Apex Seals: OEM 2 piece VS. OEM 3 piece
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From: BossTown, MA
Apex Seals: OEM 2 piece VS. OEM 3 piece
I have decided the best for my application is to go with OEM Mazda Apex seals. But I would like to know the difference between in their 2 piece and 3 piece design. What are the negatives and plusses of each? I searched but couldnt really find an answer to this. Thanks for reading.
~Dave
~Dave
if I'm not mistaken the 3 piece design was an older one that they faised out in favor of the 2 piece. Unless you get like old seals that mazda still had laying around then you should be getting the 2 peice seals.
Passing life by
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,028
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From: Scotland, USA
You will be very hard pressed to find the 3 piece. The 3piece offer the best sealing known to date but they tend to wear the rotor grove more and fold. The 2 piece offer longer useability.
HAILERS
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 20,563
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From: FORT WORTH, TEXAS,USA
Go here: http://wombat.sevarg.net/RX7/RX-7_Training_Manuals/
And download the ENGINE section and see how they are supposed to work.
And download the ENGINE section and see how they are supposed to work.
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Originally Posted by iceblue
I like them :-P
Less rotating mass = less chatter & less chatter = greater sealing & greater sealing = More power.
Less rotating mass = less chatter & less chatter = greater sealing & greater sealing = More power.
I'm actually serious, and not trying to be a *****, I just want to here why this is being stated
Apparently not, but something that allows internal damage to engine components doesn't really seem like something I would like to use.
Ok that answers the sealing and might minimize the chatter, but I still don't see how it's going to be any lighter.
Ok that answers the sealing and might minimize the chatter, but I still don't see how it's going to be any lighter.
HAILERS
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 20,563
Likes: 27
From: FORT WORTH, TEXAS,USA
Originally Posted by J-Rat
I suppose, at the end of the day its all personal preference...
Passing life by
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,028
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From: Scotland, USA
Originally Posted by Nismo Convert86
How do they have less mass? How does something that moves around and spreads the groove lessen Chatter? How do they seal better?
I'm actually serious, and not trying to be a *****, I just want to here why this is being stated
I'm actually serious, and not trying to be a *****, I just want to here why this is being stated
There split so they have less combined mass alowing the seal to vibrate into the grove instead of chop on the housing. This is where the groove wear comes from.
Passing life by
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,028
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From: Scotland, USA
Originally Posted by HAILERS
****How do they seal better? ******
So? You didn't read the thread I attached above?
So? You didn't read the thread I attached above?
prove exsactly what I just said. Take a look.
thats the million dollar question...
Source:
http://www.rotaryeng.net/Increadable-rotary2.txt
High intake
manifold temperatures lead to detonation and detonation can fracture stock
three piece apex seals with consequent scouring of the rotor housing and
rotors. The engine will not fail catastrophically but will still run
somewhat down on power with leaking apex seals. Thicker and tougher apex
seals are available for turbo charging. Newer apex seals starting with the
RX8 engine are now only two piece and much tougher.
manifold temperatures lead to detonation and detonation can fracture stock
three piece apex seals with consequent scouring of the rotor housing and
rotors. The engine will not fail catastrophically but will still run
somewhat down on power with leaking apex seals. Thicker and tougher apex
seals are available for turbo charging. Newer apex seals starting with the
RX8 engine are now only two piece and much tougher.
http://www.rotaryeng.net/Increadable-rotary2.txt
Last edited by J-Rat; Nov 27, 2006 at 04:54 PM.
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 6,598
Likes: 10
From: Temple, Texas (Central)
I've actually got a hard copy of that manual. The sales guy that by dad bought his WRX from used to be the service manager at a Mazda dealership and copied me off the whole thing.
Also, to clarify the less weight thing, its not that the seal itself weighs less, but the piece that contacts the housings and provides the actual seal weighs less.
Also, to clarify the less weight thing, its not that the seal itself weighs less, but the piece that contacts the housings and provides the actual seal weighs less.
HAILERS
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 20,563
Likes: 27
From: FORT WORTH, TEXAS,USA
Originally Posted by NZ_87_TURBO
so our engines come out with 2 piece right? i dont know enough about this. feed my appetite for knowledge guys. make me fat
The three piece seals are shown in the FSM.
The two piece seals are shown on this site: http://www.mazdatrix.com/b3.htm
