autocrash

So, I finish re-assembling my '87 honda accord (the one with 99 hp) and I take it for a quick spin... OH $HIT!! this thing is faster than my RX-7!!! ...atleast it feels that way... so I take the RX-7 out for a spin... OMG, IT IS FASTER THAN MY RX-7 I soon realize that the clutch on my RX-7 is slipping past 4500 RPM... (I didn't notice before because the RX-7 is only the 3rd manual car, and the 1st working one I've owned...)



SO.... moral of the story, matt needs a new clutch
And I would love it if you guys could suggest a fairly inexpensive replacement for it, preferably a performance clutch with increased holding capacity...

Thanks in advance...

Silkworm

Stock if you're not drag racing or hard off the line, and it's NA.. Otherwise ACT.

PaulC

autocrash

ouch... any idea of the approximate costs for both?

Amur_

This is copied from a recent reply of mine to another thread. It's from the install of a 6 puck copper racing clutch from ACT last September. My girl is an NA and I don't race, and I LOVE this clutch. It's commonly used for racing and I've been told that it's damned near impossible to kill. It will be the last clutch you ever buy for your 7. Bear in mind that you may want to shore up your tranny mounts after installing it - the clutch grabs like Dom DeLuise at an all-you-can-eat buffet and it sometimes likes to shake the snot out of my drivetrain as it engages.

All $ is in Canadian funds.
====================


The $250 was for the clutch and a release bearing. Here's the receipt:
----------------
Labour to remove necessary components for transmission removal, remove transmission, pressure plate and disc, clean flywheel, pressure plate, install new disc and supplied release bearing, reinstall transmission, fill with fluid, remove rear carrier bushings and reverse.

$252.00
----------------
6 puck race disc

$240.00
----------------
Gear lube

$10.86
----------------
Transmission fluid

$2.49 (they didn't use Redline - I put some in later.)
----------------

Total with taxes - $586.95 ($5.04 for 'shop supplies' - I suppose that that means that I bought them coffee.)

Paul's Tire and Auto did the job, but the mechanic who actually did the install isn't there anymore. He hasn't hooked up with another shop quite yet, although he may be about to. I'm sure he can get the same price on the same clutch (I'm not promising that on his behalf or anything, though.) I'll be posting to the Canadian Forum once he's found a new shop...

scathcart

But definitely not the last flywheel or pressure plate.

A copper disc clutch is for racing. A good organic disc makes much more sense. Why do you need such hard shifts for the street? It'll only make your car slower, especially since launching is much harder.

Just because it says it is for racing, it doesn't mean its going to make your street car faster.
You going to lose that alternator and cooling system too? Maybe stop filling that fuel tank with gas and switch to alcohol?

autocrash

WHOA!! $586.95... wtf... I just checked with crappy tire, they are asking $487.-- just for a clutch kit (i know, the PP is included...) Is it possible to get the pressure plate resurfaced or something? 'cause I think crappy tire had a refurbished clutch disk for $80...

What I'm asking now I think is how much do I HAVE TO change... ('cause I'm bloody broke... )
And, what is a REASONABLE price for clutch/pressure plate?

scathcart: planning on an organic disk, thinking of an ACT modified street disc, 'cause I want it to last a little longer than stock if possible...

Amur_

And what kind of lifespan can be expected from an organic? Especially on a 7 that sees a lot of hard driving? There probably aren't many granny-shifters on the Forum... And I've already seen one post this year complaining about the OEM clutch failing prematurely.

Quote:

Why do you need such hard shifts for the street? It'll only make your car slower, especially since launching is much harder.

How would a clutch that grabs so effectively slow the car down? Launching is harder? What are you talking about? Hard shifts? With the ACT clutch and Redline MT-90 tranny fluid the shifting is as smooth as I could ever hope for.

Quote:

Just because it says it is for racing, it doesn't mean its going to make your street car faster.

Who said that it would make the car faster? Or are you trying to read minds tonight?

Quote:

You going to lose that alternator and cooling system too? Maybe stop filling that fuel tank with gas and switch to alcohol?

scathcart

Sorry to have upset you, but you're the one running a racing disk on the street. I'd rather replace a $200 disk every 50,000 miles than replace a $400 flywheel and a $200 pressure plate at the same interval.

To get a good launch with a copper disk clutch, you have to slip the clutch big time. This eats the flywheel. Argue it if you want, but facts are facts. You said yourself there is no wear to the clutch disk on a copper puck clutch.

You can expect at LEAST 50,000 miles to a good ACT organic disk. Launches don't rquire near as much slippage, and unless you are exceeding 350 ft-lbs of torque, the clutch won't slip.

Tell me a good reason to run a copper-puck clutch disk on the street.

And no, I don't granny shift. In fact, I guarantee I've put more power through my ACT organic disk than you have through your copper-puck disk.

The copper puck clutch will make your car slower in the 1/4 mile by making launches harder.

Yes, I have driven a copper-puck clutch. Its just not for the street. Sorry you're so upset about it.

Funny how ACT states on there website: Not recommended for street use due to harsh engagement. Funny how you know more about your clutch than the engineers who manufactured it...

Amur_

Gotta clarify some stuff that I didn't b4.

Most of what I put up was what I was told by the mechanic who did the install. He maintained an 11 second RX-7 drag car and did a tonne of work on it. He has recommended and installed the ACT copper unit on a lot of customers' 7s. He has never had to replace an ACT.
When he installed mine, I asked about also installing some kind of stronger flywheel. He assured me that it wasn't necessary and that the stock flywheel would hold up. This is the only man to work on my 7 since shortly after I bought it 2 years ago. He has shown himself to be patient, considerate and a remarkably capable 7 enthusiast. I have every faith in his experience and his judgement, including that regarding the ACT clutch.

Does he know more about it than the engineers? I don't know. And I don't care. What is clear is that he has years of experience with their equipment in both street and racing applications.

And I didn't say that there is no wear on the ACT.
So upset? More liked annoyed at what appeared to be an unprovoked FLAME in response to my post. That's why there's a sun in that pic instead of something less pleasant.

The man asked for a recommendation, and I offered mine. If you think I'm off-base with my 411, please say so. But kindly **** off with the flames.

scathcart

Last clutch kit I got as an OEM replacement 3 years ago for my old '88 NA from Canadian Tire was $198 for TO bearing, disk alignment tool, and OEM spec disk and pressure plate.

Maybe try Lordco? I know a friend recently priced one for his 87 TII from there and reported $204.

And you would be very happy with an ACT organic disk.

scathcart

It wasn't meant to flame... It merely seemed like another person who thought adding racing parts to their street car made it faster (remember all those "electric water pump" threads that pop up now and then?). I admit I've made that mistake... see sig.

And yes, you're entitled to your opinion and entitled to give it, but having driven both, I thoroughly loved driving the copper-puck clutch, but it was just too hard to drive for street driving. I immediately drove my ACT Xtreme/organic disk set when I got home (and let out about 15 lbs of nitrous into it), and found I could get better launches and not get any slippage with my organic clutch.

Yes, it is a blast to drive a copper-puck clutch, but IMO, not for a street or strip car.

This is my opinion only. Sorry for the feeling of a flame, it was unintentional.

Rpeck

I went with the organic disk ACT 'see sig for model' The main reason I did is because I have heard the 6 puck is hard on your tranny... also heard it has no springs and therefore chatters alot. Haven't rode with it yet .. cars not quite done but I will let you all know how I like it. I am going to be pushing some serious HP through this thing ... so I hope it holds out okay.

scathcart

I've put 250 horsepower through mine... and then added an instant 200 extra horsepower on top of that (hit both stages at once.)
It'll hold up for you.

Rpeck

hey, re-edit that quote now I fixed my gramour

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

well, i don't know what you consider fairly inexpensive, but here's my 2 cents ...

clutchmasters stage 3 - should cover you for some pretty serious mods, if you have any planned ... and it's still a sprung disc.

the only other suggestion i would have made would have been the ACT (but it's not sprung, and will therefore be harsher)

anything cheaper than those????

well ... centerforce stage I or stage II, both are streetable, but depending on how "hard" you drive on a regular basis, you will burn the discs in quicker than the clutchmasters unit ...

all i can say is do research and good luck in choosing

Amur_

It took me about 4 or 5 days to get the hang of driving the car again. The night I picked the car up, when I went to leave the shop I kept snuffing her. And while the pedal grabs at a different position than it did b4, it does just fine in traffic. As mentioned, I do get some chatter and shake. I asked the mechanic about this, and I was told that a more strongly-mounted tranny should end it. I'll post a request for input/ideas on this shortly (searching was pointless - do you know how many posts have the word 'transmission' in them? )

And if I understand what you're saying about harder launches, a smooth launch at 3k+ is easy *once* you get the feel of the clutch. If you've driven with a copper clutch just once, I would suggest that you didn't even begin to get a taste of how it behaves. A modded FB owner tried driving my car at a recent meet and it screwed him right up.


The tone of your posts, without elaboration and especially without smilies, seemed progressively more insulting. Assuming that I had just fallen off of the cabbage truck probably didn't help things to start with.

autocrash

AHHH!! DILEMA!

Although the ACT six-puck is unsprung, I've gotta say that I like the price, and from the sounds of things, the performance....

but I don't want something too harsh, this clutch will probably not see any more than 300hp EVER... so I am drawn to something like an organic disk...

What would you guys recommend for a clutch disk, when used with a stock pressure plate...

(BTW, is it possible to have a PP resurfaced?)

Amur_

Yup. My 7 mechanic strongly advises against it. Just the pp a quick buff or swipe with sandpaper and then leave it alone. He's said that he knows that other 7 mechanics will argue it up and down, but he's not yet worked with a machined pp that didn't bugger the set up.

Btw, while I haven't had her dyno'ed, I'm pretty sure that my NA hasn't broken 200 hp yet...

autocrash

So what you are saying is that my stock PP should be fine without replacement? meaning I can just pop an 80 dollar remanufactured clutch disk in there and go (if I really had to... )

...This means that for the first step of my clutch change I could get myself a new ACT organic disk ( like the second stage or whatever... can't really remember) a new throughout bearing, and a new pilot bearing, and then assuming there is no significant damage to either the PP or flywheel, lightly sand them and throw it all together, right??

...'Cause that ^^^ would make my day perfect!


and btw, when I was mentioning 300hp, I was definately not referring to the stock N/A engine.... lol...

Amur_

Mine wasn't replaced. Just "cleaned," like it says on the receipt.

autocrash

hmm... sounds good... now I just gotta hope my PP is in good shape... (not too glazed lol..... )
(5000 RPM drops ARE NOT the $hit.... (I was just learning to drive it... ok? ) ...actually clutch was slipping when I bought it...)

turbo eight-six

I have an ACT street disc and heavy duty pressure plate in one of my eight-sixs and it works very well. its not too stiff, not too lite. I daily drove with it for 3 months with no problems. it engages pretty quickly but at a constant rate.

goodspeed

I personally went with a racing beat 6 puck sprung disc.

autocrash

at what cost??

bignatedogg

ok children calm down. i put a 4 puck act in mine. by the way way well worth it. act comes with a 2600 lb. pressure plate. it does just fine, and i give mine hell. just beware, if u havent put one in before its a bitch. this was my 1st install and it took me 10 hrs. recommend replacing the flywheel with a titanium one. but the act is worth it, cost me $300 us money and put it in myself, sved big bucks