Cold air INTAKE *not*box*
07-23-06, 01:35 AM
#1
all motor, wish me luck
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Cold air INTAKE *not*box*
i searched the archives looking for a cold air intake, but the only thing i can find is air boxes. and hommade air boxes witch i understand that u cant buy one (except miriah and somethin else) but no intake! im talkin whats after the box! i want whats between the filter and the tb....sorry if this info is out there and i missed it .... im a search natzi.....not really but 'ya know 
07-23-06, 02:31 AM
#2
Yeah, just search for CAI in the tech. section (not the archives). Typically you just cut a 3-3.5" round hole below where the airbox sits and run some 3" pipe from a little after the TB elbow and then down and into the hole, and then stick a filter onto it. This will get cold air from behind the pass. side brake duct.
07-24-06, 01:39 AM
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all motor, wish me luck
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well im fuct i have a contraption on my car that i will post a pic of tomorrow and me know what u guys think......cuz it sure aint no air box.......maybe thats a problem?.....might need a stock intake set up.
07-24-06, 08:57 AM
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The easiest way is to remove the window washer resovour, punch out the size of the hole that's there and run a flexible piece of pipe through it, well that's how i did it anyway.
Is this what you mean? or something else?
Is this what you mean? or something else?
07-24-06, 09:07 AM
#7
Originally Posted by Pilx
The easiest way is to remove the window washer resovour, punch out the size of the hole that's there and run a flexible piece of pipe through it, well that's how i did it anyway.
Is this what you mean? or something else?
Is this what you mean? or something else?
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07-24-06, 01:27 PM
#8
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
IMO, taking out the washer fluid bottle on a street-driven car isn't worth it, just for an air intake. I put one back into mine... I'll find another way to get air to the filter.
The best solution is either a hole in the fender (which I'm not gonna do since the last thing my car needs is more holes in it), or using the stock air tubing (the little plastic part that goes over the radiator into the stock airbox) to get air into a well-insulated box.
The best solution is either a hole in the fender (which I'm not gonna do since the last thing my car needs is more holes in it), or using the stock air tubing (the little plastic part that goes over the radiator into the stock airbox) to get air into a well-insulated box.
07-24-06, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Pilx
The easiest way is to remove the window washer resovour, punch out the size of the hole that's there and run a flexible piece of pipe through it, well that's how i did it anyway.
Is this what you mean? or something else?
Is this what you mean? or something else?
Why would you do this when you can simply slap a pipe on and feed it down through the hole, THEN pop on an air filter?
07-24-06, 02:46 PM
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you can switch the washer bottle to the otherside. my car came with the washer bottle on the driver's side, but i don't have a second bottle like some cars do.
and no one actually bothers testing air intake temp difference, let alone power difference, so it's really a moot point. i find my car heat soaks, but that really happens in the actual intake manifold, and a few degrees intake temp difference most likely does not account for much...
and no one actually bothers testing air intake temp difference, let alone power difference, so it's really a moot point. i find my car heat soaks, but that really happens in the actual intake manifold, and a few degrees intake temp difference most likely does not account for much...
07-24-06, 03:03 PM
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exactly Coldfire..the car I have has the Bottle located on the driver's side too.and I thought this was "normal" until I get into More info where the Bottle is on the other side and in the front as well.I just have the Cone filter on,with the old duct from the Air box,I'm not goin to Get a Power gain that Is really noticeable.So until they manufacture/invent something that gives you a "Kick in the Pants" type of modification that you can do without Chopping a Hole into the Body of the car,I'm staying the way I am.NO big deal.
Last edited by misterstyx69; 07-24-06 at 03:05 PM.
07-24-06, 05:41 PM
#14
Originally Posted by coldfire
and no one actually bothers testing air intake temp difference
in a nutshell...
CONE FILTER, NO BOX:
Originally Posted by alexdimen
i've read the arguments and participated in them... so i decided to go to the auto-x today, have some fun, and figure out what my intake temps were looking like.
the setup:
ebay cone filter on a custom bracket. the stock air duct has been left on the radiator shroud.
how i measured:
i took a thermocouple thermometer with a long lead and routed it along the fender/hood line to where my cone filter sits. the unit sat inside the car with me
results as measured by thermocouple:
outside air temp: ~100 deg F
air temp with hood open, car and fan off, car warmed up: ~120 deg F
air temp idling in grid with hood closed: 140 - 150 deg F (depending on time still and running, reached an equilibrium at ~150)
temperature during runs: ~135 deg F (IIRC: will post temp at 25 mph city)
what else?
i still haven't tested intake temps with the stock setup, which i am putting back on since i just got a K&N element. i will have the thermocouple routed into the box. i also plan to put weather stripping and new fasteners on the stock shrouds up front to get as little air from behind the radiator as possible.
will 30 deg colder air (assuming the stock box heat soaks a bit) be worth a drop in "flow effeciency"? probably.
is a cone filter that much better than a K&N drop-in in the frist place? probably not.
the setup:
ebay cone filter on a custom bracket. the stock air duct has been left on the radiator shroud.
how i measured:
i took a thermocouple thermometer with a long lead and routed it along the fender/hood line to where my cone filter sits. the unit sat inside the car with me
results as measured by thermocouple:
outside air temp: ~100 deg F
air temp with hood open, car and fan off, car warmed up: ~120 deg F
air temp idling in grid with hood closed: 140 - 150 deg F (depending on time still and running, reached an equilibrium at ~150)
temperature during runs: ~135 deg F (IIRC: will post temp at 25 mph city)
what else?
i still haven't tested intake temps with the stock setup, which i am putting back on since i just got a K&N element. i will have the thermocouple routed into the box. i also plan to put weather stripping and new fasteners on the stock shrouds up front to get as little air from behind the radiator as possible.
will 30 deg colder air (assuming the stock box heat soaks a bit) be worth a drop in "flow effeciency"? probably.
is a cone filter that much better than a K&N drop-in in the frist place? probably not.
Originally Posted by alexdimen
anyways. the autocross was great fun and i had my stock intake back on this time.
i was hoping it would be another 100 deg day so the testing was more accurate. nevertheless, i stuck my thermocouple inside the stock box right after the filter. this is after installing a K&N element and adding weatherstripping on the panels that isolate the stock intake snorkel from radiator heat.
air temp: 80 deg f
temperature inside box in grid fully warm: 145 deg f
temperature inside box during runs: 127 deg f
on a day 20 deg cooler (measured 3 feet off the track both days) the stock intake was only 5-10 degrees cooler than the cone filter! that means it was 10-15 degrees hotter! correct me if i'm wrong, but that sucks.
i also noticed slightly less power. however, this was much, much more noticable on the road during mid speed accel, than at the auto-x. this wasn't enough power loss to make or break my time... my shitty tires took care of that just fine
i'm starting to think the box heat soaks like hell and that the air it takes in from the bumper area isn't so minty fresh at lower speeds. this would mean that unless the engine is stone cold and on the highway it's no better than the cone filter.
i will try and measure stock intake again on another 100 deg day... anyways
my next setup to be measured:
-cone filter with heat shielding (some kind of cold air box, haven't decided yet) and reflective tape on the black intake pipe
-FTP lenses removed
-headlights up
i'll be posting pics of the shielding/box too
i was hoping it would be another 100 deg day so the testing was more accurate. nevertheless, i stuck my thermocouple inside the stock box right after the filter. this is after installing a K&N element and adding weatherstripping on the panels that isolate the stock intake snorkel from radiator heat.
air temp: 80 deg f
temperature inside box in grid fully warm: 145 deg f
temperature inside box during runs: 127 deg f
on a day 20 deg cooler (measured 3 feet off the track both days) the stock intake was only 5-10 degrees cooler than the cone filter! that means it was 10-15 degrees hotter! correct me if i'm wrong, but that sucks.
i also noticed slightly less power. however, this was much, much more noticable on the road during mid speed accel, than at the auto-x. this wasn't enough power loss to make or break my time... my shitty tires took care of that just fine
i'm starting to think the box heat soaks like hell and that the air it takes in from the bumper area isn't so minty fresh at lower speeds. this would mean that unless the engine is stone cold and on the highway it's no better than the cone filter.
i will try and measure stock intake again on another 100 deg day... anyways
my next setup to be measured:
-cone filter with heat shielding (some kind of cold air box, haven't decided yet) and reflective tape on the black intake pipe
-FTP lenses removed
-headlights up
i'll be posting pics of the shielding/box too
Originally Posted by alexdimen
took it to the autocross and i'm very pleased with the temperatures.
temperature: 105 deg
temperature measured from pipe elbow (just before the AFM): 113 degrees!
here's the kicker: on top of the huge improvement, this measurement was done STATIONARY in grid, meaning no fresh air was being forced into the bumper duct. i wasn't able to measure it during a run becuase my thermocouple lead isn't long enough, but i'll bet it was the ambient air temp.
it only picked up eight degrees on the hottest day of testing so far. this is a huge improvement over both stock and simple cone. the only thing left to do is heat wrap the intake piping up to the TB becuase it heat soaks horribly and i can focus on a better set of tires.
so, draw your own conclusions. however, the facts so far support a cone filter in any location will out perform the stock heat soaked black box and snorkel. if you really want a cold, free flowing intake go with the fenderwell cone setup. i honestly noticed a huge difference on the starting line after sitting in grid between the fenderwell intake and either of the two other setups i had on earlier. the best part? it only took an evening to install.
temperature: 105 deg
temperature measured from pipe elbow (just before the AFM): 113 degrees!
here's the kicker: on top of the huge improvement, this measurement was done STATIONARY in grid, meaning no fresh air was being forced into the bumper duct. i wasn't able to measure it during a run becuase my thermocouple lead isn't long enough, but i'll bet it was the ambient air temp.
it only picked up eight degrees on the hottest day of testing so far. this is a huge improvement over both stock and simple cone. the only thing left to do is heat wrap the intake piping up to the TB becuase it heat soaks horribly and i can focus on a better set of tires.
so, draw your own conclusions. however, the facts so far support a cone filter in any location will out perform the stock heat soaked black box and snorkel. if you really want a cold, free flowing intake go with the fenderwell cone setup. i honestly noticed a huge difference on the starting line after sitting in grid between the fenderwell intake and either of the two other setups i had on earlier. the best part? it only took an evening to install.
07-24-06, 07:19 PM
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What's the point??
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I currently have an unfinished intake box on the 'squirted seven. Its a huge K&N air filter with a 26 ga steel box thats undercoated at the moment. I also have a headlight cutout. After driving about 20 min. or so it heat soaks to the point the IAT is only about 15 degrees less than the coolant temp. I'll have it insulated soon, so it'l be a little better, but I'l also insulate the tubing. Here is a pic of my bay, its a little dirty from the fire, coolant overflows, and other "adventures" but you can kind of see the box and the relative size of the filter
07-24-06, 08:18 PM
#16
I recently built a box for the intake on my 88 TII:
Made out of aluminum, cut to fit right over the top of the filter and the fmic pipe. The bottom isnt even sealed yet, I plan to finish it with alumium tape or something, so the results could be better.
Before (hot air k&n intake, no box): intake temps at the AFM (as measured by stock afm temp sensor on the RTEK) were about 135 - 140 F.
After: 107 - 110 F, about a 30 degree difference between box/no box
Made out of aluminum, cut to fit right over the top of the filter and the fmic pipe. The bottom isnt even sealed yet, I plan to finish it with alumium tape or something, so the results could be better.
Before (hot air k&n intake, no box): intake temps at the AFM (as measured by stock afm temp sensor on the RTEK) were about 135 - 140 F.
After: 107 - 110 F, about a 30 degree difference between box/no box
07-24-06, 09:09 PM
#18
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well i partially retract my statement about no one testing with actual evidence.
i was not doubting that there is some improvement (especially over the stock intake), however i am really interested to see someone take a car on a dyno, and play around with intake temps to see how it affects the car. all i am saying is most likely there is very little difference, but if you are really bored, go ahead and do it
i was not doubting that there is some improvement (especially over the stock intake), however i am really interested to see someone take a car on a dyno, and play around with intake temps to see how it affects the car. all i am saying is most likely there is very little difference, but if you are really bored, go ahead and do it
07-24-06, 10:25 PM
#19
there have been some dyno results and i believe it was around a 7hp increase over stock with a cold air box.
however, dynos are inside and the car is stationary. tracks, tarmacs, and parking lots are in the hot sun and the car is hopefully in motion.
regardless of what a dyno would prove, i could feel a huge difference between stock, cone without a box, and fenderwell.
the cone filter improved throttle response and the car felt less restricted at higher rpm's. you really notice the difference if you use a cone for a while and swap the stocker back on.
the fenderwell had the same good response. in addition, if i had been in grid at the auto-x or at a light for a while the car didn't feel bogged down. response was crisp at all times.
however, dynos are inside and the car is stationary. tracks, tarmacs, and parking lots are in the hot sun and the car is hopefully in motion.
regardless of what a dyno would prove, i could feel a huge difference between stock, cone without a box, and fenderwell.
the cone filter improved throttle response and the car felt less restricted at higher rpm's. you really notice the difference if you use a cone for a while and swap the stocker back on.
the fenderwell had the same good response. in addition, if i had been in grid at the auto-x or at a light for a while the car didn't feel bogged down. response was crisp at all times.
