danec020

Ok guys, I know this topic comes up alot but bear with me and see all what I went threw before posting .

First off it is a 88 TII 10th AE. It is completely stock under the hood besides Koyo Radiator. I pulled the engine and rebuilt it using the RA Basic kit. I decided to remove emissions while it was out because I thought it would make the install process easier as well by getting rid of all the rats net. So i went through and did Dales write up and removed the Split Air Pipe, ACV, Air Pump, EGR, OMP and did Rotary Resurrections TB Mod.

I had to replace my UIM and LIM due to a crack in them, when I recieved it the UIM had 4 nipples on the back side where my old one only had 3... So I assumed it is an S5 UIM and that the extra top nipple is for the secondary injector air bleed (let me know if I am incorrect) so I just capped it.

Now for the fun stuff. My car won't start, so I went searching for the problem so I decided to start with fuel. I went to my fuel pump and checked the voltage to see if it was getting voltage and it was, but to double test it I pulled it and cranked the car and it shot fuel about 12ft..... So it works... Then I pulled my CAS and spun it with the key on the on position while listening for the injectors to click. I could hear them click so I assume they are working. (I just had the flow charted and cleaned so they arent clogged) Then I checked spark and to my surprise I have spark... All 4 plugs have spark plugs with less than 75 miles on them and have spark...

So all I could come up with was my timing. I pulled the CAS opened the top up and aligned the bottom gear with the mark on the shaft. I aligned the yellow mark with the pin on the front housing cover. I stabed the CAS and made sure to notice the change in the gears so I could readjust it. A friend cranked the car while I shined the Timing light at the marks. The L1 was right on the yellow mark, so I moved on to the T1. Well it was on the yellow mark too..wtf... So I adjusted the CAS and got it on the red mark, but went back to L1 and it was now on the red mark as well. So I decided to check L2 and T2, but they were no where near the marks. And this is where I am at today....

But my question is, shouldnt the car start with bad timing and just run poorly? Is there something I could be over looking that could cause it not to start? I checked all vacuums and all the wiring I could think of. Are there any wires I could have crossed or not plugged in at all that could cause this? Maybe the emissions removeal vacuums? Some might be in the wrong spott? I have the the LIM angled nipple going to the FPR, the Nipple between the Oil Injectors to the Second to top one (out of the four) for air bleed since it sees no vacuum, the bottom nipple has vacuum so I put the twin scroll up to it, the middle larger one was for the catch can and caped it? The back of the UIM I connected the Air Bypass Valve, Air Pressure sensor with pill. I capped everything else.

All fuses have been checked under the driver and under the hood. They all have been replaced if bad so shouldn't be a fuse problem.

Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I got this car knowing nothing with the intent on learning how to work on it. I been working on getting this car running for 9 months now and I have learned a lot thanks to this forum and the FSM. But I think I am completely stuck right now. I am unexperienced so I could be over looking something small that you guys might see all the time. I appreciate all the help. Thanks!

Dane

Houstonderk

iTrader: (3)

Push start it. seriously. I did mine and hit my fuel switch and started up and ran fine but didn't idle or start itself becuase of the low compression.

danec020

I am going to try and push start it today but what about the timing issue? anyone?

Houstonderk

iTrader: (3)

Sometimes people will put the crank angle sensor gear on backwards and the only thing to do about that is flip it around or move the CAS around 180 degrees. But thats exactly what my rebuild did and pushed it in gear and started up.

bkm_rx7

^ i was under the impression that when u start the car, the CAS will set the correct timing...am i wrong?

danec020

Well I thought since it was setting the timing of the firing of the spark plugs that even cranking it should be on time.. I dont know, bout to take a hammer to the car =P.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

If the CAS was stabbed correctly, you're fine. I'm fairly sure that the ECU runs zero split during cranking, which is what you are observing with your timing light.

A push start is often needed to start rebuilds do to very low initial compressing. Dumping about an ounce of oil into each chamber helps greatly.

danec020

Well I went and checked the battery today thinking maybe it wasnt enough juice. It turned out my battery was bad so I bought a new one today. Still wouldnt start but sounded much better, was raining all day so tomorrow I am going to put some oil in the plug holes and try to push start it. Ill let you guys know how it goes .

hondahater

iTrader: (2)

where in louisiana do you live? It was raining here all day as well

danec020

I am currently living in Lafayette, but the car is at my brothers house in Baton Rouge. Thus why it is kidna hard to work on it. I have to travel back and fourth a lot. Where you located?

hondahater

iTrader: (2)

lake charles. Good luck with the rebuild, just let us know how it goes with you push starting it.

bcool

Just a quick question, have you been unflooding your motor at all since you started cranking it?

wheelmanst

To address the timing issue, you will not see a split in the timing during cranking. The timing splits as it advances in higher revs such as over 2500 or 3 grand. To correctly check timing you will need to rev the car up to ~ 3k and shine the timing light. But, since it wont start thats kind of an issue Sorry I couldnt resist! but seriously, im with the guys on push starting it. That will start anything less than a motor with both rotors blown.
Thats crazy, Ive had my car for 9 months as well, and just got it running. Bought it blown and had a beast built by Pineapple Racing. Mine fired right up, but it was built with new rotor housings. Usually rebuilds with used rotor housings will have less initial compression and be harder to start. Good luck man, try unflooding it (MAKE SURE AND PULL EGI FUSE!) and crank her. If not, push start that bitch! It will go.

danec020

Tried to push start her for a hour straight. Dead exhausted lol. Still didnt start up, I pulled the plugs and put a little oil in there as well and no help. I checked all spark plugs to see if they smelt like fuel was getting to them. They smelled like fuel but werent wet with it. Like I said, I pulled the CAS and spun it and heard the injectors clicking, that means they are spraying correct? Also checked the ecu wires and for vacuum leaks and came up with nothing . Any other suggestions?

Thanks guys appreciate it.

Sideways7

iTrader: (7)

Have you check for spark recently?

wheelmanst

I would double check the fuel system again. If you pulled the plugs and they arent wet it may be a sign that not enough fuel is getting to the motor. I know when my old motor wouldnt start, I would pull the plugs and they would be wet. Double check everything like TPS, MAF etc. Chances are its just something small that has been overlooked.

hondahater

iTrader: (2)

in this rebuild did you change side seals and springs?

MARTIN

Use another car to push/pull it. And try restabing the cas. If timing is off, then when attempting to start you will have popping and backfiring. Make sure you have enough fuel and that the fuel pump is on while you crank. Since your injectors are firing, I assume you have spark.

Houstonderk

iTrader: (3)

When you spin the CAS the clicking is the spark plugs not the injectors. But yea you need to be able to push or pull it in gear to like at least 10 mph. And if you have a fuel pump switch remember to turn it on.

MARTIN

wrong.... the clicking is the injectors. If the plugs and wires are installed properly you shouldnt hear any spark.

Wuss up with all this false info thats been going on lately??

Houstonderk

iTrader: (3)

Well take out the sparkplugs and CAS and hang them on the fender and see iff they don't spark up. Ive done it plenty of times to see if the coils wires and plugs are all in working condition. Can even see if the plugs don't fire from being flooded. Check it.

danec020

I pulled the plugs again today to double check and yes they are all still firing. I am leaning towards the fuel issue myself. I know the fuel pump is working and that fuel is getting to the rails. I have actually pulled the injector off the rail and lots of fuel came out. But as stated the plugs aren't really wet when I pull them, so that is a concern of mine. I thought cause I heard them clicking that it should be spraying but maybe I am overlooking some vacuum or something for fuel pressure? I looked on my many emissions removeal pictures to see if there was anything i missed, well one of them has a solenoid valve on the FPR, but the others do not. Should there be one? Also on the block there is a hard line that runs across it right behind the water pump. I have a few of those capped off. If i remember I didnt have any information about them so I capped 1 or 2. If anyone knows what they are for could you explain it to me for learning sakes even if it doesnt pretain to this? thanks.

Dane
(Appreciate the help guys)

danec020

Also was wondering if there is any way I could perform a inexpensive compression test just to double check my work was good? As for the new side seals and springs, I kept my old side seals because they had hardly any wear on em, but i replaced the springs for cheap insurance. Side seals were the only seals reused.

(BTW I have turned it by hand and heard the equal huffs, so i know it has compression but I just figured it would be something to check as well.. I am just running out of ideas and feeling a little stuck lol.)

MARTIN

Well if the fuel is getting to the motor, and spark is also getting. Then you should check timing. Then push/pull start it with another vehicle and go atleast 10 mph. I usually do 15+.

homebrewer

If fuel isn't getting to the rotor, a short squirt of ether (starting fluid) into your intake would help your situation. I had recently did a poor man's rebuild of my golf cart motor and had to add some oil in the piston to seal the dykes ring and a squirt of ether to get her running.