Coilovers for Daily Driving and Drifting
12-19-07, 01:23 PM
#51
local place was offering a corner weigh day for $10 a piece.
For $300 your close to getting cheap or used scales yourself.
I'd say Tokico Blues and something like RB springs would be good for street use. I love my Tokico blues.
My drift/track car will be running blues and eibach springs. I'm hoping it will be a good mix. Although I do want coilovers for better adjustments on track and the ability to change my camber(front ones are positive on my dd
) but I suppose camber plates would help that.
For $300 your close to getting cheap or used scales yourself.
I'd say Tokico Blues and something like RB springs would be good for street use. I love my Tokico blues.
My drift/track car will be running blues and eibach springs. I'm hoping it will be a good mix. Although I do want coilovers for better adjustments on track and the ability to change my camber(front ones are positive on my dd
) but I suppose camber plates would help that.
12-19-07, 02:38 PM
#54
Lives on the Forum
If you want cheaper alignments and corner weighting, make friends with a racer with chassis setup tool. I've done my own alignments and corner weighting with some tools borrowed from a friend. You can really easily make some toe plates, add a couple tape measures, camber/caster gauges aren't expensive (~$200) and with that you can do your own custom alignments. It'll pay for itself in a few uses, and is invaluable at the track. Scales are rather more expensive though (~$1000).
For corner weigthing you can't really adjust L/R or front/rear weight balance with the suspension, but what you're looking to do is to make the RF+LR and LF+RR weights to be equal, that way you'll have the same handling balance going each way. Before aligning or corner weighting be sure to shim the floor to make it perfectly level, this is important.
It is ideal to have the driver in the car for the alignment and corner weighting, since that's how it's driven. Some weights, sand bags or anything else heavy can take the drivers place though if you're doing the work yourself.
As for coilovers you want to look for a few things before buying:
-Dyno plots. If you can find some dyno plots of the particular dampers you're looking at (even if they're from another platform) then that's excellent, and a knowledgeable person can have a look at them and make a judgement on how good the dampers really are.
-Durability, if people have been using them on the street for tens of thousands of miles with no issues that's good, some coilovers will die in a year, that's bad.
-Stiffness. Most coilovers are really too stiff for most users. Most racers with race tires use springs (~7/5) softer than what's on 90% of the coilovers out there (usually 8/6 and up), but the springs are universal and can be changed out for something softer as long as it's not too much different (~2kg/mm +/- is usually the reccomended limit). 7/5 is a really nice compromize for street/track use IMHO and it's what I use. It's not bad in terms of ride comfort and it's plenty stiff for track use. Balance can be oversteer, understeer or balanced depending on sways and alignment.
-Service. Can they be rebuilt and more importantly for a racer, can they be re-valved within North America? Sending them overseas will increase the turnaround time and expense. Also consider if they speak the same language, if you want some special valving it's harder to get what you want when there's a language barrier.
-Ignore the whole monotube/twin tube thing, it's more important that it's a quality damper than how it's done. A good twin tube will outperform a lower end monotube, and a good monotube will outperform a lower end twin tube.
-Customer reviews from EXPERIENCED people who've tried several sets and have experienced really good stuff, racer reviews are probably the best, since they care about speed and will seek out the best dampers.
It's a big chunk of change that you're spending when buying coilovers, so do yourself a favour and do lots of research, it's worth it in the end when you get it right the first time around.
For corner weigthing you can't really adjust L/R or front/rear weight balance with the suspension, but what you're looking to do is to make the RF+LR and LF+RR weights to be equal, that way you'll have the same handling balance going each way. Before aligning or corner weighting be sure to shim the floor to make it perfectly level, this is important.
It is ideal to have the driver in the car for the alignment and corner weighting, since that's how it's driven. Some weights, sand bags or anything else heavy can take the drivers place though if you're doing the work yourself.
As for coilovers you want to look for a few things before buying:
-Dyno plots. If you can find some dyno plots of the particular dampers you're looking at (even if they're from another platform) then that's excellent, and a knowledgeable person can have a look at them and make a judgement on how good the dampers really are.
-Durability, if people have been using them on the street for tens of thousands of miles with no issues that's good, some coilovers will die in a year, that's bad.
-Stiffness. Most coilovers are really too stiff for most users. Most racers with race tires use springs (~7/5) softer than what's on 90% of the coilovers out there (usually 8/6 and up), but the springs are universal and can be changed out for something softer as long as it's not too much different (~2kg/mm +/- is usually the reccomended limit). 7/5 is a really nice compromize for street/track use IMHO and it's what I use. It's not bad in terms of ride comfort and it's plenty stiff for track use. Balance can be oversteer, understeer or balanced depending on sways and alignment.
-Service. Can they be rebuilt and more importantly for a racer, can they be re-valved within North America? Sending them overseas will increase the turnaround time and expense. Also consider if they speak the same language, if you want some special valving it's harder to get what you want when there's a language barrier.
-Ignore the whole monotube/twin tube thing, it's more important that it's a quality damper than how it's done. A good twin tube will outperform a lower end monotube, and a good monotube will outperform a lower end twin tube.
-Customer reviews from EXPERIENCED people who've tried several sets and have experienced really good stuff, racer reviews are probably the best, since they care about speed and will seek out the best dampers.
It's a big chunk of change that you're spending when buying coilovers, so do yourself a favour and do lots of research, it's worth it in the end when you get it right the first time around.
12-19-07, 07:04 PM
#55
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Roen - I'ma check out that thread for sure.
Digi7 - here's the great thing about that comment and mine that everything is subjective - I hated my Tockico/Eibach setup. NOT NOT NOT saying it won't work fantastic for you becuase I know the person I sold it is loving it.
Black - you should've bolded, biggeres, italicized, underlined and made "EXPERIENCED" red
Digi7 - here's the great thing about that comment and mine that everything is subjective - I hated my Tockico/Eibach setup. NOT NOT NOT saying it won't work fantastic for you becuase I know the person I sold it is loving it.
Black - you should've bolded, biggeres, italicized, underlined and made "EXPERIENCED" red
12-19-07, 07:42 PM
#57
I knw wht u did last sumr
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-Service. Can they be rebuilt and more importantly for a racer, can they be re-valved within North America? Sending them overseas will increase the turnaround time and expense. Also consider if they speak the same language, if you want some special valving it's harder to get what you want when there's a language barrier.
12-20-07, 01:15 AM
#58
CC of L-Squared Shots
Well the thing is, If you shoot for coil-overs, you're getting a nice stiff suspension. Your best bet for track / DD use would be something that can be adjustable. Stiffer springs and adjustable dampeners would be what you're going for.
If you would actually prefer coil-overs, get ones that can be adjusted quite a bit.
If you would actually prefer coil-overs, get ones that can be adjusted quite a bit.
12-20-07, 09:02 AM
#60
Well the thing is, If you shoot for coil-overs, you're getting a nice stiff suspension. Your best bet for track / DD use would be something that can be adjustable. Stiffer springs and adjustable dampeners would be what you're going for.
If you would actually prefer coil-overs, get ones that can be adjusted quite a bit.
If you would actually prefer coil-overs, get ones that can be adjusted quite a bit.
12-20-07, 01:13 PM
#61
Lives on the Forum
The highways around where I was living this past summer are pretty rough and it was ok with the 7/5 spring rates, but I certainly wouldn't want to go any stiffer, and if I wasn't tracking the car I'd go for something softer. Good damping can make a huge difference and can make a relatively stiffly sprung car tolerable, or make a softly sprung car completely intolerable.
12-20-07, 03:46 PM
#62
Great Post. I quoted this portion as I went with Silkroads. If you are not familiar with them, they make a superb quality coilover sold with custom spring rates which sell for around $1600. Thus far, I haven't had any problems with them and would highly recommend them for street and track use. The only downfall would be service. If I had to purchase coilovers again I might try another brand. From what I've found, Silkroads are not serviceable in NA and you can forget about obtaining replacement parts.
12-20-07, 08:31 PM
#63
I knw wht u did last sumr
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12-21-07, 12:01 AM
#66
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East coast FTL, the roads are beautiful to drive on and see the views but man they suck at teh pavement, but i guess thats what you get with ashplalt roads and heavy winters.
12-21-07, 02:21 AM
#67
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I just got my Powered by max coilovers on yesterday and their 10/8 and the ride isn't horrible like everyone said...(im so glad i dont listen to everyones opinion) because the stiffness of the overall ride comes down to tires... if you dont want it really stiff just get a higher wall tire and smaller diameter rim.
Im trying to find my phone cable so I can post the pics up that i took with a review
Im trying to find my phone cable so I can post the pics up that i took with a review
12-21-07, 06:35 AM
#68
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
Right...... because changing tires back & forth is sooooo much easier than getting a proper suspension to begin with. Not to mention that the LT235/75/15 tires on my truck are probably going to ride a little harsher than the 235/45/17 tires on the mazda. This is ignoring the whole point of a lower sidewall tire not rolling over itself.
You should come to my neighbor hood and drive around. The views are incredible, the roads vacant & rollercoaster like and most are recently paved or in excellent shape. I need to get some vid of my commute when the car is done. It may be 45 min long but early enough in the day it's an awesome waste of time.
You should come to my neighbor hood and drive around. The views are incredible, the roads vacant & rollercoaster like and most are recently paved or in excellent shape. I need to get some vid of my commute when the car is done. It may be 45 min long but early enough in the day it's an awesome waste of time.
12-21-07, 06:52 AM
#69
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I just got my Powered by max coilovers on yesterday and their 10/8 and the ride isn't horrible like everyone said...(im so glad i dont listen to everyones opinion) because the stiffness of the overall ride comes down to tires... if you dont want it really stiff just get a higher wall tire and smaller diameter rim.
Im trying to find my phone cable so I can post the pics up that i took with a review
Im trying to find my phone cable so I can post the pics up that i took with a review
12-21-07, 12:06 PM
#70
Right...... because changing tires back & forth is sooooo much easier than getting a proper suspension to begin with. Not to mention that the LT235/75/15 tires on my truck are probably going to ride a little harsher than the 235/45/17 tires on the mazda. This is ignoring the whole point of a lower sidewall tire not rolling over itself.
You should come to my neighbor hood and drive around. The views are incredible, the roads vacant & rollercoaster like and most are recently paved or in excellent shape. I need to get some vid of my commute when the car is done. It may be 45 min long but early enough in the day it's an awesome waste of time.
You should come to my neighbor hood and drive around. The views are incredible, the roads vacant & rollercoaster like and most are recently paved or in excellent shape. I need to get some vid of my commute when the car is done. It may be 45 min long but early enough in the day it's an awesome waste of time.
I miss working in Westchester, RT-22 between North White Plains and Armonk is a blast to drive, though it still favors the higher power cars. Since I work in the city now, all I have are freaking Manhattan and Queens 10 ft deep (3 meter for you canucks) pothole-filled roads and ruts that, if you have any sort of good tire, serve to throw your car around like a ragdoll. I cannot imagine how coilovers would be, my Tanabe GF210's with 3.0/2.0 (Yes, 3.0/2.0) was almost as stiff as I could bear. My friends, as soon as they got in, started noticing the increased stiffness and some even complained about the ride. This was on my Koni's at the softest setting.
City roads FTL, especially if you see snow and ice regularly. Salt on the roads every year + cars with coilovers = painful time for all.
12-21-07, 06:03 PM
#74
Lives on the Forum
7/5 or 400/275 refers to spring rates front/rear in either kg/mm or in lb/in. If it's a small number like 7/5 then that's 7 kg/mm front, 5 kg/mm rear, if it's a big number like 400/275 then it's 400 lb/in front and 275 lb/in rear.
12-21-07, 06:48 PM
#75
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
If you take 684 to 84, get off the first exit in CT and hang a right, follow that to the first stop sign. The road between 84 and the stop sign isn't the greatest but FUN!!! Then after the stop sign go strait and keep heading south southeast. You can get lost in the valley for hours! You'll either end up on 7, 35, or 116 and all of them are easy to get back to 84 with.
/jack