FC_fan

iTrader: (2)

well, waterpump is old (rusty) so it would be time soon if not already. its kinda cheap, rad cap cheap, t stat cheap so might as well.

new belts didn't do anything. my fan does spin at idle but I wouldn't know if its fast enough. the heating up is slow. I sat in the car and watched the temp and it takes like 15 minutes for it to get to 3/4 of the way up. I've bled the coolant system just in case. nothing is leaking anywhere. so next pay check is going to get all that stuff I mentioned and then the fan clutch if its still not fixed.

beefhole

iTrader: (29)

Don't panic just yet. At least you know the temp gauge is working properly because it's giving the different readings. Some people say "omg! above 1/4 you're toast! Oorgle bleat zumpy!!" Mine ranges from 1/4 to 1/2 whenever I take it out. 1/2 on the gauge is... 195-200. Nothing to panic about! My car is a modded turbo with stock fan and plastic radiator, not worried here.
Should you verify all systems though? Of course. Should you be shitting bricks? Don't think so.


edit!
just saw 3/4 on your gauge. OK.. worry a little
Radiator could be clogged, t'stat could be questionable...

stupid suggestion... run NO t'stat. See what happens. The engine should take a long time to come up to temp, if it even does... If it doesn't take long, you know it's something besides the t'stat.

Rob XX 7

iTrader: (8)

No ac but you said new "belts", what remains?

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

On this forum often the obvious answer is given early, everyone chimes in with an opinion some based on what they have read, some based on their own overheating odyssey. The OP is greatly confused. Time and money is wasted


When you replace the fan clutch, your problem will be fixed. Every other suggestion in this thread *can* cause overheating, but nothing else exhibits idle temp climbing and the moving temp dropping. And yes, that reflects my own experience too!

Good Luck!

-J

Rob XX 7

iTrader: (8)

Jack- so does a failing waterpump, just saying it can do the same thing, it happened to me and no tell tale leak out the weep hole
Might not be his specific problem but it is a definite probability

FC_fan

iTrader: (2)

well, the alternator and the airpump. both those belts also run over the water pump pulley. they looked kinda ragged and maybe a little loose (nothing major) so I replaced hoping for a miracle. lol.

hiw should I run the car without a t stat? just idle should show if its the problem, the temp would climb right? assuming that the t stat is not to blame of course.

Clutch fan is most likely isn't it. damn, most expensive single part. still doing water pump and mazda oem t stat at same time. next paycheck. $60 is a small price for piece of mind. I'll get the fan clutch too. I'm not sure if a used fan is worth it, unless its dirt cheap. parts are already 2 decades old.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

If you are already resigned to doing "everything", why not just get the pump & thermostat first, see if the problem goes away.
If not, the thermoclutch can be replaced without opening up the cooling loop or you may want to consider going to an electric fan.

I would agree that if the stock mech fan is going to be retained, it only makes sense to get a new thermoclutch instead of hoping for a decent used one.

Rob XX 7

iTrader: (8)

If i purchased a used FC i would change all those parts as maintance, so its good practice.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

Maybe so. How does it fail? Does the impeller erode and lose it's blades? Just trying to imagine how the pump could fail to move the coolant. It could 'wear ' off the blades, it could become clogged with debris, it could fail to turn. What am I missing...?
I've never seen this on a waterpump. The shaft seal MTBF is surely lower than the time it takes to wear off the impeller blades.

Thanks Rob!

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

The whole 'spin it with your finger when it's cold' method of testing leaves a lot to be desired-too much subjective evaluation for a person with no previous experience. OP has 'tested it per the fsm'. I think it should turn less than a rotation when cold in the morning. After it has started and the fluid distributed but before it warms up, it should turn a full rotation. When it's all hot it should lock pretty tight.

I put a used S5 thermoclutch on an 88 N/A. The 88 was a Canadian car with 320,000 KM on the clock when it began heating up at idle and around town. Additionally, the A/C stopped cooling as well in traffic. Everything cooled down at speed on the highway.
The thermoclutch was from an S5 with 90,000 miles. $25 from a salvage operation that inventories parts, Mazdanissanheaven in the Ft. Worth area. Problem was solved.

Rob XX 7

iTrader: (8)

Goes under my "you wont believe it until it happens to you" folder.

Not sure how it happens, sometimes its just the bearing, sometimes the impeller.


its like the first time I chased an electrical problem for weeks with a Jeep and an old timer told me my battery had reversed polarity itself. I laughed him off but he was right. Happened when I jumped start the guy next door and he crossed the cables for a second. Issues started showing up a week later
I also had a vehicle that wouldnt start, would crank and crank, but no start. Someone told me battery is no good. Told them its cranking really strong and the battery was only a month old. Swapped out the battery and it started right up- had a bad cell.

FC_fan

iTrader: (2)

well, the fan clutch is magically no longer available from rockauto the moment I added it to my cart!? go figure. guess I WILL start with the pump and stat, and radiator cap just because mine is prob original and its very cheap. then see what happens. I have completely committed to buying all that. preventative maintenance at the very least. 160k miles is a lot for a waterpump isn't it?

Was going up a different steeper mountain today and got stuck behind an 18 wheeler. Going 25mph in 2nd (3rd felt too much engine load). engine temp slowly crept up and up. I was almost ready to pull over as it approached the 3/4 mark to give it a break but we crested the hill and I passed the truck. coasted after gaining speed to 60mph and temp immediately started going down (much faster then the original scenario in this thread, right back down to 1/4.). I've been leaving my heat on hot the entire time and windows down. turning on the heat to try and gain what cooling is left but its killing me in this heat lol. payday can't come soon enough.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

a piston engine car with a timing belt will be on its 3rd water pump... so yes.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

i've replaced a couple of water pumps for bad bearings, the worst had like an inch of play and was really loud, didn't leak a drop though!

FC_fan

iTrader: (2)

ok everyone, new question now: Explain electric fan conversion to me lol.

I have read a few threads and want to get the mercury villager/nissan quest electric fan. First question is more on fitment. someone used weather stripping, is the fan supposed to be sealed around the radiator somehow? I'm a total noob to this aspect but it should be pretty simple. I know how to make it fit just how to have it on the radiator the right way is what I am curious about. I read through that "HOW TO: control electric fan with factory thermoswitch" thread and it seemed simple (even for me, wiring-retarded). but what aftermarket or factory thermoswitch should I use and where would I put it, etc?

post up links if you want. I was reading a really good DIY a while back but can't seem to find it now. I've been searching and reading but am getting kinda confused and not having done it before, nothing is going in depth enough for me. I'm looking at you clokker, I saw your name in quite a few of the threads I was reading. Be my babysitter? lol

clokker

iTrader: (2)

Here you go.

FC_fan

iTrader: (2)

hahaha, that is exactly the thread I was looking for that I had read some time ago! I didn't realize you were the author. I read that the villager fan fits better and cools good as well but whichever I find and is cheapest is what I'm going for. Good show, thank you very much.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

Which fan fits better depends on what radiator you have.

FC_fan

iTrader: (2)

Oh, I thought it just fit better in general. I heard it fit better then the taurus fan and used less amps? not that the taurus fan fits badly or anything. What I'm thinking for the moment is just situating the fan and running it off ignition for now. I have tomorrow off so hope there is something in the junk yard so I can do that. this weekend or when I have time I'm going to do the whole setup with a temp sensor but not that 2 tier one that you used. You said you never hit the hi setting with the taurus so I'm just going to wire up the low setting to the single temp switch and wire the hi function to a toggle in the car (if the villager fan has 2 settings, I don't recall right now but will read up again). now, if I use a more normal style single temp sensor, you said it would be well placed on the water pump. is there already a threaded location there or would it have to be drilled and tapped?

75-78F degrees today and the car had a hard time keeping normal temp even going 60mph. was coasting when possible with heat blasting to keep it under 1/2. so its undrivable until the fan change (I hope thats the problem).

FC_fan

iTrader: (2)

ordering my water pump on rockauto and came across these 1986 MAZDA RX-7 Radiator Fan Relay

#3651 looks decent. There isn't really a description other then the pic and its under the " electrical switch and relay>radiator fan relay" catagory. it looks to me that its a relay with a little wire, a fuse holder, and something that you screw in (I only assume its a temp sensor? I don't really know). I don't have a pick and pull around here and the usual junk yard will not let me go "browsing" around for parts. so it would be easier for me to just buy the relay, fuse holder, and temp switch. is that what that kit is?

FC_fan

iTrader: (2)

^figured that kit out but went with a temp probe kit for ease of install. Might get a screw in sensor later on. installed the villager fan hap hazardly for now. zip tied it to the oem bolt holes on sides and top. fit snug, didn't move on crap roads with my pbm coilovers so good enough for now. I wired it to ignition and grounded to the battery negative for time being, utilized an inline fuse holder but no relay yet. I will do the correct wiring when my kit arrives.

RESULTS SO FAR: it seems to be ok. there are a few small gaps on the sides between fan shroud and radiater so might be running a couple degrees hotter then it should be. but it seems to have fixed the problem. its around 75-78F out today and temps didn't move past 1/3 (normal is 1/4 but it is kinda hot) idling and holding rpms at 3k for 15 minutes. I wired the high speed setting so I think that this is a half fix and maybe the water pump needs replace to but its on its way along with a rad cap. should be good after that gets done next weekend.

anyone care to make a diagram for the 2 speed circuit where I will be using a single temp probe for the low speed setting and 1 relay, inline fuse holder. High speed will be on a toggle in the car on a relay and fuse as well. how would I wire this setup up? would the relays have o be tied to each other so it shuts off the low speed circuit when I flip the high speed toggle?

FC_fan

iTrader: (2)

have I been abandoned?

well I have only found one schematic that I understand but uses 3 relays to control a 2 speed fan. they were using to separate temp sensors (one for each speed) so I don't see the problem with substituting a toggle for one of the temp switches. seems to me it would work the same I think. just take that wire from the relay that would go to temp switch and send it to the source on the toggle. then hook up the battery and ground for toggle. I should use a 3 prong toggle right?

can I use 2 relays (one for the low speed temp sensor, one for high speed toggle) and just tee a wire from the toggle to the low speed relay (but where on relay) that would turn that relay off when the toggle is in the "on" position for high speed? I need a lot of help with this guys.

edit: this is the 3 relay setup I found. just substitute toggle for high speed switch, that would work right? is 3 relays necessary to do this, its not possible with 2? http://www.cb4x4.com/PDFs/Electrical...%20diagram.jpg

clokker

iTrader: (2)

If you use the Volvo relay, as I did here it takes care of the problem for you.

FC_fan

iTrader: (2)

I thought the volvo relay required that dual temp sensor you picked up, the vw one I think it was? could I use a temp switch for the low and a toggle for the high with that relay? I'll look at it again but I suppose by you saying that, there must be a way. I guess I run the temp switch for low speed off B1 and the toggle off B2 of your diagram in your thread? yes, I know nothing about complicated circuits and need it spelled out. I'm trying, I've done a lot of reading and research on this but still have a hard time. I'll probably use that volvo relay then if it can be done that way.

I also overlooked a simple fact. I run full stock airbox, which has the section that goes over the radiator. that doesn't really fit anymore under the hood lol. I bolted it with the 2 front bolts and its kinda warped over the new fan (nothing pinched) but my hood is right on it. now I need to go cold air I suppose.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

So it was the fan clutch.