jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

Remember, this is a *duster* gas that is manufactured to be discharged into the atmosphere. It legally changes when you use it as a refrigerant, but it won't destroy the ozone/kill.polar.bears or anything like that.

I wouldn't add it to someones 134a stock by having a shop recover it. That wouldn't be nice.


Maybe you should use it to blow out your keyboard on your PC...

AGreen

iTrader: (11)

I know, I know. Just playing devil's advocate here

I'm just stating the obvious for everyone who does this: Be courteous, and don't neglect to at least put a sticker of some sort on your car if you decide to sell it to a non-technical savvy person who will be taking their vehicle to a service shop.

Can you imagine how mad and confused that would make technicians if their 134a machines got contaminated with a batch of 152!

I *cough* recovered the "refrigerant" from my truck tonight and replaced it with 2 cans of 152a, vs. the 3 cans I used yesterday. So approximately 24oz, but once again, probably a little less due to bleeding and what little bit got left in the lines, etc. So probably right at 22-23 oz, which is perfect. What a difference THAT made. I was a little worried yesterday when driving it around. It was making a little bit of a weird noise, and the engine was very labored. Now, it's no longer making that noise, and the engine runs just fine. The only way I know the compressor comes on is the little click noise, and that's if I'm sitting at a stop with the radio off. I figured that the noise and roughness was going to be inherent; it's a 21 year old truck with 240,000 miles on it. After recovering and recharging, it's smoooooooth once again!

Thanks a lot my good sir, your information on this new refrigerant is going to change the way I do AC systems from now on.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

Update:

I just added another car to my 152a fleet. My 2004 Mazda6. The A/C was kinda average. I've only had the car a year. It is an 'S' model with the automatic climate control.

Today was 88* here. First I tested the vent temps. Hmmm, not too impressive, mid to upper 40's on high recirc, confirmed some compressor cycling both while idling and while on the highway. That might indicate low refrigerant.

I tested running pressures. High side was a little too high for the obviously low levels. I suspect that the refrigerant is contaminated with air. If I had NOT run the car but instead had tested the pressure at a known temperature in the morning, I could have confirmed the contamination. Simply by comparing the known Temperature to the temp/pressure chart for 134a. If pressures matched, no contamination. If the pressure was too high, it is contaminated with air. If it was too low, it might be contaminated with another refrigerant.

I verified that both fans were correctly operating. Last summer I had replaced the dual fans (one fan had a burned out motor when I got the car.) and also had the cooling control module replaced under a Service Notice. Everything was working happy.

Confirmed that the recirc was sealing and that outside air was in fact outside air.

Then I replaced the cabin air filter. I replaced it last summer when I bought the car, but hey for $3 on close out at RockAuto, I have several of them on the shelf.

I evacuated, vacuumed and charged. When I was evacuating, I found that there was fluorescent dye in the system, so someone *had* worked on this A/C. Unless they were a pro, they probably put a hose full air into the system while messing with it. OEM charge of R134a is 1.1 lb which is 17.7 oz. 65% of that to calculate for the R152a =11.44 oz. So I used a 12 oz duster.

Now the vent temps are outstanding. 38-40* on the highway high fan recirc. on. That is a full 10 degrees colder than it was before servicing the A/C.

That is how it's done.

JustJeff

iTrader: (13)

Man am I having a hard time getting a new dryer that has the bracket on it. Of course my small town doesn't have any shops with any in stock so I can visual inspect before ordering. I've ordered at two different shops and neither have brackets.

MaczPayne

iTrader: (5)

Where have you ordered from?

JustJeff

iTrader: (13)

Advance Auto and Pep Boys, gonna try Autozone, O'Reilly's and Napa (or whatever Napa has changed to) next.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/cat...&parentId=63-0



I am the Man.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

http://www.amazon.com/Four-Seasons-3.../dp/B000CSXNTK



http://www.ebay.com/itm/Four-Seasons...4daf#vi-ilComp

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

Everco 33487

Four Seasons 33487

BTW, the Autozone part number and link was on page 2 of this thread.

cluosborne

The correct part for a non-turbo with the Sanden compressor is Airizona Mobile Air 37-13365, Accumulator/drier/receiver – 3/8” MIO fittings, 2.5” x 8” with welded bracket, $20.63. www.ackits.com

nycgps

iTrader: (4)

Im going to recharge my ac the second time soon. I still have a load of freeze 12 so i will use them first. ....

Why second time? Cuz i rebuild my engine and i mmmmm let the gas out? Oh man i probably raped a few polar bears like that

This is an excellent thread! Thumbs up to jackhild5

Oh btw, you can get tem at rockauto for cheaper price, also while you are at it, you can het te o ring kit too.

But note, when i bought mine at rockauto, four season shipped me the drier but not the o ring, they were out of stock at that time, and i have to get it from amazon instead, i will snape a pic of the drier and o ring set later tonight

nycgps

iTrader: (4)

Btw i have a question for you jackhild59

I have been thinking of improving te ac on my rx8, all rx8 owners know the ac on that car suck donkey ***** and will give up almost anything above 85 degrees. 100 or above? Forget about it! Might as well keep just the fan on and leave the ac part off so u dont get as pissed

The system comes with r134a obviously, but as far as i know there is no drier, and of course it comes with pag oil.

So i wonder, if i want to convert it to use my freeze12 left over or air duster aka r152a, what do i need to do? Should i take the compressor out, flush it wit ester a few times, take the condenser out clean it with brake cleaner a few times blow dry it, add ester oil in compressor and recharge? I dont want to replace the expansion valve if its not nesseary... Its a royal pita for rx8 to do thay, whole dash has to be removed.

JustJeff

iTrader: (13)

Thanks for the heads up and relinking it.

cluosborne

Unless you are abosolutely sure of the correct part number, I don't recommend RockAuto for AC parts. I ordered an drier/receiver once and it was the wrong part. AMA is better on parts and service.

nycgps

iTrader: (4)

I punch the item number in and got the right part.

All my other purchase are ok so far, even if i just use their parts catalog, never had any problem

**** happens of course, autozone got me te wrong drier before, so its not just rockauto thing

JustJeff

iTrader: (13)

Went to Autozone today with part number in hand. They didn't have it in stock, it was $41 and it couldn't be at the store till the 17th...

I always prefer not having to mail order cause my work hours are the same as delivery and inevitably I end up having signature required and two days later I can pick it up.

nycgps

iTrader: (4)

they never have them in stock, people rarely get them from Autozone.

they said 17th but they will usually get it on the next business day. trust me. just call on Monday or Tuesday, they probably get them already.

Get it from Amazon or one of it's reseller for almost 1/2 the price. I know you have to work and stuff. when they miss your delivery, just call in and tell them to hold it at their office, then go pick it up after work. their center usually opens till 9 or 10 o clock just for that.

AGreen

iTrader: (11)

I have to hand it to him, I owe Jackhild59 a lot. My truck's AC is working great, after a month and still going strong!!

I'm probably going to get one of those parallel flow condensers from ACkits.com for the Rx7. The Rx7's r12 charge is still there, but it's not working at it's fullest extent after v-mounting, so I'm banking on the fact that the parallel condenser is so much better. I also may have to to put a pusher fan for AC, so I'll have the pull fan for the radiator, and the push/pull for the AC. That's only if the AC still doesn't work like I want it to after the parallel flow condenser and R152a charge

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

Most A/C issues with modern cars are airflow and subsequent lack of subcooling /liquid flow to the expansion device. R152a helps with this somewhat.

Before you start to mod the system, verify that is is behaving as intended. If something isn't working right, fix it first. Fan operation and staging is the first thing to check. You cannot even really check the refrigerant if the fans are not operating correctly.

I am unfamiliar with the RX8 system. It does use pag. Does this car NOT have a drier or a suction accumulator??? I cannot find one listed. FWIW, I cannot find one listed for my 2004 Mazda6 either...hmmm.

I see it has a trinary pressure switch. Details says it cuts the compressor off at 29psi-this is for a super low refrigerant event). It also cuts the compressor off at 455 psi. This is about the time you could expect a hose to burst. Somewhere in between (likely at about 275), it switches the cooling fans to high speed. Low speed should come on with the compressor. One a two fan system, sometimes low speed is one fan, high speed means the second fan comes on. Do you know how the fans were intended to run from the factory?

R152a is compatible with PAG, no need to change that. Freeze12 (NOT R12!) would be completely compatible with the system as well, with no change to the lubricant.

On my Mazda6 there was a TSB that replaced a defectively designed fan control unit. Then there was a TSB to replace the replaced unit. I bought the car with 90,000 miles7 years old. It had not had either service done. Mazda dealer did it for me free, just as the factory intended. Made a world of difference on my A/C. Mazda may have had trouble with the RX* cooling as well. Check to see if there is a known issue. Then Job #1 is to confirm that the cooling fans run as intended when the A/C runs.


If you verify everything is as it should be, the first mod I would start with a is a condenser fan pusher that ran with the compressor circuit. Then I would vacuum and charge 152a at about 70% of the factory 134a charge. Those two things will very likely solve any remaining A/C issue with the car.

Good luck, I just dumped a lot of info on you.

Jack

JustJeff

iTrader: (13)

Normally I'd drive to pick one up if one was located at another store. I don't mind paying more if I can have it in hand same day. In this case almost twice the price is worth waiting for shipping....hell with the money I just saved I can buy some cuts of steak and grill out :P

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

Got the answer from an A/C forum and confirmed via parts supply: The RX8 has a condenser with integrated drier. Not replaceable separately. So does my 6.

Wierd.

That said, the condensers are not very expensive. Rockauto lists 3 parts: $73/$101/$120.

nycgps

iTrader: (4)

Rx-8 has bad airflow, it's better than FD of course, still not as good. but the problem is with the A/C is it's weak as **** and everybody who has a rx8 knows it

It's working the way it is ... which means WTF ARE YOU THINKING MAZDA ?

It's part of the condenser I think
*ahh, you found out in your last post*

Both series of Rx-8 has 2 cooling fans pulling I think about 1300-1500 cfm each (I don't remember the exact numbers right now)

S1 and S2 has different fan speed. on S1 there is only Low and high speed, on S2 they changed it to 3 Speed (Low, Med, High)

On S1, when A/C turns on both fans will spin at low speed, no matter how cool the coolant is, if A/C is not on, the cooling fan will not kick on until it reach 97 Celsius at low speed, when the coolant temp has reach (or over) 101 Celsius, the system will automatically switch it to high speed.

S2 is about the same, except they redesigned the shroud and newer faster Fan motor to get higher speed and better air pulling capacity.

I'm not a FC guru, but I know the Rx-8 inside out, hell I can take the whole car apart and put it back together with handtools (ok, maybe a cherry picker and tranny jack for obvious reasons) . Just not very familiar with A/C kind of stuff (I know how to take it apart and put it back together tho)

Didn't know that, I guess I can keep using PAG with Freeze12. but isn't Ester a "better" alternative ? but I might have to flush it couple of times before I can get rid of all PAG out of the system ?

there is no known issue (or should I say, this is a known issue but Mazda didn't do **** about it)

they did had a TSB on the A/C Amplifer, but it only applies to early 2004 model. not mine.

And my car has Racing beat Flash, which lowered the Fan-On temp by 10 Celsius (87 and 92)


So, you mean I should "let 134a go away free" and use 152a(duster!) and not Freeze12? I know those 152a is cheap (like what, 11 bux for 3 cans at my Local Costco ?) but I wanna finish the Freeze12 first ... if I use Freeze12, what would u recommend? like how much should I put it in ? I think 60% is enough ?


When I am ready to do this, I will just buy a new condenser I guess.


Thanks !

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

When replacing an o-ring, always lube it with the oil you are using. In most cases, Ester. This keeps the o-ring from getting pinched and helps it seat evenly.

There is also professional lube/sealant called Nylog. This is highly regarded by professionals for reducing customer come-backs. It is available at ACKITS.com. I have never used it but I keep intending to try it.


Thanks JustJeff for pointing out the need to lube the o-rings upon assembly.

-Jack

cluosborne

You can also use a product called Nylog assembly lube on the o-rings. Nylog Blue for R134a and other alternative refrigerants or Nylog Red for older R12 systems. I used Nylog when I put together my system and I have no leaks.

Remember to only lube the o-rings and not the threads on the fittings. However, when installing the adapter fittings on the schrader valves, coat the valve threads.

jackhild59

iTrader: (7)

Is there an echo in here?