Ok cool well I could buy one of those EGT guages. hmmm
Would a 12A distributer work on my N/a? I don't know of any S3 13B's around hear at yards so that is all I would be able to get locally. I also want to hear more about leaving the CAS on what would have to stay connected? To maintain the stock guages funckionin what would I need to keep from the old EFI harness and stuff?

 

If you can get in on a group buy, you can get a Microtech EMS for the same price as the RB Holley carb kit. The Microtech LT series isn't exactly the world's most advanced EMS, but it is far superior to the stock computer, and you do not need a laptop to tune it, although it will hook up to a computer if you like. You may also be able to obtain a used Wolf3D 3.x for cheap, which is similar to the MT EMS in that it has a hand controller so no laptop is required, although the MT would be a little easier to install.

IMO carbs are extremely difficult to tune for those without a lot of experience. An EMS is much more understandable with increase/decrease values for raw numbers and lots of nice charts or other organized displays of settings. Carb tuning requires "eyeballing" the values with screw turns, parts bending, spring tension voodoo math, and trial and error with different venturis and emulsion tubes. Also, you can tune an EMS from inside your car with the AC and stereo on. When tuning a carb, you need to mess around under the hood, and you need to come to a stop or even shut off the engine to make adjustments inbetween runs. Some carb adjustments even require swapping of venturis and emulsion tubes. Thanks, but I'll stick with EFI where I only have to install the injectors once.

Simple? The last time I checked the carb had quite a few more parts than FI.

Um, how do you figure more power with a carb?

Cost - yes, a ghetto carb setup made with used parts can be pretty cheap. However, the FC comes with EFI from the factory, so the beginning cost for EFI is $0. The 12A already comes with a carb setup, so an aftermarket carb makes more sense in that case.

Contrary to popular belief, carbs and FI are both capable of presenting a clean engine bay appearance, and both have about the same amout of plumbing for a basic installation. If the owner wishes to add extra EFI inputs or outputs, or extra carb inputs or outputs (choke, vacuum advance, etc.), that's up to him/her. The "clean engine bay" excuse for an el cheapo carb setup doesn't fly in reality.

LOL, emissions are a problem with any type of aftermarket induction system, especially one that is intended for more performance.

 

actually thats not really doable until you build a votage correction and a good idle map. the ems's seem to be super sensitive to voltage changes with rpm/load

mike

 

well, EFI is the choice for best power and tunability...i wasn't saying that carb's rule OVER EFI for any of their good traits I listed, just that those are the upsides over the stock fuel injection...more power, tunability (obviously the stock FI can't be adjusted without an AFC or something which won't net a ton of gains) and easy in terms of cost and installation. Cost is really the only defining issue for me, it's a lot less than a quality standalone setup and performs really well. EFI is actually good for emissions provided the user can tune quickly and on the fly...LOADS of adjustments to be made likely not just pass emissions, but pas w/ flying colors. You get a lot of potential efficiency w/ something like a TECIII bc everything is adjustable. We passed NY emissions on a dyno w/ TECII on one of our old school L series Z motors running a full T4, 660 cc injectors and one stock nissan cat we flanged to 3 inches to (to fit the exhaust hehe). The motor is built and the head outflows the IMSA race heads these cars used back in the day. There are no emissions equipment on this motor except fot that one cat and w/ some playing the cr passed real clean. For a rotary setup though I think an EFI is wasted on an NA motor...a stock TII swap w/ minor mods will net much larger performance for the $$ But a carb setup on an NA is not expensive and hp per dollar a great thing for those who don't have emissions tests in their area.

I know Haltech is the big EFI system for rotary people, I wonder why more people don't use TEC's, any idea? We;ve had great experiences w/ them on piston engines!!

 

I don't want to wait for that sorry.

I don't like used things very much.

I would be new to both EMS and Carb so I would have to learn with either one.

I have no A/c or Stereo in my car.

I don't need to pass emmissions testing.


I would like both setups but for different reasons other than MORE POWAH!!!
Carb just sounds cool and looks cool too.
EMS is high tech and I am a computer and electronics type of guy.

 

I was Thinking about the possibility of using the 12A's fuel pump for going carbed???

 

I'm not sure about the 12a's......it may not be enough.

 

I have a Holley Blue fuel pump and FPR on my carbed stock-block 12A. It works, it's rebuildable, and it's cheap.
http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLin.../12-802-1.html
http://members.tripod.com/rx7speedshop/id48.htm

 

Cool guys:

Ok now what kind of numbers would I see over the stock engine/ECU with a full exhaust?

 

You could gain up to 40hp over stock, of which most of the gains will be due to the exhaust.

 

I meant over my setup. which is basically a stock engine. All that I have done to it is on my sig. below
how much more could i gain? 5hp 10hp?

 

Anyone?

 

Heres a dyno chart of a street ported 6 port 13B engine. The engine was tested on an engine dyno and the haltech system had 50mm TWM individual throttle bodies w/short velocity stacks.

 

cool no we have some NUMBERS ok so this dyno sheet is from the same car with an EMS and CABR setup what is that Mikuni thing? is is another carb? someone help me out here.

 

Wow, isn't getting pretty close to teh famed 200hp at the wheels goal right?
Adn yes 1987 Both Dellorto and Mikuni are carb makers. They make IDA/DOCE style carbs much like webber.

 

Yeah My personal goal is 200 RWHP. Ok well that dyno sheet was helpfull but anyone have one on stock ports?


WAN: what manifolds were the carbs on? and could you provid a bit more info on the EMS numbers what amount of time was spent tunning?

 

If your chosen EMS comes with a base map, you can have it fully tuned in 2-4 hours depending on the tuner's experience, which includes fuel and ignition, plus many other features. It would take at least that long to get the best numbers out of a carb due to the fact you have to stop the engine and swap jets, etc to make fuelling changes. Then you need to sort out ignition.
Which ever way you go, you still have to allow some money for dyno tuning.

 

These numbers came from a street ported 6-port 13B on an ENGINE DYNO. Theres no car involved in the test. The EMS was tested then it was removed and then each of the carburators was bolted to the engine and tested.

 

I'll post this info later tonight cuz I'm on my way out. PEace!

 

thanks WAN

 

BUMP!