car ran hot at idle, BUT 50mph 20min not fully cool. normal?
05-20-13, 10:44 PM
#76
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I think it had something to do with some wiggling. I'll see if the problem comes back. if it does I will go on a hunt. For now, its fixed and I'll see if it lasts. if it ain't broke (anymore), why fix it? well, unless it becomes a problem again. lol. you get the idea. thanks
05-22-13, 07:31 PM
#78
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^ it wasn't due to the e fan. it happened when I changed the water pump and I finally pinpointed it to rusty/corroded connecters on the back of the alternator for the L and R wires. It's odd though, it was still putting out 14v at the b+ terminal the whole time. anyway, I sanded those down and put the connector back on and it seems to work all the time now. The e fan will be wired properly this weekend.
now I just have a leaky thermostat gasket. I'm trying a stud to see if it will hold on the threads and then the nut can torque it down. other then that, I'll have to replace the entire water pump housing
now I just have a leaky thermostat gasket. I'm trying a stud to see if it will hold on the threads and then the nut can torque it down. other then that, I'll have to replace the entire water pump housing
05-22-13, 08:48 PM
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why would you need to replace the entire housing? what happened to it? warped? and yes, a stud always provides better clamping force than a bolt
Last edited by welfare; 05-22-13 at 08:58 PM.
05-22-13, 09:08 PM
#80
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I have 2 threads, thought I mentioned it.
when I changed my t stat the first time, both bolt heads snapped right off with very little constant torque applied so I drilled the bolts out and re tapped. thats when I put the stant in. now I just replaced with mazda oem t stat but the inner most bolt, while seemingly threading in all the way, strips out when trying to tighten it down. its sorta tight but not tight enough as I have a leak at the t stat gasket. so, I'm going to chase the threads and see if a stud will hold onto them. I have a s4 t2 water pump housing I could use (if the bolts come out of that one anyway) but I'd rather try the stud idea first so I don't have to do the water pump all over again and get a new water pump gasket. Crossing my fingers here basically.
history: every time I work on this car, something goes wrong. repack wheel bearing? brake line snaps. oh, you think a t stat will be a quick job. well, the bolt heads will snap off. changing water pump? Guess that means I'll have to mess up the alternator charging circuit. baaaaaaah. everything turns into a full day project and has consequences lol. Here I was thinking I would get it painted this year. Not likely at this rate with my income.
when I changed my t stat the first time, both bolt heads snapped right off with very little constant torque applied
so I drilled the bolts out and re tapped. thats when I put the stant in. now I just replaced with mazda oem t stat but the inner most bolt, while seemingly threading in all the way, strips out when trying to tighten it down. its sorta tight but not tight enough as I have a leak at the t stat gasket. so, I'm going to chase the threads and see if a stud will hold onto them. I have a s4 t2 water pump housing I could use (if the bolts come out of that one anyway) but I'd rather try the stud idea first so I don't have to do the water pump all over again and get a new water pump gasket. Crossing my fingers here basically.history: every time I work on this car, something goes wrong. repack wheel bearing? brake line snaps. oh, you think a t stat will be a quick job. well, the bolt heads will snap off. changing water pump? Guess that means I'll have to mess up the alternator charging circuit. baaaaaaah. everything turns into a full day project and has consequences lol. Here I was thinking I would get it painted this year. Not likely at this rate with my income.
05-22-13, 10:24 PM
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heli-coil is your friend. then you can retain the factory bolts. m8x1.25 coil. will need to drill a 21/64 hole and tap with the provided tap. as long as your current tapped hole is smaller than 21/64, you're gtg.
and yes, these cars are old now. aluminum housings with steel bolts result in seizing quite frequently.
the best thing to do with a seized bolt in aluminum is to heat the head of the bolt red hot. then, allow it to cool to the touch. that bolt will practically come out by hand after that
the electrical harness' on these cars gets real brittle as well. the insulation cracks off, leaving bare wire, which causes electrical issues
and yes, these cars are old now. aluminum housings with steel bolts result in seizing quite frequently.
the best thing to do with a seized bolt in aluminum is to heat the head of the bolt red hot. then, allow it to cool to the touch. that bolt will practically come out by hand after that
the electrical harness' on these cars gets real brittle as well. the insulation cracks off, leaving bare wire, which causes electrical issues
05-22-13, 11:05 PM
#82
^ it wasn't due to the e fan. it happened when I changed the water pump and I finally pinpointed it to rusty/corroded connecters on the back of the alternator for the L and R wires. It's odd though, it was still putting out 14v at the b+ terminal the whole time. anyway, I sanded those down and put the connector back on and it seems to work all the time now. The e fan will be wired properly this weekend.
(
(
Seriously, you will be upgrading that alternator if you drive at night, have an amp, drive in stop and go traffic, have an A/C etc. Any one of those situations will be too much for the S4 alternator.
Plan ahead.
05-23-13, 10:39 AM
#83
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haha, no I see what you're saying jackchild. I don't have ac or power steering. took my subs out so no amp now. but if I run the lights, wipers, and heater, the battery isn't charging at all. but thats with it wired on all the time. most of the time it will be off when I wire it correctly. I live in a rural area so I don't sit in traffic more then 3 minutes really. So its working for now and was without issue until I did that water pump. I'm just unlucky.
I'll probably look into another mazda alternator instead of getting the FD. I think clokker said there were higher amp models on a 626 thats plug and play.
as for the heli-coil, I have never had use one before. but I guess it would make sense going that route. we tapped it to just bigger then it was and used whatever bolts were laying around which is something SAE sized. heads are 1/2".
I'll probably look into another mazda alternator instead of getting the FD. I think clokker said there were higher amp models on a 626 thats plug and play.
as for the heli-coil, I have never had use one before. but I guess it would make sense going that route. we tapped it to just bigger then it was and used whatever bolts were laying around which is something SAE sized. heads are 1/2".
05-24-13, 05:59 PM
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managed to get a nut on the backside of the bolt for the thermostat cover and no more leak, gasket and rtv that has already set seem to be holding up.
temp on stock gauge has moved a splinter down after I bled it a few times to make sure. so its around 1/3 I'd say now but all the air is definately out. also wired my e fan to my temp probe. its a chili rainy day so I still have to adjust it. for now I drove the car for a while. stopped and let it idle for a while and turned my adjustment **** to where it just barely goes off. no more constant 30 amp ignition load on my system until the fan comes on. as I was told however, I will be needing a higher amp alternator. looking to get mine rewound instead of going taurus or FD.
(copy and paste from my 1/2 temp thread.) all is well, just getting my alternator upgraded and it should be solid once again!
temp on stock gauge has moved a splinter down after I bled it a few times to make sure. so its around 1/3 I'd say now but all the air is definately out. also wired my e fan to my temp probe. its a chili rainy day so I still have to adjust it. for now I drove the car for a while. stopped and let it idle for a while and turned my adjustment **** to where it just barely goes off. no more constant 30 amp ignition load on my system until the fan comes on. as I was told however, I will be needing a higher amp alternator. looking to get mine rewound instead of going taurus or FD.
(copy and paste from my 1/2 temp thread.) all is well, just getting my alternator upgraded and it should be solid once again!
06-01-13, 10:34 PM
#85
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Now I have a very slight overheating at speed (65mph) problem only on very hot days (80F outside temp). I'm about to drive it of a cliff. its more managable and doesn't usually get to 3/4 but it goes another 1/8 above half sometimes cruising on the highway. Time for a new radiator probably. I'll flush it out and see what happens. I don't have bad coolant seals either, did the tests.
06-01-13, 10:42 PM
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Sorry,I mentioned a belly tray..
You stated you had an aluminum tray which is as far as I know for under the engine.
The Plastic tray that covers the area in back of the rad to Front engine area,Under the steering rack and prevents air from being sucked out at speed.
If you look in your engine bay and see ground while looking at the steering rack you are missing the Plastic tray I am talking about.
You stated you had an aluminum tray which is as far as I know for under the engine.
The Plastic tray that covers the area in back of the rad to Front engine area,Under the steering rack and prevents air from being sucked out at speed.
If you look in your engine bay and see ground while looking at the steering rack you are missing the Plastic tray I am talking about.
06-02-13, 08:19 AM
#87
Now I have a very slight overheating at speed (65mph) problem only on very hot days (80F outside temp). I'm about to drive it of a cliff. its more managable and doesn't usually get to 3/4 but it goes another 1/8 above half sometimes cruising on the highway. Time for a new radiator probably. I'll flush it out and see what happens. I don't have bad coolant seals either, did the tests.
Are you still using low speed on the Villager fan? If so try using high speed.
A persistent myth is that the OEM belt driven fan 'disengages' at speeds above (fill in the blank)-25mph, 35mph. This is not true. The properly working fan clutch is incapable of turning the fan at less than 35% of the full lock up speed. So on winter day, the fan is turning 35% of max. It will seamlessly pull as much more air as it needs to pull in order to keep the temps at the factory spec.
Your Villager fan does not pull as much on low speed.
06-02-13, 08:36 AM
#88
A persistent myth is that the OEM belt driven fan 'disengages' at speeds above (fill in the blank)-25mph, 35mph. This is not true. The properly working fan clutch is incapable of turning the fan at less than 35% of the full lock up speed. So on winter day, the fan is turning 35% of max. It will seamlessly pull as much more air as it needs to pull in order to keep the temps at the factory spec.
It's analogous to feeling your forehead to determine body temp instead of using a thermometer up your ***...you can get an approximation of conditions but not an accurate read.
06-03-13, 10:26 AM
#89
Now I have a very slight overheating at speed (65mph) problem only on very hot days (80F outside temp). I'm about to drive it of a cliff. its more managable and doesn't usually get to 3/4 but it goes another 1/8 above half sometimes cruising on the highway. Time for a new radiator probably. I'll flush it out and see what happens. I don't have bad coolant seals either, did the tests.
Also, the undertray helps force air through the oil cooler, and depending on your shrouding, the radiator. Having one may help.
06-03-13, 05:29 PM
#90
It's important to note that the factory thermoclutch has no idea what the coolant temp is, it only knows how hot its housing is.
It's analogous to feeling your forehead to determine body temp instead of using a thermometer up your ***...you can get an approximation of conditions but not an accurate read.
It's analogous to feeling your forehead to determine body temp instead of using a thermometer up your ***...you can get an approximation of conditions but not an accurate read.
From the Hayden site:
Thermal Fan Clutch
Varies the fan speed with temperature of the air behind the radiator.
Engaged (high speed) operation provides maximum cooling
Disengaged (low speed) operation provides fuel savings and noise reduction.
Greater life expectancy than a non-thermal clutch
Briefly engaged at cold start-up.
Engages at about 170° radiator air temperature (about 30° lower than coolant temperature).
The air temperature coming through the radiator is sensed by the bi-metal thermal
spring on the front of the thermal fan clutch. It expands and contracts with the change
in air temperature operating a valve inside of the clutch. When cold, the silicone
drive fluid is pumped from the working area to the reservoir. When hot, the valve opens
allowing fluid from the reservoir to be transferred to the working area thereby increasing
the fan speed. The clutch disengages as the air temperature decreases, closing the valve
and allowing the silicone fluid to be pumped back into the reservoir.
FYI: "Forehead thermometers may appeal to people who are squeamish about rectal thermometers."
06-03-13, 05:56 PM
#91
Yeah Jack, I can appreciate all that but...
-Unless you've dropped the big bucks on a new thermoclutch, it's probably not as efficient as when new.
-The thermoclutch acts completely backassward when you need it most...at idle.
With a decent rad/thermostat and good coolant you basically need no fan at all at highway speeds but sit at idle in traffic, sucking up the hot exhaust from the car ahead of yours and the thermoclutch fan slows down with the water pump.
Given the rotary's sensitivity to overheating and the fact the efans are cheap and easily set up, I don't see any reason not to avail oneself of the better tech.
-Unless you've dropped the big bucks on a new thermoclutch, it's probably not as efficient as when new.
-The thermoclutch acts completely backassward when you need it most...at idle.
With a decent rad/thermostat and good coolant you basically need no fan at all at highway speeds but sit at idle in traffic, sucking up the hot exhaust from the car ahead of yours and the thermoclutch fan slows down with the water pump.
Given the rotary's sensitivity to overheating and the fact the efans are cheap and easily set up, I don't see any reason not to avail oneself of the better tech.
06-03-13, 06:06 PM
#92
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The one and only reason I dont have an e-fan is because I like the stock look.
****, i could do away with the stock fan shroud and be happy, but then the snorkel wouldn't fit right.
****, i could do away with the stock fan shroud and be happy, but then the snorkel wouldn't fit right.
06-03-13, 06:14 PM
#93
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ok, I think I pointed it out before but I have all undertrays and ducting that comes OEM including the plastic undertray and an aluminum tray that covers the oil pan. I am lacking the OEM fan shroud now since I went e fan but the shroud is built into the fan in that case (as far as the radiator is concerned. I wonder if it needs a shroud to direct air more around the engine? it should be fine. I adjusted the temp for when the fan comes on so it is on quite a bit on a hot day now. I see that as a band aid though as I am in the boat that my car should not need the fan on when cruising under little load at 65-80mph. I could be wrong. today is quite a bit cooler and the car ran fine.
I know I need another temp gauge, but the car never had this problem before so that counts for something. I haven't had a chance to flush the radiator yet but I theorize that my heater core is clogged some as well. it has never blown very hot at all. its hot enough to defrost windows in winter (0-20f temps) and warm the car up a little but you still need a jacket and gloves. my radiator is also 27 years old. I *hope* I don't need to replace it but we will see. I have bled the system of air multiple times, used the bleeder screw, and burped lower and upper hoses so it can't have any air pockets left at this point either. I guess that about covers it, I just need to see what the flush will do.
KEEP IN MIND... I did solve my overheating at idle though
lol, for what its worth. I just happened to create another problem as is often the case with old cars.
I know I need another temp gauge, but the car never had this problem before so that counts for something. I haven't had a chance to flush the radiator yet but I theorize that my heater core is clogged some as well. it has never blown very hot at all. its hot enough to defrost windows in winter (0-20f temps) and warm the car up a little but you still need a jacket and gloves. my radiator is also 27 years old. I *hope* I don't need to replace it but we will see. I have bled the system of air multiple times, used the bleeder screw, and burped lower and upper hoses so it can't have any air pockets left at this point either. I guess that about covers it, I just need to see what the flush will do.
KEEP IN MIND... I did solve my overheating at idle though
lol, for what its worth. I just happened to create another problem as is often the case with old cars.
06-03-13, 08:05 PM
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^the heater in my '00 impreza 2.5rs (normal winter rig) can burn your face off if set to max after the car is warmed up. seriously, even in the winter I run the temp at 3/4 of the way up when at operating temp. its rediculous.
My FC is old. 1986. I'm worried that if I run some of that radiator flush stuff through the entire system (I'm worried about the block) that I may dislodge some debris/rust/corrosion/whathaveyou that is haphazardly keeping it all together and working. Should I just do it or somehow flush my heater core disconnected from the system (garden hose on the heater hose?). the radiator I can also disconnect and flush with a hose. I'm not sure if a regular garden hose would provide enough pressure to clean them out though. I haven't found any threads about people flushing the whole system with a product and then having engine problems yet though. Opinions?
My FC is old. 1986. I'm worried that if I run some of that radiator flush stuff through the entire system (I'm worried about the block) that I may dislodge some debris/rust/corrosion/whathaveyou that is haphazardly keeping it all together and working. Should I just do it or somehow flush my heater core disconnected from the system (garden hose on the heater hose?). the radiator I can also disconnect and flush with a hose. I'm not sure if a regular garden hose would provide enough pressure to clean them out though. I haven't found any threads about people flushing the whole system with a product and then having engine problems yet though. Opinions?
06-05-13, 08:51 PM
#96
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I used lock washers to space my waterpump pulley away from the housing because it was hitting. its spaced less then 1/16" out but that is probably enough that maybe the pump is cavitating under load or high speed (2500 rpms though). I'll have to take my dremel and grind down the housing ever so slightly. its hitting on those reinforcement legs things (you'll know if you look at your water pump). I still have an air pump so there are 2 belts going over the water pump.
I will still flush my core and radiator as well as replace the presumably stock radiator hoses and heater hose under the oil filter area. Some of that might as well and probably should stuff.
I will still flush my core and radiator as well as replace the presumably stock radiator hoses and heater hose under the oil filter area. Some of that might as well and probably should stuff.
06-06-13, 10:13 AM
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thanks clokker, I just meant (but used wrong terminology) that perhaps the belts are slipping. they aren't frayed at all. they are probably fine since I can drive at the same rpms through town and be fine. just thinking. the "overheating" isn't spiking, it is very slow, slower then my idle overheating. I can drive probably 25 miles normally before it starts getting to 3/4 of the way up (normal op temp is at 1/3 now). I clutch in when I can to gain some cooling, it falls fairly quickly if I'm going 65mph and do that for like 30 seconds so its not horrible.
I have no accessories other then the air pump. no a/c, no power steering pump. I just need to find some time to do the flush. perhaps I will get to it tonight at my auto class. mind you, all this mystery running hot nonsense is making my confidence level regarding auto mechanics pretty low. I'm obviously not ready for a garage job, maybe a quick lube type station.
I have no accessories other then the air pump. no a/c, no power steering pump. I just need to find some time to do the flush. perhaps I will get to it tonight at my auto class. mind you, all this mystery running hot nonsense is making my confidence level regarding auto mechanics pretty low. I'm obviously not ready for a garage job, maybe a quick lube type station.