MazdaRx7Racer4Life

Sooner or later I will upgrade to a stage IV BNR Turbo, right now I have exhaust, Banzai TID, and HKS SSQV. My question is, with the right tuning, what are the benefits of a haltech if I have not yet upgraded my injectors or pump.

ilike2eatricers

You get to ditch the AFM. I posted in your other thread as well. Full control over AF ratios and you can get rid of fuel cut and other things. I'm sure there are alot more but those are the main ones I could think of.

Kenteth

Question: does the haltech fuel cut on decel like the stock? Is this how people normaly set it up, or not worry about it?

NZConvertible

Stock injectors and pump makes no difference. You still get the benefit of being able to totally retune the fuel and ignition curves. The stock curves are very conservative, and allow a lot of scope for safe improvement. The ability to change (or turn off) the overboost the fuel cut also greatly increases potential, although with a stock fuel system you shouldn't be boosting over 9psi anyway. Removal of the AFM is a relatively minor bonus.

All EFI systems cut fuel on decel. It saves gas, and there's no reason not to do it.

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

I think you should treat the BNR Stage IV like a full aftermarket turbo as far as what fuel/ECU support it requires and the care in the set-up.

When I put on my Stage IV I had everything a large aftermarket turbo would have- Haltech, 720cc primary inj, 1600 2ndaries w/ parallel fuel system w/ aeromotive RRFPR and Walbro 255 LPHr fuel pump.

First time I boosted I hit over 20psi before 3,500rpm. Luckily the Pop off valve worked to limit boost and it was set very rich so no harm.

But, once I had boost creep almost fixed (60mm external wastegate) the turbo still flowed so much the Walbro couldn't support the required fuel even w/ the injectors maxed out on duty cycle (400RWHP single conv. 3rd gens use this pump- the inj. are good for over 600rwhp WTF).

I cracked the engine rear end plate and now have to build a better fuel system (walbro zero pressure to reservoir, big inline pump under pressure from reservoir to fuel). rails) to support the turbo.

So be careful, the Stage IV has a lot of potential. I would restrict your intake and exhaust initially no matter what your set-up and carefully remove restrictions as you test to see that you have no boost creep and plenty of fuel available (checking w/ wideband and calculating inj. duty cycle).

I found out this turbo is no joke...

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

Question: does the haltech fuel cut on decel like the stock? Is this how people normaly set it up, or not worry about it?

Haltech can be switched between fuel cut on decel or not. If one uses premix (and no cat) the fuel on decel is used- or if one setting up for anti-lag or just plain likes the throttle lift fireballs.

Removal of the AFM is a relatively minor bonus.

In overall peak HP gains on a small(ish) turbo I agree.

However, I think the removal of the AFM should make a good deal of improvement in turbo boost response. Any restriction before the turbo really hurts response. You will hear people speak of the results of decreasing restriction before the turbo in draw through carb Vs blow through carb discussions, or people on this forum discussing the gains in response from a simple TID mod, or most professional racers using nothing but a velocity stack on the turbo inlet (despite the advantages of sealed CAI system), and even in OEM trubo diesel applications where whole new compressor housing types (shrouded) are designed so a larger turbo inlet pipe can be used to boost response.

Some Japanese tuners simply move the AFM to after the turbo compressor outlet when using stock ECU and piggy backs...

Project84

The Haltech also can be switched between fuel cut or ignition cut when you hit max RPM (which you establish).

As said before, its total control.

scathcart

What RRFPR does aeromotive make for EFI setups? I wasn;t aware they offered anything adjustable outside of the standard 1:1 boost reference.


EDIT: Aeromotive doesn;t make any RRFPR's for EFI; I checked.
Are you aware that rising rate means that the rate in which fuel pressure increase with reference to boost actually rises (goes higher than 1:1)?

Edit: After a search, I see that you are using The Aeromotive 6-AN 13109 FPR, which has a non-adjustable boost-reference of 1:1. All FPR's have this reference. A RRFPR is adjustable for how much it references with respect to boost; some of the RRFPR's used with superchargers are adjustable up to 12:1 (giving rail pressures of over 150 lbs at 10 psi of boost).
You wouldn't want to tune via an FPR... pump flow is sevrely dampened at those rail pressures. RRFPR's are the poor man's EMS.

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

Ah, I got it. 1:1 rate is standard w/ any FPR that has boost reference and Rising Rate is for rising above 1:1.

Yep, I just have the dual port w/ boost fitting!

RETed

We do not recommend this.
This wastes gas, and it hurts gas mileage.
It can also cause elevated EGT's which are totally unnecessary.
This may hinder engine decel on throttle lift, which may or may not affect your shifting performance.


-Ted

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

Good points

But, if you premix it will help lubricate the seals when you lift the throttle

And if you set up for anti-lag you are probably not worried about EGTs, gas mileage or lifting off the throttle much to shift (flat shift feature timming retard to unload trans- or use antilag features richening and timming retard to unload trans).

The throttle lift fireballs are just fun for us posers...

Both fuel on decel and setting and the ignition cut rev limit setting should NOT be used w/ catylitics.

MazdaRx7Racer4Life

Is the haltech easy to tune with the laptop or is it better to take to a dyno for a pro to do it. I want to learn, but I don't wanna mess anything up, and I DO want total control, I don't want to leave anything to chance. Does the haltech datalog as well? And last question, about my setup actually, I am planning on running 720's all around, a bell engineering rrfpr, a comp tech 255 fuel pump, a custom fmic and ofcourse the stage iv. Do you think those modifications plus proper tuning of a Haltech will work?

$150FC

4x720 probably won't be enough fuel but otherwise it should work.

Ian, I hope I don't have to redo my fuel system after I get this beast running, heh.

Did you ever think you maybe just got a bunk walbro? (Although it could be possible you're running more than 400rwhp...)

Also, what would you guys suggest in terms of restricting the turbo inlet? I've just got a 3" K&N stuck on there now, which should be great for boosting but not for breaking-in my engine...

$150FC

4x720 probably won't be enough fuel but otherwise it should work.

Ian, I hope I don't have to redo my fuel system after I get this beast running, heh.

Did you ever think you maybe just got a bunk walbro? (Although it could be possible you're running more than 400rwhp...)

Also, what would you guys suggest in terms of restricting the turbo inlet? I've just got a 3" K&N stuck on there now, which should be great for boosting but not for breaking-in my engine...

scathcart

Did you even read what I wrote about RRFRPR's? If you're looking to lower your fuel pump flow, go ahead. RRFPR's are for when you DON'T have a tunable EMS.

MazdaRx7Racer4Life

What would be your suggestions as to fuel mods? What are you going with? Maybe 2x1600 secondaries, and 2x720 primaries?

MazdaRx7Racer4Life

sorry, didn't read that part too well, so no rrfpr when I have a standalone, got it.

scathcart

I set up a fuel system around horsepower goals... what are you looking to eventually make?

RETed

Check the Haltech section in this forum.

Yes it can.


-Ted

igottafc

iTrader: (6)

ok sorry for asking this but i just want to get this cleared up, what does data logging mean?

RETed

The Haltech E6K (and the E6X, I think) is able to monitor the engine parameters (RPM, boost/vacuum, fuel injection time, ignition timing, water temp, air temp, etc.) and record them for later viewing at a rate of 10 times a second or 10Hz.


-Ted

igottafc

iTrader: (6)

ooooh ok, thanks ted! -alex

MazdaRx7Racer4Life

my goals are around 400rwhp with the bnr stage IV and a streetported engine. Let me know what you suggest for this power range

NZConvertible

This is one of those "if you have to ask..." questions. Anyone with basic computer skills (i.e. you can post on a forum) can operate EMS software after a bit of familiarisation. But tuning an engine is a totally different skill, and is best left to professionals with the right equipment (dyno, wideband, knock detection) and most importantly, the knowledge and experience to do it without risking engine damage.

MazdaRx7Racer4Life

I believe haltech has knock counter doesn't it?