awd beat??
new so still learning like i said....dowel pins??
02-23-10, 10:13 PM
#29
crazyrx7
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Maybe I'm just getting old but spending a bunch of money just to beat your friend in a drag race seems like a big waste of effort. You've got a 2nd gen non turbo? Spend a little money on reliability stuff like an upgraded radiator, spark plugs, and an oil change, and start doing track events to become a better driver. You'll have more fun, and develop some actual skills worth bragging about.
Here's NASA Texas' page:
http://www.nasatxracing.com/events.php
$295 for a two-day HPDE weekend. Super cheap!
You have an S4? That means a mechanical OMP... you could keep it but get a rotary aviation kit that lets you run it off a small tank of two-stroke oil so you get the benefits of using two-stroke without the mess.
Here's NASA Texas' page:
http://www.nasatxracing.com/events.php
$295 for a two-day HPDE weekend. Super cheap!
You have an S4? That means a mechanical OMP... you could keep it but get a rotary aviation kit that lets you run it off a small tank of two-stroke oil so you get the benefits of using two-stroke without the mess.
02-23-10, 10:14 PM
#31
Now that's rich, a DSM guy talking smack to rotaries. Like the pot calling the kettle black, that is. A friend of mine's a big DSM fan - in 11 years we've been autocrossing together, he's borked motors just about every year - the infamous crank walk, broken timing belts, seized valves (oiling issues), a couple of broken gearboxes, several broken diffs. For my part, I've replaced my clutch (about 8 years ago now). And a set of brake pads. Just sayin'...
One point in your favour concerning your friend's DSM - they are hard to launch well. Even dumping the clutch at 6000 it can bog. But if he gets a good launch - you probably need to have more than $3k into your car to be a match, based on what you have posted for him. Unless your plan is to swap in a good junkyard 5.0 Mustang motor or something of the sort. I know that's blasphemy around here, but FC's with that swap have won the GRM $200x challenge a couple times in recent years (where the total dollar amount into the car, including the car, can't exceed the current year). And that's a drag and an autocross, so it's not just about speed. To do that, or otherwise build yourself up a serious contender 7 for the budget you're talking, you will need to have some pretty good fab skills and put in a lot of work yourself.
One point in your favour concerning your friend's DSM - they are hard to launch well. Even dumping the clutch at 6000 it can bog. But if he gets a good launch - you probably need to have more than $3k into your car to be a match, based on what you have posted for him. Unless your plan is to swap in a good junkyard 5.0 Mustang motor or something of the sort. I know that's blasphemy around here, but FC's with that swap have won the GRM $200x challenge a couple times in recent years (where the total dollar amount into the car, including the car, can't exceed the current year). And that's a drag and an autocross, so it's not just about speed. To do that, or otherwise build yourself up a serious contender 7 for the budget you're talking, you will need to have some pretty good fab skills and put in a lot of work yourself.
02-23-10, 10:15 PM
#32
crazyrx7
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he spent like 4k on his build including his car
02-23-10, 10:22 PM
#34
crazyrx7
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Now that's rich, a DSM guy talking smack to rotaries. Like the pot calling the kettle black, that is. A friend of mine's a big DSM fan - in 11 years we've been autocrossing together, he's borked motors just about every year - the infamous crank walk, broken timing belts, seized valves (oiling issues), a couple of broken gearboxes, several broken diffs. For my part, I've replaced my clutch (about 8 years ago now). And a set of brake pads. Just sayin'...
One point in your favour concerning your friend's DSM - they are hard to launch well. Even dumping the clutch at 6000 it can bog. But if he gets a good launch - you probably need to have more than $3k into your car to be a match, based on what you have posted for him. Unless your plan is to swap in a good junkyard 5.0 Mustang motor or something of the sort. I know that's blasphemy around here, but FC's with that swap have won the GRM $200x challenge a couple times in recent years (where the total dollar amount into the car, including the car, can't exceed the current year). And that's a drag and an autocross, so it's not just about speed. To do that, or otherwise build yourself up a serious contender 7 for the budget you're talking, you will need to have some pretty good fab skills and put in a lot of work yourself.
One point in your favour concerning your friend's DSM - they are hard to launch well. Even dumping the clutch at 6000 it can bog. But if he gets a good launch - you probably need to have more than $3k into your car to be a match, based on what you have posted for him. Unless your plan is to swap in a good junkyard 5.0 Mustang motor or something of the sort. I know that's blasphemy around here, but FC's with that swap have won the GRM $200x challenge a couple times in recent years (where the total dollar amount into the car, including the car, can't exceed the current year). And that's a drag and an autocross, so it's not just about speed. To do that, or otherwise build yourself up a serious contender 7 for the budget you're talking, you will need to have some pretty good fab skills and put in a lot of work yourself.
02-23-10, 10:31 PM
#37
crazyrx7
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here is some of his set up
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/hang...uild-pics.html
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/hang...uild-pics.html
02-23-10, 10:32 PM
#38
Heh, notice the frozen CO2 residue on the extinguisher nozzle. At least they tried.
Cheap turbo motor eh? My advice still stands. Build your car for not a lot of HP, and a lot of reliability (read: LOW BOOST) and take it to HPDE events and enjoy it while becoming a better driver.
Cheap turbo motor eh? My advice still stands. Build your car for not a lot of HP, and a lot of reliability (read: LOW BOOST) and take it to HPDE events and enjoy it while becoming a better driver.
02-24-10, 01:37 AM
#40
Flip this on him.. "yeah your car is faster, but my car handles better"..
Pissing matches are a waste of time because everyone thinks they got the best stuff.
Rotarys have a negative image to the average person, just makes you all the more hardcore for modding something soo difficult lol. just like z32 300zx, tons of people hate how complicated those are, but once you see a badass one all hooked up, your like "dam" lol.
I dont think they even have the eclipse in japan, so there is no homeland support/aftermarket besides the US trend of believing its an awesome car.
Pissing matches are a waste of time because everyone thinks they got the best stuff.
Rotarys have a negative image to the average person, just makes you all the more hardcore for modding something soo difficult lol. just like z32 300zx, tons of people hate how complicated those are, but once you see a badass one all hooked up, your like "dam" lol.
I dont think they even have the eclipse in japan, so there is no homeland support/aftermarket besides the US trend of believing its an awesome car.
02-24-10, 07:11 AM
#41
crazyrx7
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lol yea i came back at him with i like to be unique i accept the fact that i might have to run premix and shoot flames out th back but you drive the same car as our spanish teacher so how unique are you really...
02-24-10, 10:51 AM
#42
a master power T70 can push 500+, it's just not a BB turbo so a bit laggier but it also only costs $500 new, downside is they are not rebuildable so if you blow it up you toss it in the garbage can.
manifold and wastegate you need top end parts for, expect to pay around $750 for these.
you also need a custom downpipe fabricated for the turbo and wastegate, runs about $300 for the work and materials.
next you need to upgrade the fuel system. 1 walbro at $100, 2 720 primaries at $300 and 2 1300-1600 secondaries at $300 and a fuel pressure regulator at $150, the regulator is optional and you can get by under 350 wheel horsepower on the stock FPR.
the cheapest front mount intercooler is going to run you about $400-500 plus time and fabrication.
standalone ecu is the most expensive part, forget the Rtek until they can make it a little quicker and easier to manage, 10 billion key clicks will drive you insane. a haltech or microtech will run you about $1k-1.5k.
you will also need a wideband or a tuner, so tuning will cost you at minimum $200 either way.
then you need a midpipe and catback exhaust, $500.
misc stuff like air filter, coolant, engine oil, sealants, gaskets, etc you will probably be in the hole a few hundred bucks for as well.
so you can see even the cheapest setup to go over 350 wheel horsepower will cost you at least $5k unless you buy a kit used from someone and part it together(which you can easily get hosed on with crappy broken parts).
you only need about 330 to the wheels to compete against the DSM with 400 and some good launching techniques.
manifold and wastegate you need top end parts for, expect to pay around $750 for these.
you also need a custom downpipe fabricated for the turbo and wastegate, runs about $300 for the work and materials.
next you need to upgrade the fuel system. 1 walbro at $100, 2 720 primaries at $300 and 2 1300-1600 secondaries at $300 and a fuel pressure regulator at $150, the regulator is optional and you can get by under 350 wheel horsepower on the stock FPR.
the cheapest front mount intercooler is going to run you about $400-500 plus time and fabrication.
standalone ecu is the most expensive part, forget the Rtek until they can make it a little quicker and easier to manage, 10 billion key clicks will drive you insane. a haltech or microtech will run you about $1k-1.5k.
you will also need a wideband or a tuner, so tuning will cost you at minimum $200 either way.
then you need a midpipe and catback exhaust, $500.
misc stuff like air filter, coolant, engine oil, sealants, gaskets, etc you will probably be in the hole a few hundred bucks for as well.
so you can see even the cheapest setup to go over 350 wheel horsepower will cost you at least $5k unless you buy a kit used from someone and part it together(which you can easily get hosed on with crappy broken parts).
you only need about 330 to the wheels to compete against the DSM with 400 and some good launching techniques.
02-24-10, 11:12 AM
#43
Its a dsm who gives a **** what he thinks...
The fact that we have 'real' sports cars, and they have a weak product of mitsu and chrysler (who at the time sucked) should make you feel better even if his car is faster.
Those cars are built as cheaply as possible and are ****, I admit I use to be a dsm'er so I know first hand.
The fact that we have 'real' sports cars, and they have a weak product of mitsu and chrysler (who at the time sucked) should make you feel better even if his car is faster.
Those cars are built as cheaply as possible and are ****, I admit I use to be a dsm'er so I know first hand.
02-24-10, 11:19 AM
#44
crazyrx7
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a master power T70 can push 500+, it's just not a BB turbo so a bit laggier but it also only costs $500 new, downside is they are not rebuildable so if you blow it up you toss it in the garbage can.
manifold and wastegate you need top end parts for, expect to pay around $750 for these.
you also need a custom downpipe fabricated for the turbo and wastegate, runs about $300 for the work and materials.
next you need to upgrade the fuel system. 1 walbro at $100, 2 720 primaries at $300 and 2 1300-1600 secondaries at $300 and a fuel pressure regulator at $150, the regulator is optional and you can get by under 350 wheel horsepower on the stock FPR.
the cheapest front mount intercooler is going to run you about $400-500 plus time and fabrication.
standalone ecu is the most expensive part, forget the Rtek until they can make it a little quicker and easier to manage, 10 billion key clicks will drive you insane. a haltech or microtech will run you about $1k-1.5k.
you will also need a wideband or a tuner, so tuning will cost you at minimum $200 either way.
then you need a midpipe and catback exhaust, $500.
misc stuff like air filter, coolant, engine oil, sealants, gaskets, etc you will probably be in the hole a few hundred bucks for as well.
so you can see even the cheapest setup to go over 350 wheel horsepower will cost you at least $5k unless you buy a kit used from someone and part it together(which you can easily get hosed on with crappy broken parts).
you only need about 330 to the wheels to compete against the DSM with 400 and some good launching techniques.
manifold and wastegate you need top end parts for, expect to pay around $750 for these.
you also need a custom downpipe fabricated for the turbo and wastegate, runs about $300 for the work and materials.
next you need to upgrade the fuel system. 1 walbro at $100, 2 720 primaries at $300 and 2 1300-1600 secondaries at $300 and a fuel pressure regulator at $150, the regulator is optional and you can get by under 350 wheel horsepower on the stock FPR.
the cheapest front mount intercooler is going to run you about $400-500 plus time and fabrication.
standalone ecu is the most expensive part, forget the Rtek until they can make it a little quicker and easier to manage, 10 billion key clicks will drive you insane. a haltech or microtech will run you about $1k-1.5k.
you will also need a wideband or a tuner, so tuning will cost you at minimum $200 either way.
then you need a midpipe and catback exhaust, $500.
misc stuff like air filter, coolant, engine oil, sealants, gaskets, etc you will probably be in the hole a few hundred bucks for as well.
so you can see even the cheapest setup to go over 350 wheel horsepower will cost you at least $5k unless you buy a kit used from someone and part it together(which you can easily get hosed on with crappy broken parts).
you only need about 330 to the wheels to compete against the DSM with 400 and some good launching techniques.
so is that build reliable? how fast do the t70's usually give out?
02-24-10, 11:26 AM
#45
reliable enough to make over 400 horsepower at 14psi daily for several years. i'm not sure how long the master power turbos last but they are fairly popular still even with the drop in high end turbo costs. it's still one of the cheapest turbos that are reliable and produce decent power.
02-24-10, 11:32 AM
#46
crazyrx7
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is the t70 the one you buy off ebay??? if so does it have to be made specificlly for rx7? or is there an actual site that they have? because i searched it and alll my links take me to ebay
Last edited by rubenm199253; 02-24-10 at 11:42 AM.
02-24-10, 11:41 AM
#47
there is only one listed on ebay right now, they aren't up there very often. you can get them from miketurboinc out of florida for the same price listed with all options. preferably no less than a .96 hotside or it will begin to choke the exhaust.
they're simple T4 flange turbos, not specifically made for any car.
they're simple T4 flange turbos, not specifically made for any car.
02-24-10, 12:03 PM
#49
you can find old greddy/HKS manifolds in the for sale section since they are no longer manufactured new. you can find new "HKS" knock offs on ebay for about $450 that are cast iron(i do think they are way overpriced though..), i don't care if they are made in china, cast iron is still cast iron so long as the bolts all line up and they are decked flat, i have used them before on the same build i mentioned and it has not developed any leaks at all(he thought it was a true HKS manifold but also only paid $150 for it new). they are cast off the original HKS design and fit the same.
for wastegates tial is fairly popular but there are many high end ones that work fine like Turbo XS, greddy, etc.
if you don't want a cast iron manifold you can also have one custom made, avoid those cheap *** **** quality stainless manifolds on ebay, you will be lucky if you have to change them only once a year.
for wastegates tial is fairly popular but there are many high end ones that work fine like Turbo XS, greddy, etc.
if you don't want a cast iron manifold you can also have one custom made, avoid those cheap *** **** quality stainless manifolds on ebay, you will be lucky if you have to change them only once a year.