2nd Generation Specific (1986-1992) 1986-1992 Discussion including performance modifications and technical support sections.

Car will not start. please help

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Old Jun 15, 2013 | 07:08 PM
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From: rochelle, il
Car will not start. please help

Lets start with some background. I recently bought an 87 tii that has been sitting for about five years. I put about a quart of trans fluid into the chambers and spun the engine over a few times. I have removed the spark plugs and clean them in a blast cabinet. now for the problem. I have 35 psi at the beginning of the fuel line. The pcm is grounding the injectors. i pulled the injector to make make sure they were not clogged and they are good. the car will run on starting fluid so i know it has compression and spark. I am kinda at a lose. I fix cars for a living but this is my first rotary. I won't get my injectors back from the testing company until Monday when ups shows up. It did have an alarm system in it but i removed it today.
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Old Jun 15, 2013 | 07:20 PM
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You can jumper the fuel check connector (has two wires) and it will turn the fuel pump on w/key to on to test if it is working or not and you can leave the jumper in place and try to start the car. Also, have you replaced the fuel or changed the filter? And was the fuel pressure tested after the fuel filter or before? If after, then 35 psi is about right if it was tested w/the gauge inline.
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Old Jun 15, 2013 | 08:32 PM
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From: rochelle, il
i did replace the fuel and i have 35 psi after the filter. I used the pump to drain the tank too.
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Old Jun 15, 2013 | 10:26 PM
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Was the gauge inline or dead headed when taking the pressure reading? This is rather important to share as it makes a difference. And have you tried to jumper the fuel check connector to check if the pump works w/key to on or not?
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Old Jun 15, 2013 | 11:18 PM
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There are a number of places to start. The fuel pump relay on S4 cars is triggered by a switch in the AFM, so issues like this where it runs off starting fluid but the pump won't run on its own often are related to an AFM issue.

Is the FP running during cranking? You can jumper the test connector to bypass this step.
Is the AFM connected? Any error codes being recorded by the computer? Checked the TID for cracks/other issues?
Can you verify that the ECU is actually injecting fuel? Since your injectors are already out, you could wire them onto the rail and test this theory by turning the CAS by hand and verifying they pulse.
Fuel lines reversed? (You'd be amazed at the number of people who do that!)
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Old Jun 16, 2013 | 07:25 AM
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From: rochelle, il
I hooked the gauge inline. I will have to check to see if the lines on switched. How do I pull codes. The company that tested the injectors says they are good and I watched the graph on my scope verifying that they pulse. I pull them to verify they were not clogged. What is the (cas) and the (tid). I did jumpered the fuel pump straight from the battery and didn't make a difference.
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Old Jun 16, 2013 | 11:43 AM
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From: tulsa,ok.
Originally Posted by minion60
I hooked the gauge inline. I will have to check to see if the lines on switched. How do I pull codes. The company that tested the injectors says they are good and I watched the graph on my scope verifying that they pulse. I pull them to verify they were not clogged. What is the (cas) and the (tid). I did jumpered the fuel pump straight from the battery and didn't make a difference.
CAS is the Crank Angle Sensor which is basically your distributor. TID is the Throttle Intake Duct. And how did you test the primary injectors since they are hidden under the manifold? Did you test them for pulse while installed or not?

Last edited by satch; Jun 16, 2013 at 12:12 PM.
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Old Jun 16, 2013 | 02:25 PM
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From: rochelle, il
i tested the injectors while still installed for pulse and then i removed them to test flow.
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Old Jun 16, 2013 | 03:42 PM
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From: tulsa,ok.
If the injector plugs are not secure then they won't work or if one of the two wires in the plug are pulled back within the plug then you'll have the same issue. As far as the primary injectors are concerned you can tell if the plugs and associated wires are good to go if you measure pins 3E and 3C of the ECU w/key to on and get a 12 volt measurement. No 12 volt reading and that tells you there is an issue.
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Old Jun 16, 2013 | 03:55 PM
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From: rochelle, il
that's how i checked them before i removed them
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Old Jun 16, 2013 | 04:37 PM
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From: tulsa,ok.
But you need to make sure that things are as they need to be after the install.
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Old Jun 16, 2013 | 04:48 PM
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From: rochelle, il
i know i am putting it back together tomorrow after work or on my lunch break depending on when ups shows up.
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Old Jun 18, 2013 | 07:35 AM
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From: rochelle, il
injectors didn't make a difference. i found out that i keep blowing the 15 amp ignition fuse under the dash. does any have any helpful places to start?
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Old Jun 18, 2013 | 10:31 AM
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From: tulsa,ok.
If yo are referring to the Engine fuse then it runs to the alternator (B/W wire), runs to the Circuit Opening Relay, the Main Relay, and to a component associated w/automatic transmissions. If the fuse blows then the Main Relay won't work and if it doesn't work then the injectors,coils and ECU would not receive power and thus no spark or fuel and all that bad stuff.
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Old Jun 18, 2013 | 01:59 PM
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From: rochelle, il
I think that is the right fuse.
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Old Jun 18, 2013 | 02:45 PM
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From: tulsa,ok.
Replace the fuse. Then unplug the components mentioned except for one of them and w/key to on see if the fuse blows again.
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Old Jun 18, 2013 | 06:53 PM
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From: rochelle, il
ok thanks
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Old Jun 18, 2013 | 07:01 PM
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From: tulsa,ok.
The Engine fuse supplies power w/key to on so you would then have to turn the key to on to see if the fuse holds or not. If it does then turn the key to off and plug in the second item and rinse and repeat til you identify the troubled area.
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