MoJoeWinkie

As described in one of my other threads, I rear-ended someone on Monday. This is partly because I don't have ABS, thus the tires lock and skid if I hit the brakes full force. I'm not talented enough to pump the the brakes fast enough to improve the stopping distance in a split-second emergency situation. In case anyone doesn't already know, ABS means Anti-lock Braking System. It shortens stopping distance relative to a skid by applying as much force as is physically possible to keep the tires rotating during braking short of locking the brakes altogether. Static friction is greater then kinetic friction. Anyone who took physics should know exactly what this means. There's less friction between the road and skidding tires than there is between the road and non-skidding (rotating) tires. That means skidding is not desirable when you're desperately trying to not rear-end someone who unexpectedly slams their brakes in your face.

So therefore, I now have increased motivation to find out the answer to this question:

Can I add ABS to my car?

If anyone has any experience with this or knows the answer, please clue me in. Thanks!

peejay

Under 40mph, it's actually better to lock the brakes as far as stopping ability is concerned. ABS saves your *** by allowing you to steer.

You don't have to believe me, you can look it up.

The way to avoid rear-ending people is to not follow them so closely, so that you have a way out (steer around them). Your loss is unfortunate but everything should be treated as a learning experience.

To answer your question, yes it can, but you'd practically need an entire car for the parts.

'Vert in Vegas

Yes, you could do it.
It would be a lot of work and parts.
Don't do it.
You won't like it.
It doesn't work that well or reliably.

Turbonut

iTrader: (1)

ABS is indeed good if you may have a brake that "grabs" harder than another, thus allowing equal braking. My '88TII, which I purchased new, didn't have it and can't say I missed it, never needed it. My '89TII, which I also purchased new, has it, and I think it has only been activated once. Panic stop at an intersection. With the factory 4 piston calipers, and wide tires, really need to jam on the brakes to lock them up. As stated above, it could be added, but not worth the effort, nor time. You would need a completed "donor" car for all the parts.

DaleClark

iTrader: (55)

A few more notes -

The ABS system on the RX-7 isn't that bad, but it's an early design - newer cars have MUCH better systems. The biggest problem is the pumps are very much prone to leaking - 90% of RX-7's I've seen with ABS had leaking pumps, of which there is no easy cure.

If you were skidding, ABS wouldn't have helped - again, it would have just allowed you to steer. Probably the upgrade you need to look at is tires - good, sticky tires will dramatically improve stopping distances.

Dale

Gene

iTrader: (1)

Yes, the ABS system that came in the 89+ T2's si t3h SUx0r! I went through two ABS boxes and about a gallon of brake fluid and then decided to have it eliminated. I'm much happier without it, the pedal is a lot firmer now and I can manually modulate better than I could before. The EBC Green stuff brake pads are serving me well also. But as mentioned above, careful driving is the way to avoid accidents, not reliance on techology.

deadRX7Conv

It would be better and cheaper to just watch where you are going.
ABS isn't all its hyped up to be. Threshold braking is something you need to practice.
ABS, as well as SUVs/airbags/seatbelts/tractioncontrol/vehicle stability........, is a bandaid for poor driving skills.
I have never seen a car stop shorter with ALBS on dry pavement. Its main purpose is to help you control the car, especially if it is slippery out--rain, snow........

First, don't expect ABS to fix a bad brake issue. If the brakes pull to one side or whatever, get them fixed.
Second, watch where you are going.
Third, don't tailgate , and know what is going on in front of you.
Fourth, the best way to improve braking is with grippy tires & brake pads.
Fifth, practice 'threshold braking'. Learn how to panic stop without skidding. You will need an abandoned road to learn the limitations of your specific car and driving style.
Sixth, if you are so close to the car in front of you and are oblivious to the traffic situations in front of you, ABS will not make up for driver lack of attention.
Seventh, be glad if you didn't get a ticket for reckless driving, inattention, speeding, failure to control vehicle and all those nonsense tickets handed out during an accident.

rx7_ragtop

Yes, you COULD.

I wouldn't want to do that much work for something that isn't really important on a SPORTS CAR. Learn threshold braking.

It would be as much work as converting an NA to a TII. Not worth it.

Brad

vmb

no abs is gonna stop you from driving on someones bumper ,in other plain english ,it will not stop ignorance

Gefunk

Right and no, the answer to the thread is you don't want to try what you are implying. It is going to take you way to much time and money. However....WITH ABS, like myself, and poo poo to you people with leaking boxes, mine doesn't. Anyway, if you are a drifter you can use the ABS kick to loose traction, works real well if you have ever tried it.

jeff_oner

ABS sucks. I'm glad I don't have it, one less thing to break. And every car I have driven with ABS threw me off when "panic breaking". on another note I like the ability to lock up all four wheels

Barwick

Where do you get off saying that? Locked up tires sliding across the ground don't stop as well as tires rolling along with the brake pads modulating the friction.

MoJoeWinkie

I wasn't tailgating, I'm actually an excellent driver. I have never before been at fault in an auto accident. When you're following behind someone at 2 seconds of distance, as recommended by all Driver's Ed instruction manuals and all driver safety courses, you'll still in trouble if the car you're behind stops abruptly. I know all the physics behind the advantages of ABS vs. Non ABS, and if I'd had it then I might have not had a collision.

I gad a full brake job done recently, so that's probably why I could lock all four tires. The tires are less than 2 years old, they were brand new aqua-treads from Les Schwab when I bought them.

I was fully aware of the traffic around me and I was far from ignorant of what was going on in front of me. Why do you think I hit my brakes?

Skidding is skidding is skidding, you cannot effectively steer when you're skidding. ABS doesn't allow the tires to skid PERIOD, thus allowing you to steer. Even being able to steer would have helped because then I could have gone onto the sidewalk. I remember that there was a driveway right there for a smooth transition for my right tires onto the sidewalk, had I been able to take advantage of it or think fast enough to steer right rather than instinctively and reflexively hitting my brakes.

So bottom line, what would it take to get a reliable ABS system? I didn't start this thread so people could scold me on my nonexistent bad driving, I started it so I could get information. Thank you.

Felix Wankel

At least a thousand dollars, unless you are extremely lucky enough to find a donor car that has a good box.

ABS box (A new box is over a grand), ABS computer, wheel sensors, master cylinder, brake lines, wiring, etc.

MoJoeWinkie

Can you make me a complete list of everything I'd need? I want that option available to me if I decide to do it, but I'd need all the information first. If you can do that, I'd appreaciate it. Thanks!

peejay

At speeds that low, the difference is negligible.

From a C&D article...

"What would a *real* expert say? Carl Lopez is the author of the insightful new book 'Going Faster: Mastering the Art of Race Driving'. I called him at his office at the Skip Barber Racing School. 'If you're going less than 40mph, by all means, lock them up,' he said. 'Instantly.'"

peejay

Just buy an ABS-equipped model and transfer everything over that looks different.

DaleClark

iTrader: (55)

Ah! Aquarock tires. Those things are horrible - try some real performance tires and you'll be amazed at the difference.

Dale

Kai

In all the times I have been sent to driver's school, I have never heard any instructor say two seconds. The teaching standard now is three seconds, plus one second for every driving hazard i.e. low light, gravel on the road, oil, rain, etc.

As for reliable ABS, however, your best bet would be to sell your RX-7 and buy a newer Integra or something similar. Older, first-gen ABS systems on our RX's were not that great. In our cars its just more hassle and weight then it is worth. Who knows, if the RX-8 might have a good ABS system if it ever comes out... so there you go... start saving for an RX-8

DaleClark

iTrader: (55)

And on the subject of what it takes to install ABS -

Quite a lot. Off the top of my head -

ABS computer
ABS wiring harness to pump
ABS pump and brackets
Master cylinder
Brake booster
Front and rear brake lines
Wheel speed sensors
Toothed rings for wheel hubs

I don't even know if the wiring for the wheel speed sensors are present in a non-ABS car. The amount of work to do the conversion would be exorbitant, as would the cost. Again, 90% of the ABS pumps I've seen have leaked, and I'm sure the other 10% were fixin' to leak.

First thing I would do is get some decent tires. Anyone who buys crap tires for an FC should be shot - I've seen countless mishaps and accidents due to bad tires. It's a sports car, it needs sports car tires, not 400 treadwear 80,000 mile grocery getter tires.

Realistically, there are going to be accident situations that can't be avoided even by an expert driver - hell, look at the number of wrecks in auto racing, and these guys are pros. I don't think, really, that your car, brakes, or driving skills are at fault - I think it was just a bad situation that had no out.

Dale

Felix Wankel

Its not. Look in the wheelwells of a non-ABS car, there are rubber plugs where the wiring would come through on an ABS car.

I noticed this while taking the Suspension Tech springs off a non-ABS GXL and putting them on my (leaky) ABS equipped TII.

pip

Did all TII's come with ABS or was it an option? b/c I would bet dollars to donuts that I dopnt have ABS.

DaleClark

iTrader: (55)

ABS is an option. It's less common on the '87-88 TII's and more common on the '89-91 TII's.

Just look for the giant ABS pump in the engine bay.

Dale

Snrub

iTrader: (1)

When I took drivers ed they said that threshold breaking is more effective than ABS on dry pavement. However it's easy for a driver to bugger it up and thus ABS probably provides a better gaurentee of stoping. In slippery conditions ABS is very good idea. Let's be realistic, how many of us have lots of experience doing an emergancy stop on a freeway due, to an accident, in foul conditions?

If you mash ABS brakes on dry pavement, you should hear intermittant squeeling. Watch a car TV show doing a brake test and you will notice this.

ABS will allow you to brake while actually somewhat in a corner, which is why I've heard F1 outlawed ABS brakes. (competitive passes usually occur in part by outbraking an opponent)

MoJoeWinkie

The reason I got those aquatreads is because I live in Portland OR where it rains nonstop 9 months out of the year, and I had 2 driving-intensive jobs where I used my own car.

So if ABS isn't feasible, should I just talk to the guys at Les Schwab? They're the major tire company in the northwest.

I'm not trying to bandage my bad driving, because I'm the most defensive 22 year old driver you'll ever know. But **** happens, and I want to be prepared as best I can. Thanks guys.