KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

That doesn't answer my question

Hondaeat-R

Alright, i did a little testing tonight, but it got dark before i could test Amps. So i did this test that was copied from a members post.

VOLTAGE TEST

Engine running, headlights on & heater fan on high.
Alternator B post to alternator frame = 13.5-14v (verifies alt. output) **my result 11.70v
Alternator B post to battery + = 0v verifies primary + wire. **my result 5-12v, never 0
Alternator frame to battery - = 0v verifies primary ground **my result 12-14v
Turn off the motor, but leave the lights on.
Battery + to battery - = 12.5v and holds steady. (verifies battery) **my result 11.78 (Brand new batt.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I also did this test-
"Grab a meter and read out the battery posts while idling. If shes over 13.5 or so, you're alternator is ok. Any aftermarket items on the car will be suspect of the power drain. Anything below 13.5 is not gonna charge the battery properly. The voltage regulator isn't doing it's job if your voltage fluctuates a full volt at idle speeds & above."

My result for this test was 11.52 volts. So is it safe to say the alternator isn't doing it's job, and may also have a bad diode thats causing the battery to drain ? ONly aftermarket electronics are a old tape deck and equalizer, they don't stay on after the key is out. Factory alarm is also working properly as far as i can tell. Also, tonight when i hooked up the BRAND NEW BATTERY, I started the car and it was @ around 14v on the interior gauge, then once it ran a minute and the more accesories & lights i turned on (fan, radio, dome, blinkers, wipers) the idle would drop a tiny bit and the interior volt gauge would drop a well. Right before i went to turn the car off, it was idling & was at like 12v or even a **** hair below 12v w/ the radio, heat, lights etc...on.

what do ya think ? Here's a pic of how i had the MM set-up for voltage, and a pic of the car :0)....ahha.

RotaMan99

Ha, where did I say I OWNED a 99 cent voltmeter? You were talking about a test light which can be a simple led or 12v parking lamp which can also be free. This is also not a good way of doing the test since you have no idea of how much current is flowing through.

My multimeters are more then $40 which is why im not going to risk burning the very fragile electronics inside from a stupid action as to putting them in series. NEVER NEVER NEVER! Volt meters go in parallel and Ammeters go in Series or the Ammeter portion of your multimeter goes in series.

You just answered your own question. Ih there is more then normal parastatic current draw on the battery, then obveously something is wrong. If I saw anything above normal and was having issues with my battery going dead, then yes I would start troubleshooting and depending on how bad the draw was, I would eliminate a few items from the check list.

Actually it does. It goes to show that something can be using 12v with very very very little amps, such as your car radio. Now turn on your parking lights or your blower to minimum and now look at the amperage rise. That example is telling you that you can have the maximum amount of voltage in the system which in this case with the engine off would be 12v and still have a safe amount of current being pulled. 50,000 volts is A LOT and will give you a good shock. I know my self from our horse fencing. It uses extremly low amps so it is not deadly. Putting 5-10amps through that same wire wil burn it up because there is A LOT MORE current being pulled through.

Ok, ok. Another example. Which do you think is pulling more juice, 5v @ 1a or 12v 20ma?

Your alternator is no good as far as we can see. I would still go get it tested at the auto store for a full test. You don't want to by another alternator and have something actually wrong in your harness.

I have that same multimeter and never new how to make it fully work. I have 3 multimeters I use, 2 of the same brand and one is a sunpro which also measures rpm. pretty neat. Can't help you out with that meter. Sorry.

Hondaeat-R

well, thanks, i'll pull the alternator and have it tested at a alternator specialty shop near me. hope this is the problem, that'd be too easy though, lol.

RotaMan99

Ya I never have luck with alternators. Either they stop charging, overheat, or the shaft bearing goes. I was smart by buying a brand new FD alt at the auto store because now I have a life time warrenty on it. That is the alternator with the bearing failure. Sounds like a supercharger under the hood. I had a few ask if I had a turbo. haha. Kinda funny. Still charges though.

Hondaeat-R

haha, no doubt. Theres a shop near me that specializes in starter & alternator rebuilds, they put higher quality parts in place of the OEM **** parts & warranty the rebuild. How hard is it to put a FD alernator on a FC ?

RotaMan99

Well when you buy an alternator from an autostore, your not really buying them with OEM parts. Your buying them with the manufactures parts. Either way the quality is hard to spot when everything is put together

FD alt is not hard to put on a FC at all. The main issue is finding a dual vbelt pulley thats fits the FD shaft. Everything else is a piece of cake. The pulley you get you have to make sure its not more then 19 3/16" in diameter. If I remember correctly, I posted this info once on another forum. Any bigger and you will be underdriving the alternator and there is absolutly no reason to run under drive pulleys on a FC that is not going to seeing constant track racing or pushing some series power.

I have used 2 different types and they have caused nothing but charging issues since they do slow the alternator down at idle. Alternators need to be spinning at a certain speed to produce some(not full) charge at idle. Full charge comes from when the engine shaft rpm is about 1000rpm.

My5ABaby

iTrader: (7)

Nice Radio Shack multimeter. I only know because I was there today (unfortunately) and saw it.

Anyways, for future reference, the FSM also has a good test sequence in it that involves a lot of amp measuring.

Hondaeat-R

i saw that in the FSM, i just didn't understand why it was saying things like 55A & stuff like that. 55 amps is way too high. i'm sure i'm missing something, that's why. it's a good MM if you can figure it out all the time haha. Rotoman, what do you reccomend for alternators ?

RotaMan99

Well, if you asking which brand is better. I wouldn't know. I have yet to find a good one . I always say, you get what you pay for, so if you spend the money, you should get a good alternator. It was kinda my fault for the fd alt bearing to go.

Hondaeat-R

****. i wonder why they suck so badly. like i said, maybe i can have the shop build it better than stock.

NZConvertible

I don't think this point was addressed properly. Don't confuse voltage and amperage. If you compare an electrical system to a fluid system, and think of voltage being like pressure and current being like flow, you'll be on the right track. You can have pressure present but have zero flow (i.e. closed valve), but you can't have flow from zero pressure. With the battery connected all of the engine bay fuses should have battery voltage on them even if nothing's switched on (i.e. zero current). In the cabin fuse box the top row of fuses (which are fed from the BTN fuse) will also have voltage present, but the rest won't until the ignition key is turned to ON.

You were on the right track pulling each fuse, but you need to measure the current though the terminals. Ignore the advice above suggesting you measure voltage, that's hogwash. Check the RETRACTOR, HEAD, EGI INJ, EGI COMP and BTN fuses in the engine bay first (don't worry about the MAIN fuse). Make sure everything is turned off, then pull each fuse out in turn and measure the current though the circuit by putting the DMM probes across the empty fuse slot.

If the BTN fuse shows more than ~40mA, check the interior fuses. With the ignition switch in the OFF position only the HAZARD, ANTENNA, ROOM, STOP and ILLUM fuses are able to get power (they're fed directly from the battery via the BTN fuse). Check them using the same procedure as above. When you check the ROOM fuse make sure the door is closed or door the switch unscrewed to avoid getting a false reading from the interior light.

If you find a circuit that has a current draw when it shouldn't you can start narrowing your search to particular systems. The HAZARD fuse protect the hazard lights, the ANTENNA fuse protects the antenna and power locks, the ROOM fuse protects the interior lights, clock, stereo, ECU memory and alarm system, the STOP fuse protects the brake lights and horn, and the ILLUM fuse protects the dash lights, tail and marker lights and part of the HVAC system.

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

Funny you say it was hogwash, but it worked for me...

I guess my way is somewhat odd, let see how long it will take him to found the issue, compared to my "hogwash" way

BTW - Unlike your advice, I would also have them test the main 100amps fuse, but what do I know, its not like I've done it before...

RotaMan99

You always want to measure current like NZ Convert said unless, unless a circuit is stuck open for some reason which would normally be a relay. If this was the case then you might be able to use a voltmeter to see where there is voltage where there shouldn't be. You still may not get the right reading though. Measuring current will always work everytime.

Hondaeat-R

i know what you guys are saying about measuring current not voltage. I ran out of daylight both times , so i didn't have time to put the MM in series w/ the battery post and cable to test draw, nor did i have time to test the fuse blades current. this last time i was more testing to see if the alternator was shot or not, and it seems like it is...right? I was hoping that bad diodes in the alternator were also the cause of the draw, but i didn't test that either. how should i test to see if the alt is the draw ?

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

Hmm, we are thiking outside of the box now, aren't we

I guess, I can recreate the problem, test it my way with two different multimeter; and take pics...

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

As I mentioned before, I wouldn't worry about finding HOW much amps are being drawn on top of the static ones. You already know there is a problem, right?

Hook up your multimeter, which ever way you decide, and start pulling fuses, while looking at the multimeter. Once you see your amps\volts drop sustantially, you know your issue is on that fuse.

Even if your alternator is bad, I still think your battery drain issues is somewhere else. Do the series test, look at your readings, then unplug the power cable from the alt post, and check your readings.

Hondaeat-R

So for everything you're saying here, i should put the MM is series of the negative battery post and cable with car off, all things off, doors closed. then start pulling fuses ?

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

1 - If you are going to follow the amps test, disconnect the positive side; and set the multimeter in series between the battery post and the cable terminal.

2 - Start pulling fuses, while monitoring the MM readings (start with the fuses at the engine bay, make sure you also test the main one 100amps that its hold by two 10mm bolts on each side).

My way,

1 - Disconnect the negative side, and set the multimeter in siries between the battery post and the cable terminal.

2 - Start pulling fuses, while monitoring the MM readings (start with the fuses at the engine bay, make sure you also test the main one 100amps that its hold by two 10mm bolts on each side).

Hondaeat-R

so is "your way" testing in volts, or amps as well ? thanks for the help , really

NZConvertible

You don't measure voltage in series with the circuit, and you don't measure voltage to find a current draw. These are basic electrical diagnosis rules.

Measuring current will show exactly where the current draw is. Measuring voltage will simply show if the circuit is live. These are two totally different things as I explained above.

Unlike you, I have studied the FC's electrical system enough to know what needs to be checked and what doesn't. The MAIN fuse feeds the fuse box via the ignition switch, which is obviously off while his battery is going flat overnight. How can a circuit that goes through an open switch drain the battery?

Done what exactly? What did you achieve?

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

You can do either one; there is no need to do both. My MM amps section wasn't working properly (its an old one), so I used volts; as I said before, AMPS is the way to do it, but it doesn't mean that it can be done by using voltage.

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

As stated before, WE already know there is a problem, what's the point of knowing exactly how much over the static draw is? Do you really think that its easier to measure EVERY single fuse for amp draw?

Isn't an open relay a live circuit? How many relays can you find on a 100% factory FC? add the common e fan, aftermarket fog lamps, aftermarket alarms, door actuators, sound system, etc..

See my point?


Ahhh, you are assuming that the electrical system on the FC is 100% STOCK?

I had the very same issue, battery would drain over a period of one week; battery was good, and so was the alternator.

My achievement was founding the open circuit; have not recharged my battery in almost 2 weeks!

HAILERS

Here:

NZConvertible

Jeez, this is so obvious...

You're checking for the circuit that has more current flow than it should. As already explained, there shouldn't be more the 40-50mA of current draw through the whole system when the ignition's off, so if you find a circuit with more than that, a system on that circuit will most likely be the cause of the battery discharging.

WTF are you talking about? What you just said is completely irrelevant to the discussion. What to relays have to do with this?

Again, how is that relevant? Any modifications should still be protected by fues in exactly the same way.