Ottoman

this is driving me mental...

car was totally ok...

i start and stopped it several times, (left garage, changed at home, bought gas, went to eat)

at my last stop.. turn off the car... then it just wont CRANK!

if i push start it, it runs fine like always...


when i try to crank.. single click and nothing....

when i turn the key the handbrake light blinks on/off
my afc-2 will also of/on momentarily it self like it lost power at the moment of "crank" when i turn the key.. (don't remember if it used to do that..)


i have never had a clutch switch.. but up or down made no diff...

hand brake up or down makes no diff

battery is fine (12.2V)

car jumps starts and runs like always.. just doesn't crank

I run took the positive and jumped it straight to the "peg" next to the solnoied peg it's on.. and the elec motors wirrs up no problem... (i had it rebuilt recently infact)

all the main fuses are ok...

i even disconnected my turbo timer.. no diff...

I'm stumped!

i need help.. i really need the car running

SureShot

when you describe "single click then nothing"

Is that the click of the mail IG1 relay near the firewall, or the starter relay pushing the starter pinion into the flywheel gear?

If it's the IG1 relay, then you could have an ignition switch or starter circuit interlock (like the clutch pedal) problem.

If the starter is clicking, then it's probably a weak primary cable connection.
You can find it by jiggling the cables & feeling for a warm spot while trying to crank the starter.

KompressorLOgic

iTrader: (6)

when this happenst o me its allways just the battery cable is slightly loose and or coroded

Ottoman

i can't really locate the click.. as it kinda "echo's" through the engine bay but it's deffinately not comin from the Alternator...

the IG1 relay is on the drivers side behind the coils right? is it the small square rubber coated one? or the large fat rectangular one in a steel "shell"?



although i don't have the best wiring in the world... i can get quite a fierce sparking by crossing the positive term of the alternator and the ground of the body... and spins the motor quite fast

HAILERS

The click is the STARTER SOLENOID on top of the starter. That click verifys the circuit to the solenoid from the key is good. It does NOT verify that the current going thru that circuit is adequate.

IF you do NOT have THEFT PROTECTION read on. IF you have THEFT PROTECTION stop HERE.

Remove the three nuts from the TRAIL coil assy and move the assy to the side. Do not unhook any wires from it.

Look for a BLUE electrical connector with a jumper wire in it. Remove that half of the connector that is BLUE.

Find the Black/White wire on one end of the connector.

Get a piece of electrical wire and strip both ends. PUt the car in NEUTRAL now.

Put one end of the wire in the socket with the Black/White wire.

Touch the other end of the wire to the Positive terminal on the battery.

The starter should turn over. If it does, repeat this touching the battery post any number of times.

If the starter turns over each and EVERY time you do that, here is my opinion: The starter and solenoid are good. But there is something amiss with the ignition key. I'd suspect the contacts in the ignition switch are not carrying enough current to pull the starter solenoid in good enough.

I have one car that goes click/click when I try to start it more often than not. After about three tries it always starts. It passes the test I just described above. The day the starter won't start/turn over after several click/click tries......is the day I fix the car. I don't like under dash work at all.

I'll attach a thread showing the BLUE connector half later. https://www.rx7club.com/forum/attach...hmentid=137381

Ottoman

thanks hailers...


and lets say it doesn't turnk over each time?

does that mean it's the starter solenoid? i tried removing/opening the solenoid.. but i couldn't get the phillips screws out for the life of me....

RexRyder

iTrader: (10)

i had the relay problem. Push button start wired directly to the starter solved the problem.

Ottoman

Rex where is the relay itself?

if i gotta push start button it.. so be it!

eastcoastdrift

you need to run current to your S-terminal on your starter solenoid to activate your starter. The S-terminal should have a B/W wire going to it if its a S4 (if im wrong and the wire isnt B/W, than its the only other terminal on the solenoid besides the larger battery terminal.) Just bypass your ignition switch and run a wire with current to that B/W wire that goes to your starter solenoid, put a switch somewhere on that wire before it gets to the solenoid, just make sure to hide it well.

Ottoman

yea it's an S4 TII

so all i have to do is run a power wire with a switch on it, from the battery straight to the little tab on the starter solenoid?

HAILERS

************************************************** ************

If you have no Theft Protection, you have no relay in the starter circuit. There is no relay involved on a non theft protection car. The Starter Cut Relay in the Theft Protection cars, is replaced by that BLUE jumper connector I left a jpg of earlier.

If the starter won't click each time as I described earlier, then as crude as it sounds, get under the car and smack the starter a couple of times with a hammer on its side. If the starter then turns over........get another starter. The brushes are not making contact and are probably worn out.

I always assume prior to writing a thread on the starter not working that you already made sure the battery cables are on good along with the battery negative cable on good at the bellhousing. In other words all connectors on good.

If you have a digital meter you could attach the positive lead to the small blade on the solenoid and the negative on a good ground. Then go to Start and see if batt voltage shows up each time you go to start.

In case your unsure that the click if the solenoid do this: just reach under the car and pull that small wire off the blade connector on the solenoid. Now go to start. If the click went away you know where it was coming from. The solenoid.

Ottoman

i honestly don't know if it's a theft protected car or not...

I've never had to push the clutch to get it to start...

but the center console does have the orange "security" plastic square/light thing...

god knows what the previous owners jerry rigged on this car before i got it...



i don't know if the previous owner has deleted the clutch switch perhaps or not...


the starter was rebuilt recently.. and i removed it and tested it on the ground.. using car jumper cables and wiring it direct to the starter it spins like a ****! torques enough to move itself

the grounds seem fine to me... i can get crazy spark by arcing them at the starter...

when using the Mutlimeter at the starter should i get near the same reading as I do at the battery?

i attach the positive to the blade? or stick it inside the connector itself?

i'll try the click test as well.. it might be ALL of the relays clicking when i goto "ON"

HAILERS

Put the meter on the small wire that goes to the starter. Just pull it off and stick the positive lead in the connector. Hold the switch to START and the voltage should be battery voltage. Maybe slightly less. Not much less if the wire is off the solenoid and just going to the meter. Batt voltage showing up each time you go to START is a good sign that the circuit is in tact to the solenoid.

Some early 86-87 cars did not have the Interlock switch on the very top of the clutch pedal. I've one of those cars also. Another car I have I've bypassed that interlock switch by just jumpering the two wires that go to the intelock switch.

You could get under the car and pull the small wire off. Then get a piece of wire and jumper b/t the small blade and the large hot wire on the starter. It should spin the starter each and every time.

Look for that Blue connector I mentioned that is located just below the Trai coil assy. It's bright blue. Can't miss it. If it is there, then there is no theft protection and in turn no Starter Cut Relay involved.

Yes. The only way I could be sure that I was not hearing some other relay was to pull the small wire off the starter and going to START. I hear no click when I do that, meaning it is the starter solenoid I'm hearing when I hear CLICK.

Ottoman

ok thanks HAILERS,

i'll start with the hot wiring the solenoid to the wire next to it, straight to the positive

will the motor spin only? or will the car actually crank?

Ottoman

well Good news


lifted the coil pack.. and found NO blue connector.. only a white one stuck the shock tower, and some other odds and ends... so I DO indeed have a anti theft enabled car

i did the arc solenoid test... car cranked!



but key still didn't work..

out of rage and fustration.. thinking it was the igniion cyl/column or anti theft problem... I tore out the drivers seat and dove under the dash...


low and behold... i discover a strange wire that had been spiced into the Black/red wire leading to the ignition cylnder...

disapearing into the firewall...

i followed it up. and around past the master clutch cyl.. and it suddenly stopped...

i looked around and found the other half of it had wound around the steering column and had eventually pulled it apart... i followed the other half down.. and low and behold.. it went to the starter solenoid!


i reconnected the wire.. and now the car works... except for one thing:

I'm like HAILERS now... it always used to crank on first try, now it takes a few turns for it to start turning over.. somes 2nd try sometiems third...

but hey at least i can drive my car to work now...

so much for the other ppls jerry rigging..

thanks for all the help everyone

HAILERS

That's good news.

By the way, the Starter Cut Relay is located near/next to, the Main Relay. It should have a plug on it with six sockets. On a turbo two of the sockets are empty. The wire colors in the other sockets are, Black/Green, Black/Green, Black/White, Light green/Yellow. Same colors on a non turbo.

I think the Theft Protection Unit is located on the passengers side. It's attached to the speaker panel just under the glove box. I don't have theft protection but I'm fairly sure its there.

I'm gonna fix that click, click.....someday.