Carburated, to FI?
10-31-05, 03:46 PM
#1
pfcmooney
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Carburated, to FI?
Okay, this friday i'm buying an 87' glx with the 13b and the previous owner switched it to a weber carburator, with velocity stacks and all that crap, well, when i get back from iraq i'm wanting to convert it back to fuel injection, is that going to be hard? What would i need? also is that a good idea or could i get better gains from it being carburated?
10-31-05, 04:03 PM
#2
you could probably get better gains with the carb setup?? depends on how it was tuned really tho.....
the swap back will only be as hard as what is missing from the car.... intake manifolds injectors, throttle body ,all the sensors, wiring harness, ecu.... depends on whats missing really... does he have the old parts still??
the swap back will only be as hard as what is missing from the car.... intake manifolds injectors, throttle body ,all the sensors, wiring harness, ecu.... depends on whats missing really... does he have the old parts still??
10-31-05, 04:25 PM
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pfcmooney
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How, can i get more power? and how can i tune a carb? The guy who did the convertion went into the army, so he's gone..... but i don't care if i can get it FI now, as long as i can make the carb faster, do you know how to tune the carb? This is my first rotary/carbed engine, and i'm loving every bit of it, i just watched the tutorial on howstuffworks.com on the rotary, pretty awesome stuff, thanx for the reply bud!
10-31-05, 05:41 PM
#4
Originally Posted by pfcmooney
How, can i get more power? and how can i tune a carb? The guy who did the convertion went into the army, so he's gone..... but i don't care if i can get it FI now, as long as i can make the carb faster, do you know how to tune the carb? This is my first rotary/carbed engine, and i'm loving every bit of it, i just watched the tutorial on howstuffworks.com on the rotary, pretty awesome stuff, thanx for the reply bud!
The stock manifold and AFM are super restrictive, so using a carb with ITB is a an ok option. You lose alot of finer adjustments and the sorts. But still for an average street car its fine.
11-01-05, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Jager
The stock manifold and AFM are super restrictive,
Anyway, if you want to convert back to EFI, there are several ways to do it.
You can use all stock stuff. Stock manifold, AFM, ECU, harness, etc. Certainly will work, but you are relying on parts that are 20 years old and even older in design. If you want basically a plug and play swap for a mostly stock car, then this is the best choice. Cost is likely very cheap.
If you want to be able to tune the car, and start with much more modern technology, then look at a standalone. You will need to basically build the wiring harness and have the car tuned, but the result will be much better then the stock system and you should gain some decent power when it's all tuned. The downside of course is the cost, since you're looking at $300-$2000 for the actual standalone, and then there's the installation and tuning time.
If this was my car, I would go standalone.
11-01-05, 08:47 AM
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good luck in iraq brother.
stick with the webers and spend your money on more performance parts. as old as the car is the carb will be easier to maintain than the fuel injection and will yeild more power for less money.
stick with the webers and spend your money on more performance parts. as old as the car is the carb will be easier to maintain than the fuel injection and will yeild more power for less money.
11-01-05, 09:16 AM
#7
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Keep it carbed... if he didn't already do it.. put a header on it.. the only time i suggest running a header on an N/A... is it the engine is carbed.... you got a carbed motor.. go for the header...
How do you tuner it??? Same way you do a FI car... get a wideband and go beat on the car.. however.. adjusting the ful is going to be a bit more difficult... changing jets and all that.. But... shoot for 12.7 to `13.0 at Wide Open Throttle.
How do you tuner it??? Same way you do a FI car... get a wideband and go beat on the car.. however.. adjusting the ful is going to be a bit more difficult... changing jets and all that.. But... shoot for 12.7 to `13.0 at Wide Open Throttle.
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11-01-05, 09:46 AM
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Why would he have to rejet it? I don't think it gets too cold where he is at. I understand your point though. Carb setups are fairly simple and straight-forward.
11-01-05, 09:57 AM
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11-01-05, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by YearsOfDecay
the only time i suggest running a header on an N/A... is it the engine is carbed....
To the thread starter:
Standalone with the same manifold setup, relatively, should show some nice gains.
Last edited by ddub; 11-01-05 at 12:25 PM.
11-01-05, 12:19 PM
#12
[QUOTE=Aaron Cake]Prove this. QUOTE]
I have no proof, but from the engine builders I talk too they tell me that the stock manifolds are teh suck and the AFM is restricting. I guess I took their word for it.
I have no dyno numbers or anything. But I do know Kahren uses custom manifolds when he can and he claims to gain 20HP off them. Also I was told by another builder that the manifolds should be custom when going for over 200HP, otherwise its a restriction.
Also by the same tuners they tell me its the AFM restricts the car when going for over 180HP (in NA form).
Just what I was told. Sorry if it was misinformation to you.
I have no proof, but from the engine builders I talk too they tell me that the stock manifolds are teh suck and the AFM is restricting. I guess I took their word for it.
I have no dyno numbers or anything. But I do know Kahren uses custom manifolds when he can and he claims to gain 20HP off them. Also I was told by another builder that the manifolds should be custom when going for over 200HP, otherwise its a restriction.
Also by the same tuners they tell me its the AFM restricts the car when going for over 180HP (in NA form).
Just what I was told. Sorry if it was misinformation to you.
Last edited by Jager; 11-01-05 at 12:25 PM.
11-01-05, 01:00 PM
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I know plenty of cars making over 400 HP at the flywheel using the AFM, so they can't be all that restrictive. I believe that testing has been done in the past measuring vacuum between the AFM and throttle, and it turned out to be very, very little. Thus, the AFM is not a restriction.
As for the manifolds, it's not really that they are restrictive. It's that with ported engines, Mazda's manifold tuning doesn't work as well as with stock ports.
As for the manifolds, it's not really that they are restrictive. It's that with ported engines, Mazda's manifold tuning doesn't work as well as with stock ports.
11-01-05, 01:02 PM
#14
Originally Posted by Aaron Cake
As for the manifolds, it's not really that they are restrictive. It's that with ported engines, Mazda's manifold tuning doesn't work as well as with stock ports.
11-01-05, 05:02 PM
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pfcmooney
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thanx pbrx7, i'm sure i'll be safe in iraq, i chose a top secret job before i joined just for these reasons, but on the other hand, the car has a rb header, 13b rotary, the guy i bought it from said that it's been bored (what that means on a rotary engine? Ihave no clue) maybe he meant ported? but it's also got a weber carburator, (which is prolly about as loud as the damn straight through exhaust!) and athe exhaust is the header a resinator and a magnaflow muffler, all welded on with 3" piping......
So what do you guys think i should change or what not.....i'm already changing the exhaust to duals with silencers, so thats already taken care of.....what else?
So what do you guys think i should change or what not.....i'm already changing the exhaust to duals with silencers, so thats already taken care of.....what else?
11-02-05, 09:03 PM
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remember, the original owner put the webers on for a power gain. you can make a lot of power with the carb. and if you look at most of the threads on this forum, its people having trouble with the with thier factory or modded FI system. and i have never had to change the jets in my carb because the weather changed. most people badmouth carbs because they have either had a bad experiance, or they are ignorant. get you a book on webers from the local auto parts store and read up on them while your on the sandbox. i run a holley now, in the future i might try a weber sidedraft. for now i enjoy smoking "superior" built fuel injected cars with my "crude" (and cheap) blow thru setup! ill be heading to afghan soon so ill bank some money and hopefully get my car looking as good as it runs.
Last edited by pbrx7; 11-02-05 at 09:08 PM.
11-02-05, 09:08 PM
#19
pfcmooney
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afgan huh? Lucky you! Yea, it is a weber sidedraft what i have, is that good? also do you know how to tune carbs? this is my first carbed car and i'm kinda liking it, IMO it's a gas hog though......
11-24-05, 01:21 PM
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Keep it carbed with a Weber
Originally Posted by pfcmooney
Okay, this friday i'm buying an 87' glx with the 13b and the previous owner switched it to a weber carburator, with velocity stacks and all that crap, well, when i get back from iraq i'm wanting to convert it back to fuel injection, is that going to be hard? What would i need? also is that a good idea or could i get better gains from it being carburated?
Originally I went with a Holley 600 CFM Carb with Manual Secondary but my complain was that it smelled really bad... in the garage where my car is kept my family would complain about the fumes. Also there was quite a bit of bogging, lag and sag around corners.
Carlos Lopez of CLR Motorsports had suggested a few months ago to go with a Weber 45mm Sidedraft carburator. He said that it would be night and day. The difference is that it would run better.. no bogging.. no lag and no sagging.. in fact that the response would be better. He also said that I would have more low end torque with the 45mm Weber since my car is 800lbs heavier than the coupe that would be the correct setup.
Someone posted to run a header.. that is exactly what I have done with mine and it runs better.. I am still running the stock crank angle sensor so i still have some of my puter working but CLR will be installing a 12A distributor with 10.4mm Spiro Pro Race Wires and we will use the Trailing coil for spark along with an MSD 6A Ignition Amp.
I am very pleased with this Weber setup... my vert flies now and no more fumes.. Girlfriend is happy. The next mod will be the 60-1 turbo setup
Here are the pics...
11-24-05, 02:56 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by arghx
you can make good power with the carb. There's no point in going fuel injected unless you drop a **** ton of money in it for a standalone etc.
And $400 for a Megasquirt is hardly a "**** ton". It's likely cheaper then 99% of carb setups.
11-24-05, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Aaron Cake
All things being equal, you can make better power with EFI.
And $400 for a Megasquirt is hardly a "**** ton". It's likely cheaper then 99% of carb setups.
And $400 for a Megasquirt is hardly a "**** ton". It's likely cheaper then 99% of carb setups.
It will also be coming pre-tested with a base map that is guaranteed to start and idle. After that, of course, it's up to the owner to tune for driveability
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