Texas_Ace

iTrader: (18)

Well been a while since I have been around here, actually almost exactly a year since i sold my old 87.

Worked on some other cars and had some fun, in particular i have got into the MR2 world and have an MR2 that i have been working on, it is actually just waiting on a few little things and it will be going to the dyno to hopfully put down 400+rwhp.

But i have felt this call for a roatary motor ever since selling my last RX7 and i finally caved after selling a 300zx and started looking.

After a little searching i found just what i was looking for, an S4 GXL that a guy was selling for a little overpriced $1000. Talked to him and it seems that he blew the stock motor 6 years ago or so. He then took it to a freind/mecanic to have a rebuilt motor swapped in.

Says he has a rebuilt motor from an RX7 that went TII with about 10k miles on it or so. It that got halfway into the car before the mecanic fled. So the car sat for the last 5 years with a half finished engine swap.

My plan when getting it was to do a Tii swap and use the motor that is in the car in my 91 S5 as a temp motor till i get the funds to do an "engine swap" (won't say what kind of swap since it would just get me barred from talking rotorys lol).

So talked him down a little on price and looked at the car, perfect frame, only 1 minor ding in the body, interior is near perfect. and it is a GXL So everything i wanted. Decided to go for it.

Well talked him down to $800 but by the time i got it towed back home i was up to about $1000 again, yes i spent too much on it but it was just what i was looking for. Still have to transfer the title which is another few hundred bucks ;-(. It was worth it though, really clean and i have yet to give it a good wash, just need a little paint on the roof.

So i got that a few months ago. But between then and now the funds for a TII swap have disappeared. So change of plans. I am now going to finish the swap that is in the car and get it running, then either turn it into a track car or most likly a DD since it is so nice, have to wait and see how it all turns out.

So thats the back story on the car, here are some pictures of it, and my other cars are in there too.

Texas_Ace

iTrader: (18)

So now that you know the back story here is where i need a little help. Those of you that remember my last RX7 know that when i build/rebuild a car i do it RIGHT the first time, something that is lacking in today's world IMO. So i will be doing everything about this re-assembly the right way. I have done it before so i am good with most of this, i do have 1 problem.

When i got the car i got a TON of random parts with it. He said the motor that is in the car now came out of an S5 but i don't really see any S5 parts in the stuff so not sure what it is and the motor in there now is an S4 near as i can tell, got the mechanical OMP. S4 secondary valves and sure, so what is in the car is S4 for sure.

What i am having a little trouble with is making sense of all of this:



All extra parts will be for sale after i get this car running BTW, along with all unneeded parts off the 91.

Basically it seems i have 2 of just about everything. also best i can make out, the motor that is in the car came from an Auto car that appears to be an S4. I have figured out most of this but 1 thing i can't figure out is the TB/Intake. There are 2 of them, both look to be S4 but they have a few differences. I am not sure which one i should use.

Here is intake 1:




Notice the closed secondary runners up front

Here is intake 2:




Notice the open front secondary ports but the closed ports further back in there. Also the TB linkages and such are slightly different. I have no idea what the difference is between these.

The car is a 5 speed car is that makes any difference, i think that the car the motor came out of being an auto car might be why they look different i just don't know which is which.

I am sure i will have questions about some of the other parts as well but for now that is the biggest thing i need help with.

Here are some pics of the engine bay to help figure out what i need:





It is good to be back in the rotary world!

beefhole

iTrader: (29)

Uh oh... 2 Dead FC's to work on... One of them will get neglected. Both look clean though, hopefully you get both running, that would be nice.

Texas_Ace

iTrader: (18)

LOL, yeah. Although the black one will be dead for some time, not real worried about it for now. It was just WAY to nice ot pass up, thing is MINT. Once i get the funds i will get it running with a "differnt" kind of motor and turn it into a nice sleeper/track car.

For now just worried about the blue one. Which i will get running if the motor is good like the PO says it is, just a matter of time and money. I do things right which is sadly not cheap.

2slow4stock

iTrader: (18)

I wonder why the po took the under belly tray off for... You don't need to remove it to do a swap...

Texas_Ace

iTrader: (18)

No clue, lot of things with the swap i don't know why they were done but so far nothing thats can't be fixed.

ifryrice

I wouldn't say $1000 is overpaying for that, I'd say that's probably a pretty good deal. To check if the keg is S5, usually you can check the rotor housings to see if they have stampings on them, IIRC s4's will say something about hiroshima. The throttle plates you're referring to are the secondary plates, which should be open usually and closed under vacuum. They're probably sticking/whatever (commonly they're removed which is the 'TB' mod)

Texas_Ace

iTrader: (18)

Yeah i know how they work, what i don;t know is why the 2 intakes have a differnt setup. they are not sticking, they just work differntly.

The linkages for the throttle cable are slightly differnt as wel, why they are differnt i don't have a clue. i just need to know which one i need to use on this engine. They ARE differnt, just not by much.

RTRx7

iTrader: (2)

You should get one running quickly and sell it to fund the other. It's just taking up space to have two dead N/As sitting around, right?

ifryrice

Late Edit: Fixed my AT TB error, went out and looked again at mine and compared to the FSM and someone removed the closing linkage.

Given the fix, they both look relatively stock. You can use either, though I'd eliminate the secondary throttle setup from the automatic or at least remove the linkage. Some cars I've seen had a front dashpot mounted, which is what I had originally thought part of the AT linkage was until I checked the FSM.

Texas_Ace

iTrader: (18)

That is actually a possiblity. Money is real tight right now and depending on how things go at work over the next few weeks it might have to be sold weather i like it or not.

The black one will either be getting a 20b or an LS2, depends on price and if i could find a cheap 20b with a garantee which is virtually impossible so LS2 seems more reasonable.

So there is no differnce? i assume 1 of them is for an auto tranny? which one? might as well use the one meant for a 5 speed since that is what i have.

Hoping to get out there and start putting it back together tomorrow
so if anyone knows what the differnce is i would love to know. the differce really the Auto tranny?

ifryrice

Intake 1 (the one with the closed plates) is the auto TB. The size of the secondary actuator and the linkage from the primary throttle plates to the secondary (that long spring/bolt above the TPS) are what give it away. The location the vacuum lines run to also is slighty different, you can see the differences in the FSM.

Texas_Ace

iTrader: (18)

Thanks, then i will use intake 2 on this car. The motor in the car also seems to be a JDM motor as there is no EGR port on it.

Texas_Ace

iTrader: (18)

Well out there working hard on it, so far got a lot of little things hooked back up and put back together. And starting to figure out what is what, they seemed to have just up and stopped mid bolt turn in some places.

Now starting to actually put it back together, starting to get the rats nest all put back in and the intake should be on by the end of the day if all goes well. Hardest part so far is finding the bolts/nuts i need in the box full of them.

Texas_Ace

iTrader: (18)

well decided to turn the motor over by hand and see if it had any compression, and I hear 3 puffs on each rotor and feel comression so it is looking good so far, just have to get the intake put on it.

brian_skotch

iTrader: (6)

they're brothers! haha both cars look clean !

Texas_Ace

iTrader: (18)

LOL, yeah they are both real clean and i have not even cleaned them yet, they both need a good car wash and clean out.

Ok, so i have the intake on and everything pretty much hooked up and ready to try starting it. I am just stuck on 2 things.

1: vacume hoses, all i can find is the one in the FSM, i used to have a nice colorized version but can't find it anymore for the NA S4.

2: Crank trigger distributer thingamajig, can't find the FSM area that tells you how to stab it and i forgot. Anyone know where that is?

ifryrice

4A pg 52 is what you want for the crank angle sensor installation. The vac hoses can be a nightmare if you're going for mostly stock, I had the color version saved somewhere... I'll see if i can find it.

Texas_Ace

iTrader: (18)

Thanks, i must have skiped over that section in the FSM, that should get me runnign now.

If you can find that vacume line diagram, that would be great, i am going for an OEM setup.

So, today i got the engine pretty much together. Just the vacume lines and CAS to finish up before it is mecanically ready to start.

Here is where it finished up today looking like:




So after getting all that done i went to the store to get some of the stuff i need to get it started and running, the RIGHT way.

You know i saw a thread the other day about some guy that wanted to reuse old RX8 spark plugs because he was too cheap to buy new ones. Then what SHOCKED me, was all the other people that came in saying they would do the same???!?!??

I spent over $200 today just getting some basics to get the car started, 2 oil changes, coolent/flush, belts, vacume line, hoses ect ect. All the basics to start it up safly and ensure that it runs good. And i am STILL not done buying, they were out of a lot of stuff i need, i will easily spend $400 - $500 just on stuff to get this car on the road if there are no problems. I change spark plugs with the oil.

The way people cheap out on stuff then complain about unrelible cars just makes no sense to me. I spend about $500 on any car i buy just on tune up stuff, yeah it is overkill but you know what? i have NEVER had a problem with my cars (including a few RX7's) that i did not cause.

Oh well, rant over. I feel good that i know my cars are done right and will be relible. Thats all that matters.

Texas_Ace

iTrader: (18)

Well today i got the car finised up, all ready to start, put the key in and turned it annnnnnnnnd, nothing.

Started would not kick on. So started playing with wiring and found an old security systen that might be causing some issues, found a home made security device hidden in there and a few other oddball wiring antics but then i pulled back the carpet to check the ECU, and lo and behold! there is no ECU!

So looks like i am now in need of a JDM S4 NA ECU. Will an USDM ecu work with a JDM Motor? How do you know if an ECU is JDM?

I think i am looking for either an N326 or N327 right? which one exactly?

Texas_Ace

iTrader: (18)

Ok, so update today.

Got the replacement N326 ECU in today, so went out and installed it, checked everything over, "primed" the motor by putting some oil in the rotors and turning it over by hand a few times to get everything lubed up after sitting for 5 years.

Then tried starting it, at first it was trying but it sounded like the timing was off, tested it and it was right on, then realized i mixed up the plug wires and had the leading on the trailed and vice versa.

So swapped them back and tried starting it, took it a second to catch due to it being semi flooded but it started right up!

Only let it run for a secon due to not havin the radiator in the car or any of that stuff. Just wanted to get it started before i finished up the details.

Gona put it all back together tomorrow and then see what it does. It sounds real nice, and strong i will say that!

Can't wait to take it for a test drive!

Texas_Ace

iTrader: (18)

Ok, so i just got my latest RX7 running. Went for a drive and it will not rev past 3800rpm with any kind of gas. It just hits a wall.



I know from an old car i had this is most likly an issue with the secondaires but i have now done everything i did to that car and this one still don't work.



Grounds on the engine and chassis are good, i get good contivity and i cleaned all the ones i could find.



Only thing i am woundering about is the ECU, does it need to be externally grounded? It is missing the brakect that mounts it to the floor so it is just laying there for now which i am sure is not a good ground. Gonna make a ground in a sec to see if that helps but if not what else could it be?



There is also a wire coming off the pressure sensor that goes to nothing, looks like the PO had it connected to somthing at one point but then taped it up. The car was made in 01/87 could it still need to have the sensor reground?



So any other ideas?

RTRx7

iTrader: (2)

You are right about it being an issue with the secondaries and the pressure sensor needs to be hooked up to vacuum.

How did the injectors look when you had them out?

Texas_Ace

iTrader: (18)

The injectors looked fine when i had them out. The pressure sensor is indeed hooked up.

I have been playing with it but still can't figure it out. I kinda got the secondaires to kick on but not well.

Tried regrounding everything, no good.