phoenix7

and your contributions did not meet your own expectations. What are you gonna do to fix it?

TitaniumTT

^^ AAHAHAAHAHAHAAA - I give up with these threads. A bunch of hot heads that think that stiff springs and height adjustment are the end all to all suspension woes. It's fantastic that people post about corner weighting or aligning a car are usless.

As usual - I just completely agree with everything that Phoenix has to say - not to mention he makes me

Sideview_S13

Relax its just drifting...........

phoenix7

thanks for the input. I almost had a stroke, had it not been for you.

staticguitar313

iTrader: (2)

guys guys guys


3 words


***** shifter ****

thats all

alphaxxn

coilovers aren't anything to drifting if you don't have a 195 tire on a 10.5 inch wheel.

duh.


oh and phoenix I had my M3 with tein super-streets cornerweighed, but only because the scales were handy to me at the time

phoenix7

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA omgwtfbbq!!!!! you win!

fcdrifter13

Dude you are the ******* moron ok. HE wants the car to be streetable, he said it was his daily driver and you want to slap coil overs on it. Are you all still butt hurt because of that joke of an FC i made fun of i mean come the **** on.

Coil overs are simply to stiff to be used as a daily driver. I don't really care what you say, IE its not that bad, the ride isn't as stiff as what these people say, thats complete BS. A good set of RB springs, hell even GC, some AGXs, and some sways is all he needs to go out and have a lil fun on practice day.

Please GTFO and DIAF

Mutaku

Both of your responses are immature and not desirable on the forum keep it civil peeps.

Second, I have had experience with both coilovers and separate spring and shock setups and honestly the coilover was smoother in contrast to the spring and shock on a lowered car. Its all in what you get honestly. If possible see if you can find some people with different setups to give you a ride and see how you like it.

TitaniumTT

HUH!!! real world research as opposed to forum bickering! Where's the fun

Actually I do completely agree as just about all suspension tuning is going to be completely subjective and car dependant and the only way to get a good is to go out and drive on a pair.

Roen

iTrader: (2)

Proper suspension tuning is done with suspension velocity histograms with data coming from suspension position sensors installed on the cars. Since NONE of us have that kind of money to flaunt around, you can go one of two ways. Either go the subjective way, and feel what works best for you, which I don't particularly agree with, or go the objective way, which is to use past empirical evidence from the rich guys who have plotted their suspensions on a histogram and take from their experience.

I was reading Dennis Grant's thoughs and he came up with a simple rule that I would be willing to try once I get my shocks revalved. A very good estimator of the ideal force curve is to set the shock to 65% of critical damping, until the shock forces climb high, and then digress the curve in the high speeds. (Curbs, bumps, etc...). The reason I like this approach, is while the subjective method will let you take advantage of the current setup, the objective method will provide the most grip in cornering and bump situations, allowing you to be faster. You just have to adjust to it, but once you do, your speed before and after will be like night and day.

So for those would want to try the objective method (Caution: You will have to spend more money), here's a simple way: Identify the natural frequency you want your suspension to have, then pick your spring rates based on that NF. After that, give your data, i.e. spring rates, NF, mass of the car, weight distribution per corner, etc. to a competent, reputable shock rebuilder (Koni, Bilstein, Penske, Ohlins and affiliated) and ask them to vavle your shocks to 65% of critical damping until you hit high speed and digress the curve flat for high speeds from there. (Source: Dennis Grant) You'll get a coilover setup that, at first, may take a bit getting used to, but once adapted, you'll realize that you can stay on the power in places where you couldn't before.

The previous advice was purely for track/autox cars.

For a street car, the advice is simple, if you don't have a reason to, don't go coilovers. Stay with a good shock and spring setup. Unless of course, your roads are entirely smooth, then you could go with a budget coilover. Try the Tein's, I guess, if you're looking to get a cheap coilover. However, be prepared, the ride will suck compared to stock. I already dread riding on Tanabe GF210 springs, my 425 lb/in/300 lb/in springs are going on my track only car. I hate having a sore back after driving.

BTW, 7 kg/mm/5 kg/mm is the maximum you should go on an FC with street tires. Anything more, and you're just hurting your maximum grip. Though, I guess that's good for slow drifting?

TitaniumTT

While that trully is fantasitc advice from a track junkie that is beyond my level how much of that can the OP really understand? Expecially for a dual purpose car people are generally more concerned with ride quality which is why I always say - don't ask someones advice - jump in car with said suspension and rock out. I did however take your advice as well as black91n/a, rocklobster as well, I think there were a few other real track junkies here that all said the same thing - 7/5. All the manufactures are saying 8/6 and up. So I bought both but I'm starting with the 7/5's




I just had the best chocolate chip cookie ever! My mother-in-law made it. I need to get more of them, I think the platter in the Lounge is empty

Roen

iTrader: (2)

That's why I had my "street car" caveat.

I need to learn how to use smiley code.....I'm so missing out.

At least the n00bs stopped flooding the lounge.

fcdrifter13

Oh god dont say that or they will come back. Everyone thinks Im a total *** outside of the lounge. The truth is I am a very nice person, but if someone starts throwing ****, imma **** in my hand and throw back

TitaniumTT

why take the effort to **** in your hand? Throw thiers back or We'll hold them down and eliminate the whole throwing thing all together

Valkyrie

I don't see why you would need to corner weight a street car just because it has adjustable ride height. As long as each corner is the at the desired height, you'd at least be very close to the stock weight distribution (which isn't going to be 25/25/25/25 anyway, especially with the driver in the car).

Sure, you should do it on a race car WITH THE DRIVER IN IT, but that requires expensive equipment and people who know what they're doing.

Roen

iTrader: (2)

I don't really see it as a need either, but more of a "should have done" or "if I have the money". That way, it maximizes the utilization of the product you've purchased.

I think the key corner weighting distribution with driver in it is: Equal L/R distribution in the front and in the rear? Someone else chime in on this one.

TitaniumTT

"Close is only good enough in Horseshoes and HandGrenades"

I plan on cornerweighting. You don't have to buy ridiculously expensive equipment either, there are shops that would be more than happy to do it for you. You get your car aligned don't you?


PS - I saw an OLD trick once where someone built "leverage reducers" out of basic flat steel and he used bathroom scales

TitaniumTT

Yeah - that's what I'd go for as well - aim for getting the corners equal but try hard to keep the opposing sides equal to promote balance during switching

Valkyrie

Yeah, but an alignment costs $60 or less... how much does a race shop charge for corner weighting?

TitaniumTT

I was told $75 for an aligment & corner weighting..... so $15??

Roen

iTrader: (2)

no way......last I heard was $300?

TitaniumTT

Wah??? The guys I was talking too a year or so ago about doing the whole frickin AWR/revalved Koni setup were telling me that they just charge thier time, It'll take about an hour.... therfore ~$75.

Want thier number now

Sideview_S13

doing the AWR 'conversion' as i call it should be the thing you must do. In addition to coilovers and a good corner weighting session and you determine your desireable height. You will have a car that will track so well on normal streets. It will be fun to do so. Being in socal race shops are just a phone call and a short drive away. Not to mention you can be slammed since the roads aren't horrible.

My friends Z33 on zeal super functions and complete battle version suspension arms rode so well on the freeway. i would drive straight for miles. Even with undulations in the road.

Roen

iTrader: (2)

If you look in NE section, I have a thread on corner weighting, and there's a link to a shop in that thread.