this is STILL an NA vs Turbo thread?? wow, no wonder the thread starter hasn't come back looking for help.

 

Bang For Bucks Mod On a NA

Remove Emissions
Weight Reduction
Full Exhaust
AFC II Dynotuned or WB02 Tuned
Port Manifolds/TB Mod
Cone Filter
MSD

Nice conservative mods which will be fun on a na.

-Andrew

 

I take it, all of these mod ideas would be completely useless for an NA automatic, correct? I know i know, mostly all hate automatics. I like to cruise in them.

 

They wont be useless, but you wont be as fast as a 5speed.

 

Good enough for me. But (assuming) if I were to get a toruque converter, wouldn't that make a difference? Not saying I'm going for this, but it's out of curiosity.

 

How much did your fuel milage improve with the CD ignition, I have just installed the jacobs fc1000 for that same reason,so it better pay for it self...

Gil

 

I wouldn't call a high 14 low 15 second quarter mile "fast" either.

BTW, I got my N/A a year ago in over-all good shape (minus the peeling paint) with about 30,000 miles on the rebuilt streetported engine, with a Bonez Race-Pipe, Old-skool HKS exhaust, Light Steel Flywheel, and Bonez Street-Comp Clutch all for $2000. Actually the only engine performance mod I paid for and did myself was the Bonez Cone filter I just installed a couple weeks ago. It's a daily driver for me and if you want bang for the buck performance, I think I just beat the $3800 TII you sold. Did I mention that it's more reliable, easier to find parts for, lighter, and runs off cheaper gas?

Don't get me wrong I would absolutely LOVE to own a TII. That being said, I needed a daily driver and my N/A is overall cheaper, more reliable, and just as fast (faster?) and fun as a stock TII!

 

I want to put in 5spd in my auto car, drop most of the parts too.

 

as far as removing the sound deadening tar goes, id like to do that w/o destroying the interior(shes my daily still )does anyone have any tips on how to do this? i know you have to lift up the carpet. is there a way to do it so you can put it back and still keep it looking nice?(already searched)

 

The carpet will go back over it either way and no one will see it, so.... it doesn't really matter how it looks, right?

 

When i removed the carpet in my other car it went back in fine.but it left me feeling like i tore it up somehow,maybe i knew what it looked like without carpet. i dont know.but if /when you take it out it will give you a very good chance to clean it and make it look new.



guy you put a 5-sp in your car and you will put a smile on your face...i garrantee that i still chuckle to myself everytime i break the tires shifting into 3rd!its the best mod you can do if your rx is auto..mine used to be.

 

Well, to all you "Spend an extra 2k on a turbo II" people who are against tuning an NA for power, I'll present my upgrade path for my NA.

3" from na manifold to 3" highflow cat to 2 1/2" duals
safc II to tune stock injectors
larger injectors (720cc or so, detuned with SAFC)
upgraded fuelpump
stock turbocharger from ebay (mine was $150)
turbo manifolds, intake and exhaust from wrecked T2 ($80 at scrapyard)
apexi programmable boost controller (to allow tunable boost and prevent against detonation)

Just because you have an NA, doesn't mean you can't add the turbo in the future. You're all acting like you've never seen the dozens of people on this forum who make an NA turbo. Did you forget it's the same block? The biggest difference is the compression of the rotors, which with the stock wastegate at 6psi isn't going to cause too much of a problem, given that the s4 na rotors and s5 t2 rotors aren't THAT far apart compression wise anyway. In the event of knocking, reduce your boost with the boost controller.

This way you get to enjoy your NA, the upgrade path is the same except for maybe $300 worth of parts from a scrapped or upgraded TII. The concepts behind turbocharging aren't THAT difficult, and you can safely turbocharge ANY engine, to some extent, by limiting the output boost.

 

A TII only sells for a couple of hundred dollars more than an NA of the same year and condition.
http://www.kbb.com/
http://www.edmunds.com/

Sorry, but that sounds like an incredible waste of time and money unless the owner has a LOT of money in their NA (paint, body kit, suspension upgrades, etc.) and doesn't want to take a loss on the mods, or the owner simply likes to turn wrenches. Also, you are leaving out that the TII comes with an upgraded transmission, driveshaft, LSD, and halfshafts. If the NA is a base model, then the TII also has a better brake system and wheels.

It's not the same block. The TII has a 4-port block and the NA has a 6-port block.

A boost controller can't reduce boost below the setting of the wastegate.

 

thats no where near 6000 bucks , go look up the prices

 

advance the timing till you dont feel like you are picking up any more?
gutting cat = free

nitrous would be good... make sure you reinforce the floorpans... would be dangerous if they fall off at speed

 

i was reading the original sheet about my rx and it was 31,000 all it has is the moon roof and few other features i dont even know if mine is a gtu or so,i did try to fgure it out

 

Actually, I do like to turn wrenches, because by building a system like that up myself then if something goes wrong with it I know how it operates, you're not going to get that by buying a car with everything done for you. I stand corrected on the tranny, lsd, etc, I remember that now, but I thought that the 4 port vs 6 port was done in the intake manifold, not the engine block itself - is that wrong? Not refuting your knowledge, just trying to add to my own. And in the case of my car, it has 192,000 miles on it, so to replace the clutch, tranny, and driveshaft, the cost of upgrading to the TII setup is negligible, the LSD is something I would do even if I weren't going to turbo, and once you've got the clutch out, the flywheel is easy to replace, and I picked up the upgraded TII brake calipers, rotors, and hubs already. This gives me something to do, plus I won't be as likely to be at anyone's mercy for help when my tuned car runs funny, having done it all myself.
(not to mention that every single time I've had work done on any of my cars, they've come back with something screwed up)
The point I was trying to make though, is that buying an NA doesn't preclude you from going to a turbo later - and if you're a decent driver, you can get a lot of miles out of a good NA transmission even with a turbo in front of it. The only thing you really need to go turbo is a fuel controller, a turbo charger, and the manifold to plumb it in - you could fab your own intake, and use your stock suspension, brakes, etc, until you're ready to upgrade.

 

See the porting in the block (side housings):
http://www.rotaryengineillustrated.c...-shousing.html

Also, the rotor housings are a bit different:
http://www.mazdatrix.com/faq/6pexh.htm

But the difference is that you need to buy the used TII components and rebuild them, while a TII owner only needs to rebuild them because the original parts were free and pre-installed at the factory. Normally, you are looking at:
$250 Used TII transmission w/ TII starter
$50 Used TII flywheel
$150 Used TII rear sub-assembly
That's a total of $450 behind the owner of a TII! Add this to the $1,000 or so you spent on the turbo, SAFC, injectors, fuel pump, intake manifold, downpipe, etc., and the cost can really add up quickly. Since a TII is only about $500 more than an NA of the same year and condition, it really doesn't make much sense to convet an NA to a TII, as I have stated earlier.

Both the NA and TII owner will need to rebuild the transmission and LSD, and both will want to buy a new clutch, clutch slave cylinder, and driveshaft, so I agree that at least these components are a wash. However, at least a TII owner can maybe get some use out of the original parts while saving money for the rebuilding. The NA owner doesn't get jack.

The TII LSD is better than the NA LSD.

That's great, but what is wrong with buying a TII? A used TII isn't going to have any more problems than a used NA with junkyard TII parts. You can rebuild everything yourself, and it will be a lot easier to simply rebuild than to swap parts between an NA and TII. You can always add an S-AFC to the TII if you want to tune on your own.

True, but the point I am trying to make is that this isn't exactly a very bright idea. I did the same thing, so I'm certainly not trying to act like I am smarter than you. I think it's best to identify your mistakes and tell others about them so they can hopefully learn from them rather than making the same mistakes themselves.

 

Finally, Thanks Evil Aviator for laying down the NA/T2 smackdown of knowledge.

 

And that's MY point. I bought my 87 NA for $1400. If I could have bought a Turbo II for $1600 in the same condition like Evil Aviator said, then hell yeah. If I'm going to have to pay almost 3 times that for a turbo II then I can take my time and do it myself cheaper. Hell, if I had $3800 to spend on a 16 year old TII, then for the same money, I'd have bought the same $1400 NA that I have now, taken out the engine and send it in and trade it plus $1500 for a rebuilt turbo II engine setup, buy the TII clutch, flywheel, tranny, driveshaft setup that's listed on the rebuilder's site for $450, then the 5 bolt, 4 piston brake conversion I got for $250, and for $200 less, I'd be better off than buying your $3800 turbo II, because now I've got 0 miles on a rebuilt engine.

But like I said, if there were a Turbo II for $200/$300 more on the same lot at the same time, hell yeah I would have bought it. You're not talking about $300 though, you're talking about $2400 more for a car only 1 year newer. I'm sorry, I stand by my decision to turbo the NA, on top of that, there are a LOT of people getting into NA's of all years for $500-$1000.

But yeah, if you're not good with cars, afraid to do your own work, or would have to pay someone else to do it, then maybe spending the extra $2400 is your best bet. For someone like me, who does his own paint, recovers his own interiors, turns his own wrenches and tunes his own car, I save money and add the hobby value. It's all about what you look for in a car.

And I believe the $2400 price difference removes a lot of the conviction from Evil Aviator's "smackdown of knowledge". He still knows what he's talking about, there's no doubt, but with a $2400 price difference over what I got my car for, it just doesn't weigh as heavily.

And to illustrate the point of doing your own work, here's a couple of pictures of my car.

Exterior paint cost of materials - $120
Interior recovering cost of materials - $75

 

IMHO, i prefer the feel of an N/A motor over a turbo motor. Ill admit, i really miss the way my old 2.5 subaru motor felt. although i do like the way my FC is balanced over my old RS, id definitly kill to have a highly built and tuned NA motor over a gobs of power turbo motor. a turbo motor just cannot beat the response and ridgeditiy of an N/A motor. thats why ill confess another thing, i have a fetish for honda engines because of the fact that they satisfy what im saying. not everyone here that drives an NA will say that, but the ones that have put money into their NA's can back me up on this.

 

Hey kiddo, calm down, don't need to get excited... meant to quote the person other kiddo that said that N/A are a waste of money...

 

Hmph

 

Racing Beat Header: $187.00 + Shipping (http://www.rx7store.net)
Racing Beat Presilencer: $198.00 + Shipping (http://www.rx7store.net)
Corksport Catback: $289.00 + Shipping (http://www.corksport.com)
Bonez Intake: $119.95 + Shipping (http://www.rx7.com)
Hitman FI NOS KIT /w 10lb Bottle: $498.24 (http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com)
Jacobs Ignition: $179.00 + Shipping (http://www.rx7.com)

Doesn't seem too expensive ;o.

 

Watch The Fast And The Furious much?