BNR Turbo's, Q and A
06-09-05, 07:45 AM
#26
http://rx7.com/cgi-local/2ndgencalc.cgi go there to calculate what injectors will support what hp. Once you have calculated what hp the 720cc secondaries will support then base your turbo upgrade to that. Also bukwild is right you do need a frount mounted intercooler before you get this thing because the stock tmic is not going to cut it. As far as a stand alone ems as it is nice to have it is not nessasary. I'm pushing 15psi and I'm on stock ecu however I do have an rtek chip that retards timing past 9psi of boost.
06-09-05, 11:04 AM
#28
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and by the way i was only asking what my limits are, i want 720cc's and a turbo upgrade ( yes i will have supporting mods ) and just want to know what turbo i can run....
06-09-05, 06:52 PM
#31
Originally Posted by Archangels
and by the way i was only asking what my limits are, i want 720cc's and a turbo upgrade ( yes i will have supporting mods ) and just want to know what turbo i can run....
You can run the stage 4 if you want, but you have to keep the boost down.
Do you understand what I am trying to ask you? HOW MUCH BOOST/HORSEPOWER do you want?
Turbo doesnt really matter, its how you use it that defines your fueling. And while I am on that tack, I am a FIRM believer in having MORE fuel then needed. So if I were to use an SAFC with a Stage 2 or 3 Turbo, I would go 550 primaries and 890 or so secondaries.
Rat
06-09-05, 09:52 PM
#32
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well now that i think about it i will only really want to run a conservative 12psi'ish....
thats why i ask you which turbo would best suit me....
i think stage 4 is overkill thats why i was looking at stage 2 and 3, unless you have a different opinion :P
thats why i ask you which turbo would best suit me....
i think stage 4 is overkill thats why i was looking at stage 2 and 3, unless you have a different opinion :P
06-09-05, 11:22 PM
#33
Here is my opinion:
If you have a stock motor, and you are looking for 12 PSI, then the stage 2 may very well suit your purpose. If you have a ported motor, then why not go with the stage 3? It leaves you some flexibility if you decide you want more out of the motor.
The Stage 4 is a whole different animal.
I installed a stage 4 on a stock motor, which may have hurt me in the overall picture, due to the fact that it does take a bit of work to spool. HOWEVER, I am on a standalone, which gives me more flexibility when it comes to the spool-up range on the turbo, and allows me some spool area tuning. This has VASTLY helped my spool.
If you have a stock motor, and you are looking for 12 PSI, then the stage 2 may very well suit your purpose. If you have a ported motor, then why not go with the stage 3? It leaves you some flexibility if you decide you want more out of the motor.
The Stage 4 is a whole different animal.
I installed a stage 4 on a stock motor, which may have hurt me in the overall picture, due to the fact that it does take a bit of work to spool. HOWEVER, I am on a standalone, which gives me more flexibility when it comes to the spool-up range on the turbo, and allows me some spool area tuning. This has VASTLY helped my spool.
06-09-05, 11:33 PM
#34
if hks is making a new chip
why cant it use different injectors?
the injector sizes are in the rom chip
just because the stock chip was designed for 550 doesnt mean a hks reprogramed one MUST be for 550....
why cant it use different injectors?
the injector sizes are in the rom chip
just because the stock chip was designed for 550 doesnt mean a hks reprogramed one MUST be for 550....
Originally Posted by Node
yeah, HKS does have a chip for their upgraded turbo kit, think its like a td07 or 20g or something, maybe you could tune from that, but thats still fairly ghetto
F-Con is great, but can't handle diff injector sizes like the S-AFC can
The S-AFC still can't control primaries at cranking cause theyre WOT and the AFM signal has no effect on that.
maybe see if you can save up and get a standalone or find a Power FC for S5 FC on yahoo.co.jp or something and sell your stock ECU/AFM/F-Con to recoop some of the money later.
You still have to pay for tuning and whatever else you need, but standalone is better.
and he has a 89 s5, rtek 2.0 is s4 only as of now
F-Con is great, but can't handle diff injector sizes like the S-AFC can
The S-AFC still can't control primaries at cranking cause theyre WOT and the AFM signal has no effect on that.
maybe see if you can save up and get a standalone or find a Power FC for S5 FC on yahoo.co.jp or something and sell your stock ECU/AFM/F-Con to recoop some of the money later.
You still have to pay for tuning and whatever else you need, but standalone is better.
and he has a 89 s5, rtek 2.0 is s4 only as of now
06-10-05, 02:27 AM
#35
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well my motor is basically stock, S4 block with all S5 externals....
i want moderate power, wana hit low 12's and all aswell, and i did notice that the stage 2 is capeable of getting me there....
it's a tossup between stage 2 and 3 right now, there isnt a big difference between the 2 either....
i want moderate power, wana hit low 12's and all aswell, and i did notice that the stage 2 is capeable of getting me there....
it's a tossup between stage 2 and 3 right now, there isnt a big difference between the 2 either....
06-10-05, 03:19 PM
#36
Originally Posted by Archangels
well my motor is basically stock, S4 block with all S5 externals....
i want moderate power, wana hit low 12's and all aswell, and i did notice that the stage 2 is capeable of getting me there....
it's a tossup between stage 2 and 3 right now, there isnt a big difference between the 2 either....
i want moderate power, wana hit low 12's and all aswell, and i did notice that the stage 2 is capeable of getting me there....
it's a tossup between stage 2 and 3 right now, there isnt a big difference between the 2 either....
As in low 12s in the quarter mile?
06-10-05, 03:27 PM
#37
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yes, on the site they say the stage 2 at approx. 14psi ( if i remember correctly ) propels the 7 down the 1/4 in 12.3secs....
but which turbo would best suit what i want and what i want to use is what i'm asking....
but which turbo would best suit what i want and what i want to use is what i'm asking....
06-10-05, 04:07 PM
#38
I don't understand what your not getting here man. some dinky 720cc injectors will not get you that much further then stock. Put some 890cc injectors in the secondaries and be done with it. Move away from your fcon if you don't think it will work and get an safc. You will not be hitting 12 anything with 720cc secondary injectors unless you want your car to go boom. So now go pickup some 890cc injectors sell your fcon buy an safc and get a stage III, done.
call Bryan if we are not answering your question but I don't see how we are not answering your question as you keep saying the same thing and it keeps getting answered over and over and over again.
call Bryan if we are not answering your question but I don't see how we are not answering your question as you keep saying the same thing and it keeps getting answered over and over and over again.
Last edited by hondahater; 06-10-05 at 04:10 PM.
06-10-05, 05:00 PM
#39
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for some reason i'm not understanding most of this, the car right now runs low 13's and thats on stock injectors, pump, and Fcon, i just dont understand why i cant tune the Fcon to support bigger injectors like that without the chip.... it's nearly like an SAFC, so personally i dont understand what the difference is....
thanx for all the help though guys, guess i'll check into 890cc injectors and a way to control them properly, possibly my Fcon....
thanx for all the help though guys, guess i'll check into 890cc injectors and a way to control them properly, possibly my Fcon....
06-10-05, 06:33 PM
#40
Lets dispell one myth right now.
Just bolting on a BNR stage 2 and cranking up the boost will NOT get you into the 12s. There is a VAST difference between what a Stage 2 is CAPABLE of, and what it will do on YOUR car.
I am more then confident that a BNR stage 2 or 3 can propell a car down the 1320 in under 12 seconds, but with the proper supporting mods, and tuning. A turbo is not a SIMPLE BOLT ON MOD...
Just bolting on a BNR stage 2 and cranking up the boost will NOT get you into the 12s. There is a VAST difference between what a Stage 2 is CAPABLE of, and what it will do on YOUR car.
I am more then confident that a BNR stage 2 or 3 can propell a car down the 1320 in under 12 seconds, but with the proper supporting mods, and tuning. A turbo is not a SIMPLE BOLT ON MOD...
06-11-05, 01:27 AM
#42
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hah, well thanx guys.... in all honesty i just wanted to know what injectors ( 720cc's ) would best suit my turbo needs, and which would "play nice" and not lean out....
thats why i'm pondering either stage 2 or 3, i dont see a major difference between either of them, thats why i ask....
thanx again....
thats why i'm pondering either stage 2 or 3, i dont see a major difference between either of them, thats why i ask....
thanx again....
06-11-05, 12:33 PM
#43
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Originally Posted by J-Rat
Sure you can, if you enjoy flooding.
Ever.
The 4 x 720 setup is a much better idea than stock primary's with 850 or 890cc secondaries. First it makes tuning the set up much easier and smoother on a safc. Most importantly however, leaving the stock primary injectors in with an upgraded turbo leaves a dangerous area under which you can pop your motor: Cruising on the highway well under secondary activation point. In that situation it's very easy to obtain full boost before the secondaries ever come online. With much more air being crammed into the engine than the stock turbo provided, this is a good place for pre-ignition to occur.
I have been running a BNR stage II with 4 x 720's and an emanage since last march. I have a little bit more headroom on these injectors. At 14 pounds I was hitting 90 percent injector duty cycles. Of course while running the stock intercooler, these high boost numbers aren't very beneficial at all and with the super heated intake temps could be dangerous to the motor. I usually run my turbo at around 10 pounds, it feels quicker than the old turbo did when I ran it to the raggged edge at 1 bar. With a front mount and some decent tires I feel this set up will do high 12's @111-112 all day long.
Last edited by gsracer; 06-11-05 at 12:43 PM.
06-11-05, 01:58 PM
#44
first off the stage III bnr doesn't reach full boost till way later in the rpm range 4.5k or so. I've been on the interstage plenty of times and durring cruze in 5th gear I have to get to about 3.5 or 4k rpm before I start boosting. with the rtek the secondary cut on is 3.5k. Anyways also there has been many people that I've talked to say they started flooding big time with the larger primaries including reted I believe and many others. You may be one of the few that 720cc injectors work in the primary location so consider yourself lucky. I bought two sets of 720cc injectors witch is not cheap only to find out my engine would flood so I had to sell both sets at a lost just to get some 890cc injectors in a hurry.
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