CrownPerformance508

iTrader: (1)

I'm looking at a suspension setup for road rally racing and track racing only no daily driving and i was looking at a buddy club system and an hks system what do you guys think

Roen

iTrader: (2)

how much do you want to spend?

This should probably be a thread in the Suspension section. We also have a lot of threads in that section already for you to read.

Evil Aviator

Based on your HKS and Buddy Club examples, I assume that you intend to build a car for drift/show rather than actual racing? If this is the case, then I would go for as much bling as possible, and maybe consider matching most of your performance parts with the same manufacturer and/or color scheme. See our drifting forum here:
https://www.rx7club.com/drifting-226/

If you intended to actually race, then I suggest joining Mazdaspeed Motorsports Development (free) and checking out the pricing on their full Stage II Koni/Eibach setup. Bilstein dampers are also popular as a simplified unit, and JRZ dampers are popular as a higher end item.
http://www.mazdamotorsports.com/weba...atalogId=10001
http://iscracing.net/2nd_Gen_Parts.htm
http://www.jrzusa.net/
See our racing forum here:
https://www.rx7club.com/race-car-tech-103/

Black91n/a

If you're talking about street driving with some track use then those are probably fine. I've seen dyno plots of the Buddy Club Racing Spec Damper, and while it's not bad, it's not great. They've got lots of adjustment range, but they're very linear, and even progressive at the soft end of their adjustment. They only get slightly digressive at stiffer settings. This will mean that to get proper control of body motions you'll be suffering from a bad ride and a loss of grip over uneven pavement.

Apparently HKS are really nice, but I've never seen a dyno of one.

Other ones to consider for street/track would be Tein Flex, they're a very good deal with good damping, great reliability, they can be rebuilt and revalved in the US, and they're not overly stiff like 95% of all FC coilovers. I run them and am very happy. For track use I'd reccomend going to a 7kg/mm in front. A 7 in front and 5 in the back gives a good balance for track work. It's plenty stiff, even for race tires. Any stiffer and you're probably giving up grip.

For real racing you'll want better shocks. Generally speaking steer away from the Japanese stuff there. JRZ, high end Konis, revlaved Bilsteins, Ohlins, Moton, Dynamic and such on are great. Revalved Bilsteins are great shocks, and a full setup with AWR strut tubes and so on is the best deal in the group. They're not externally adjustable, but if it's set up right, then you don't need them to be.

CrownPerformance508

iTrader: (1)

i was looking at the tein mono flex and the buddy club race spec everybody i talked to at the 2007 rotofest said they were good and the tein set i know is good one of my friends has the same ones with the edfc control and he loves it and i am making a strickly race car NO street use at all i have an mr2 for street racing i need high handling high quality suspension kits but this is the first rx7 i have ever owed or built and my company i just getting into the track racing seen we have always been a street racing and road rally company but as the economy progresses so must we as a company

Black91n/a

Someone needs to introduce you to some PUNCTUATION!

If you can afford it then get something like JRZ, Dynamic or high end Koni's (28XX).

Roen

iTrader: (2)

Moton, Ohlins, Penske should be added to that list.

For all out racecars, you should not get anything Japanese unless it's above $3k.

That is, if you can afford a true race suspension.

Honestly, from what you've told us about your track experience, you should stick to something basic like the Tein Flex, or Stance coilovers. It would be hard to appreciate any of the refinements and developments of an all-out race suspension. Your money is better spent getting on the track and gaining more seat time.

Black91n/a

Penske doesn't make struts as far as I can tell.

Roen

iTrader: (2)

Most Authorized Penske Dealers can make custom struts for you.

ilia

iTrader: (4)

What class are you hoping to run in? How competitive do you want to be?

A good set of dampers is important, and a nicely valved set from someone like Ground Control (with koni dampers) is a good help to going faster, but the bottom line is, unless you're in pro racing, driver skill is 10x more important than what your damper curve looks like. I've seen plenty of guys running "SHOW CAR ONLY" stances, megans, buddy clubs, and the like beat plenty of guys running Ohlins, Koni, and all that expensive "RACE CAR" stuff.

Buy your dampers to suit your desired class, and then worry about driving faster than the other guy, not about being able to swipe a bigger credit card than the other guy.

Just get some stances.

CrownPerformance508

iTrader: (1)

ok listen guys were not trying to be pro racers this is C class stuff not JGTC ok i asked for some constuctive critasism not some crap about punctuation or recamendations about going to the faq page some of you guys helped and i thank you for that but i might as well be asking a girl who drives a neon that her parents bought her but instead i asked you guys "the real RX7 people" so if you can help with my search for some quality suspension tips than great but if not then please dont say anything

Roen

iTrader: (2)

Well, you asked for advice on a race-only suspension, and my opinion is most of the japanese coilovers suck. Learn how to read a shock dyno and use that knowledge to analyze the dynos of each of the products that you are interested in.

If you're looking for an answer based on feel, that's kinda hard too, since everyone's feel is different. You could prefer a different turn-in behavior, or different throttle-on behavior.

If you just want a "good" japanese suspension, stick with Tein Flex. It's being used by members here and it has some decent reviews.

Personally, I hate adjustments that adjust both compression and rebound in lockstep (i.e. at the same time), so true double adjustables put you into the $2500 range.

As far punctuation and grammar, if it's hard to read, it's hard to understand and it's hard for me to answer. So, help me help you by making my life easier.

Black91n/a

Seriously, how hard is it to add in a comma and period here and there? You must be seriously disabled if that's too much effort. It makes it a lot harder to read and understand when your entire post is one huge run on sentence (well not really, a sentence implies that there's a capital letter at the start and a period at the end, you have neither). If we have to work at understanding you we're much less likely to read through it and go to the effort of replying, so it's in your best interest to make the tiny effort to write properly. Besides, it's good practice to write properly all the time, that way when it really matters, like at work or at school, then it'll be second nature. You will not be taken seriously in an academic or job setting if you write like a ten year old; they'll think you're an idiot.

If you want a detailed, helpful answer you must supply us with the required information, we're not psychic and we're not about to go and do a bunch of research on you to better understand what you want.

Getting mad at people who are tying to help you also doesn't help. You've gotten replies from some longtime and knowledgable people who are trying to answer you despite your **** poor grammar and crappy question and you're getting mad at us?

I can't be bothered to help you untill you learn a little respect and untill you put some thought and effort into your post to make it legible and to supply us with the information needed.

Funkspectrum

iTrader: (5)

I'm liking my Stance coilovers...

I switched from Tokico Illuminas with aftrmarket springs to the Stance setup and I love it.

CrownPerformance508

iTrader: (1)

Hey i know thats are you guys are knowledgeable and have been doing this a long time, that is why i came to you. I'm not trying to be mean or have an attitude, I'm just trying to get some answers here, and i really do thank all who answered and gave me advise. I guess what i have to do is try some different suspensions and see which one feels best, and is going to do what i need it to do when the time comes. So thanks guys and if i need any advice i hope i still have a bank of knowledge to come to.

carbonRX

lol, you guys were dicks to him first trying to say he wants a show suspension setup just because he doesn't know what the best brands exactly are. i would get defensive too if you put words in my mouth.

Evil Aviator

He was upset because he has horrible communications skills and refuses to read the wealth of information in the appropriate forum sections that were suggested to him.

Nobody would need to put words in your mouth if you could communicate well. Get defensive all you want, but it is your own fault if you can't communicate well.

Black91n/a

With insufficient information it's impossible to give a good reccomendation. People need to learn to ask detailed questions with as much relevant information about their setups as possible.

Things that we'd need to know to give a good coilover reccomendation:
-Budget (how competetive do you want to be and how well prepped is the competition?)
-Wheel and tire setup
-Class rules (this can disallow some of the really good stuff)
-Other suspension mods
-Weight (total and balance)
-Driving style and experience
-Type of racing to be done
-Tracks it'll be run on
-Etc

Once we know more then we can try and zero in on an appropriate setup. Otherwise it's a crap shoot, as there is no one perfect setup, it has to be tailored to each situation, and even with the best advice out there, it'll still need to be tuned and optimized once it's on the car.

CrownPerformance508

iTrader: (1)

Well If there is anybody out there still interested in this thread, I first got a Tein Flex setup witch was very good and had alot of dampening and adjustment but didn't know how to adjust it, So i ended up blowing out the front left shock tower. I guess lower is not always better! So i got the car fixed and bought a Buddy Club system, which had the same adjustment and i didn't want to do the same thing again so i brought it to a local tuning shop who told me i need way more stuff like, lower control arms, bushings, camber kits, arms bars and pretty much hooked me up. So this time when i went to the track it was like night and day. Oh and just to let you know with the proper adjustment and proper "total" setup(all the things i just mentioned and more) a 1000.00 Buddy Club System can work just as well as a 3000.00 Tein system. Thanks to all that commented and maybe ill see some of you on the track, I just got my scca registration.

Roen

iTrader: (2)

um........no, it can't. There's a reason why cheap suspension is cheap.

Can you adjust high and low speed bump and rebound settings on your dampers? Probably not.

Do you have reliable adjusters that can always arrive at the same force settings no matter which direction you turn them in? If you think yes, you may want to experiment at your local shock dyno. I hope quality control is good on the set that you bought, because without the dyno's, you only have your butt dyno to tell you. We all know how accurate the butt dyno is.

It's funny, with suspension, you pay the first $1500 to shave off 2-5 seconds on your lap time, and you really feel the difference. Without fully understanding how to setup and drive your car, you then pay the next $1500 to shave off an extra 0.2 - 1 second.

CrownPerformance508

iTrader: (1)

ok well what do you want me to say have you ever used buddy club stuff? Because after i put that tein coilover through my strut tower i bought the one i needed and had my tuning shop set me up that way with everything and i didnt like it. I love the way the buddy club setup feels. I drive better with the BC system than i did with the tein system i dont know what to tell you. If you want to go out an spend 2,000 dollars on a tein system that you dont like and keep it in there just because it tien then go ahead. I love the feeling of the BC over the tein so thats what im gonna keep

Roen

iTrader: (2)

That's cool, and more power to you, I just didn't agree with the statement that you can get for 1000 bucks what you can get out of a 3000 dollar system.

Remember, they say the *** dyno is usually the most inaccurate system for judging things, and while most people think suspension is a personal thing, I'm in the camp that knows that there's an ideal way to setup suspension and most people (Not you in particular) don't know the right way of going about it. They just bolt up what feels good for them and praise it all day long.

Just curious, what shops do you use in the NY area? Are you upstate or NYC?

CrownPerformance508

iTrader: (1)

I'm in up state and i use the Pro Shop that used to be in spencerport but moved to holley, i use STM with emry and the evo, i use New Era performance i also have a cobalt that they work on so i brought my FC there and they help me out and most of the time i use HPunder2.0L with the blue Del-Sol and i admit there is most deff. better systems out there i just happen to have tested a few and liked this one so maybe i should rephrase my statement. If you can get performance that you like out of a 1000.00 system then great but if you want a 3000.00 system then thats good too

LTDuvall.USAF

Crown I've heard the arguments above while reading this forum and I felt the same way. I know theres a search button and I use it... I know theres rules to forums and I respect that... and we also know that when we need help and wanna do it ourselfs and learn about our cars and join clubs that we think off forums. I new to this stuff like you and yea we might be NOOBS and all thats bull but bottom line is forums were made for questions and answers. Whether its already posted or a personal question we are all here as a team. Lastly I like to say that I think most of the experienced people who shun us off a question really don't know how hard we really work to find what we need sometimes. And forget feeling up more new threads and stuff, becuase I still have question (personal) that need to be answered. Rules sometimes are made to be broken and for all you "Perfect Forum Writers" that shun us off, you only still follow rules cause your at mommies house still. Grow up and stop trying to make forums a competition and HELP!!!!!!!!

All I needed to say!

Crown I got your back bro, PM me and i'll try to help by the more knowledge I gain!

- My brother has been into cars for most of his life... hes a str8 wizz with anything motors. He has a Mazda Miata with Tein Flex and loves it. Has had them for two years and drives ony the miata. He says he backs Tein and there Flex model. It is a mild Tein track suspension, becuase there are better ones out there, but all in all if you drive everyday and still go to track/autocross/street racing/etc. Tein Flex is my choice. I can't wait to start basic training and be done because that is my present when I get out!

They also have a nice moniter system which works with the Flex and most other models and you can change the settings while driving. I might get both.

CrownPerformance508

iTrader: (1)

Hey Thanks thats all i wanted just some help and i thought i would come to the place where alot of people know alot of things. Atleast i know there are some nice people out there