)
- cleanup rear hatch stuff
2) DO IT RIGHT - fix all the little stuff mazda did for $$$ savings
- new custom wiring harness to hide wires, remove unused wires, no "dangling" wires
- use better materials for leather interior, dash, console, etc..
- lightweight sound dead-ining inside doors - better stereo
- weld any "rusty seams", remove unused chassis holes, remove un-used rubber plugs
- real gauges with real measurement scale
- tar & paint spray under-coating
- tuck exhaust better, remove useless exhaust hangers
- better wire management
3) Looks / appeal
- properly paint engine, drivetrain, suspension, etc...
- cleanup engine bay, showoff engine
- improve seam tightness & allignment
- better paint job
- custom rear hatch (lightweight sub & box, nice looking hatch cover, remove useless carpet & paint it pretty)
- 2-tone interior
- different dash color
- better leather
- better sound system
4) Performance
- move engine back / enlarge transmission tunnel for 3-4 rotor engine to fit behind steering rack
- weld all body seams
- non-obtrusive larger fenders for same sized tires front & rear
- fix rear sublink so it WILL allow OEM caster allignment with a 0.5 - 2" drop
- move battery for improved weight distribution
- rear crossbrace under car
- front & rear strut & body bracing
- replace DTSS HUB with eliminator bushings ... or buy a new DTSS hub
1) weight savings
- use dynomat instead of thick insulation
- use c/f or fiberglass fenders
- use c/f or fiberglass hood
- c/f or fiberglass dash
- replace heavy front bumper with lightweight brace
- c/f or fiberglass trunk lid (convertible) or lexan rear window (coupe)
- c/f, fiberglass, or lexan clear moonroof
- replace heavy rear A arms with aluminum (custom work, not current available)
- replace heavy rear subframe, front sub-brace (convertible), cross member with lightweight aluminum (custom work, not currently avaiable)
- lighweight seats (8x adjustable + lumbar)
- eliminate rear cargo compartments
- carbon fiber driveshaft
- lexan
- convert to manual steering rack (weekend driver only)
- cleanup rear hatch stuff
2) DO IT RIGHT - fix all the little stuff mazda did for $$$ savings
- new custom wiring harness to hide wires, remove unused wires, no "dangling" wires
- use better materials for leather interior, dash, console, etc..
- lightweight sound dead-ining inside doors - better stereo
- weld any "rusty seams", remove unused chassis holes, remove un-used rubber plugs
- real gauges with real measurement scale
- tar & paint spray under-coating
- tuck exhaust better, remove useless exhaust hangers
- better wire management
3) Looks / appeal
- properly paint engine, drivetrain, suspension, etc...
- cleanup engine bay, showoff engine
- improve seam tightness & allignment
- better paint job
- custom rear hatch (lightweight sub & box, nice looking hatch cover, remove useless carpet & paint it pretty)
- 2-tone interior
- different dash color
- better leather
- better sound system
4) Performance
- move engine back / enlarge transmission tunnel for 3-4 rotor engine to fit behind steering rack
- weld all body seams
- non-obtrusive larger fenders for same sized tires front & rear
- fix rear sublink so it WILL allow OEM caster allignment with a 0.5 - 2" drop
- move battery for improved weight distribution
- rear crossbrace under car
- front & rear strut & body bracing
- replace DTSS HUB with eliminator bushings ... or buy a new DTSS hub
Seriously though, weight saving is not my main concern. I have driven high hp cars before and the extra 200-400lbs doesn't mean too much to me. I like the feeling that I'm held on the road due to weight. I have witnessed friends flip their ultra light cars because they hit a bump or something in the road that caused them to flip. BUT, I will shave off some pounds here and there because I'll be adding a larger rear end, tranny, engine and turbo. If I add all of the items I want and fully complete the project, weigh it and it weighs the same as it did stock (wishing) then I'll be decently happy.
As far as the wiring. I already know I have some missing ends to repair on my wiring. Again, the front bumper was basicly torn off. So I have frayed wires in the engine bay. The interior is grey and in good shape. So I won't focus too much on it. I'll clean it and change the seats and gauges.
11-29-04, 07:00 PM
#19
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The big problem you're gonna face is the RX7 has no "frame" to do a body-off restoration. It's a little difficult to have it reinforced and coated if it isn 't there. The front and rear subframes unbolt from the unibody structure, and you can do what you want with them as far as restoring goes. But for the body the best you can do is sandblast or chemically strip the paint off, sand it and repaint it (of course filling in holes/seams etc. if you wish).
It's not an easy thing to do with a unibody car, and the "frame rails" stamped into the floorpan won't even hold the car up with a jack unless you distribute the load with a block - they collapse pretty easily.
Other than that, a cmopletely restored RX7 would be just as nice as any other restored car. Value is determined by what people would pay for it, so the market isn't going to be very good if you wanted to sell it. But if you just want to do it for yourself so YOU can enjoy it, then absolutely go for it.
It's not an easy thing to do with a unibody car, and the "frame rails" stamped into the floorpan won't even hold the car up with a jack unless you distribute the load with a block - they collapse pretty easily.
Other than that, a cmopletely restored RX7 would be just as nice as any other restored car. Value is determined by what people would pay for it, so the market isn't going to be very good if you wanted to sell it. But if you just want to do it for yourself so YOU can enjoy it, then absolutely go for it.
11-29-04, 08:13 PM
#20
knowledge junkie
Originally Posted by Crash Test Joey
... the RX7 has no "frame" to do a body-off restoration
11-29-04, 08:26 PM
#21
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If you are using cf or fiberglass body panels how do you weld them to the unibody? Are you suggesting covering the fiberglass dash with "real leather"? Just some conflicting ideas you got going there.
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12-02-04, 11:38 AM
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Hmmm...great info here anyone interested or in process or planning this type of project please keep posting info.
The "Car Rotisserie" method would be awesome but for most unrealistic, still though not beyond possibility. Like stated though it would never be economically worth it except to the owner cause our cars will never have a high value sadly.
Definately not worth it for a base model, perhaps for a rarer vesion or T2 or GTUs.
Dam Overhaulin for making it look like a day at the park hehehe...
Terry
The "Car Rotisserie" method would be awesome but for most unrealistic, still though not beyond possibility. Like stated though it would never be economically worth it except to the owner cause our cars will never have a high value sadly.
Definately not worth it for a base model, perhaps for a rarer vesion or T2 or GTUs.
Dam Overhaulin for making it look like a day at the park hehehe...
Terry