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Seems the general consensus is they beat you to death if the road isn't perfectly smooth. Is this only with the cheaper Ebay ones or across the board? I'd like to stay at $1000 dollars or less so this throws putting a Ground Control setup using KYB AGX's out. I mainly want them for the camber plates with maybe the added benefit of not having to run a spacer on the front with a 17x8 +35 offset wheels. Anybody know anything about the ISC Coilovers Banzai Racing sells or BC Racing? Or other that would come in under budget but are good? Thanks.
the answer is yes, but its not easy to predict which ones will be. the shocks have a big impact in ride quality, although you can get around this by lowering the spring rate.
typical spring rate for the FC is 8/6kg, which is 450lbsin, and 350lbsin.
the ground control setup, AGX's with 350 Front springs, and 200-250 rears is a good street setup. ride is good and handling is also good. notice we've put softer springs in.
ground control with Koni/Bilstein rides better, with the 8/6 springs.
i have a set of Teins, and i bought them because you can send them to LA and have them rebuilt. they have had many flavors, and i have a set of HA's with 8/6 springs and its ok, but a little hardcore. there was another RA? that came with softer springs, 7/5, which would be better. you can pay to have them re-valved also seems like cost would be too high and you could do something else.
Greddy/Trust just released a new coilover set, but its 9/7 springs, so probably too stiff?
other than that i don't have first hand experience
Thanks. I have another question after looking at the above brands and the Tien's images. Are the Ground Controls the only ones that are camber/caster adjustable? The others look like they only do camber. Ground Control is currently over budget but are they worth the extra money to adjust caster as well? Or do the other adjust it a different way that the images don't show? Thanks.
i belly-ached over this decision for several months. i read whatever threads i could read (both FC and FD) and tried to glean what i could from the info out there. based on my budget and what i felt would strike the best balance of quality and support (for future maintenance and such), i narrowed my choices down to BC Racing and Fortune Auto. i eventually chose BC (somewhat arbitrarily) and i can confirm that you can choose your spring rates if you know what you specifically want. i can't tell you how they ride because, like Spider2k, mine are still in the box, sitting in my room. my car is not running yet, so i saw no reason to rush the install.
depending on how much of a mind you have this sort of thing, you might want to pick BlueTII's brain. i learned a lot from his posts on the subject when i was searching.
i belly-ached over this decision for several months. i read whatever threads i could read (both FC and FD) and tried to glean what i could from the info out there. based on my budget and what i felt would strike the best balance of quality and support (for future maintenance and such), i narrowed my choices down to BC Racing and Fortune Auto. i eventually chose BC (somewhat arbitrarily) and i can confirm that you can choose your spring rates if you know what you specifically want. i can't tell you how they ride because, like Spider2k, mine are still in the box, sitting in my room. my car is not running yet, so i saw no reason to rush the install.
depending on how much of a mind you have this sort of thing, you might want to pick BlueTII's brain. i learned a lot from his posts on the subject when i was searching.
Thanks, when I get some time I'll look though his posts. I think one of his posts is where I learned how to get a custom aluminum or carbon fiber driveshaft with the proper yoke ,flange and conversion U-joints built.
Edit: It was a thread by eagle8 on the driveshaft.
Thanks. I have another question after looking at the above brands and the Tien's images. Are the Ground Controls the only ones that are camber/caster adjustable? The others look like they only do camber. Ground Control is currently over budget but are they worth the extra money to adjust caster as well? Or do the other adjust it a different way that the images don't show? Thanks.
in a word no, the GC stuff is straight from the 90's, its not great.
for the JDM stuff Supernow has camber plates that can do all the angles, but that is just more $$
It's not what you wanted to hear, but if I was going to do a street setup, I would do some Tein springs with some AGX adjustable's and replace the top spring cushion on all four corners.
Then if I needed to adjust caster/caber, I would just buy parts from racing beat or mazdatrix to solve the issue.
The beauty of the AGX adjustables with Tein springs is that you can fine tune the dampening to ensure the springs don't make the car bounce. .. . . . Coil overs without adjustable struts only let's you adjust spring rates. .. You have less of a chance to get the ride you want in my opinion. .. .
I haven't seen a set of coilovers with rubber spring cushions on the top spring mount. The springs seem to always mount directly to an aluminum plate with no cushion.
But you are running 17x8's +35, I can see the advantage of not running a spacer and trying to find a way.
It's not what you wanted to hear, but if I was going to do a street setup, I would do some Tein springs with some AGX adjustable's and replace the top spring cushion on all four corners.
Then if I needed to adjust caster/caber, I would just buy parts from racing beat or mazdatrix to solve the issue.
The beauty of the AGX adjustables with Tein springs is that you can fine tune the dampening to ensure the springs don't make the car bounce. .. . . . Coil overs without adjustable struts only let's you adjust spring rates. .. You have less of a chance to get the ride you want in my opinion. .. .
I haven't seen a set of coilovers with rubber spring cushions on the top spring mount. The springs seem to always mount directly to an aluminum plate with no cushion.
But you are running 17x8's +35, I can see the advantage of not running a spacer and trying to find a way.
Not what I wanted to hear but if I could find a way to increase my budget I could do the Ground Control setup using AGX's. That said the two brands of coilovers I'm currently looking at are adjustable. BC Racing has 30 clicks and the ISC has 32 clicks of adjustability. Both adjust rebound and compression simultaneously as do the AGX's. I can't say the AGX's still aren't better as I just don't know at this point.
I had tein coilovers in one FC, I never played with the rates
shortly after I hit my head on the roof after going over a bump at some speed I sold the car and vowed never again lol
i should say there are Teins that are only height adjustable, but most of them have adjustable dampers too. mine (HA? HE?) are overdamped, so the dampers are full soft, and on a smooth road its nice, but we don't have smooth roads....
I had thought about this in the past. It all comes down to I am stuck on wanting the camber plates. As for the wheels I haven't got them on the car yet. Waiting till my current tires wear out. I will probably test fit them tis weekend. They may clear the passenger side. The drivers side is where I'm most concerned. Here's why I slid sideways into a curb back in the '90s.Everything looks fine but that strut mounting point must be a little off. Basically when the strut top is turned to where you should have 0.5 deg. negative camber I have 0 deg on that side. Caster is fine and where i should be IIRC. I got my -0.5 degree by ovaling the hole in the strut, but this moves the spring/ spring perch closer to the tire. I could account for this with the camber plates. I've always wonder if a body shop could put it on their frame machine and pull it back right.
i should say there are Teins that are only height adjustable, but most of them have adjustable dampers too. mine (HA? HE?) are overdamped, so the dampers are full soft, and on a smooth road its nice, but we don't have smooth roads....
Originally Posted by Rob XX 7
I had tein coilovers in one FC, I never played with the rates
shortly after I hit my head on the roof after going over a bump at some speed I sold the car and vowed never again lol
BC Racing offer custom valving, though I'm so new to this suspension selection game atm I don't know what valving I would need. The ISC's street/sport setup comes with different valving than the race/ track setup. Would these brands possibly not have the ride issues of the older Teins you are talking about. If I get them from Banzai the ISC's come with the 8kg/6kg setup.
Been doing a little reading. It seems Ground Control was/ is a solution for racing classes that don't allow threaded body shocks. Since the occasional track day )is probably all the car will ever see( if the road coarse 30-40 min from my house gets built) I'm not limited by this rule is there any advantage to the GC? Other than running AGX's or Koni's?
if that is the problem, its actually pretty easy. mine had a bent spindle, also easy once i figured it out
I may go talk to a guy I went to high school with. He has a body shop and frame machine. I'll probably still want the camber plates as I'd like to run 1 degree of neg. camber or at least see if I can without to much negative impact on tire wear. Tires have worn fine with -0.5 deg. Also if that racetrack gets built and I was to get to do some track days I might want the ability to run more neg. camber on those days.
Tein also made flex's for the FC which are now discontinued(everything is for these cars so nothing new here )..they were 6kg/5kg. frnt/rear. spring rates. and double adjustable (shock height and spring preload) with a twin tube shock design supposedly better riding with slightly longer travel then a mono tube shock on the street.
I get it. . .You have multiple concerns you are trying to solve.
The problem with the strut tower is where it lands after being pulled. . .. Not where it is currently.. . Does it wear that tire wrong?. . .I wouldn't think it would being just a little off at that point in the turn.
I have other issues myself. . . .. My favorite setup is 16x7+38 running 215/50r16" . . The issue is there is only 1 tire manufacturer left that makes that tire and it seems everybody is selling old stock at discount. Which means my choices are about to get non-existent.
I love this size because pot holes and inlets are handled well while still allowing for good grip.. .It's hard for my S4 to smoke them at standing stop because the clutch slips. To much grip. . . . .I might feel different with a GTUs and more HP.
I get it. . .You have multiple concerns you are trying to solve.
The problem with the strut tower is where it lands after being pulled. . .. Not where it is currently.. . Does it wear that tire wrong?. . .I wouldn't think it would being just a little off at that point in the turn.
I have other issues myself. . . .. My favorite setup is 16x7+38 running 215/50r16" . . The issue is there is only 1 tire manufacturer left that makes that tire and it seems everybody is selling old stock at discount. Which means my choices are about to get non-existent.
I love this size because pot holes and inlets are handled well while still allowing for good grip.. .It's hard for my S4 to smoke them at standing stop because the clutch slips. To much grip. . . . .I might feel different with a GTUs and more HP.
The tire seems to wear fine. Maybe marginally different than the other side but it's really negligible. I thought about trying that size years ago but was sure they would rub on stock wheels. I plan to run 225/45r17 once I get the wheels on the car. I am going to test fit them tomorrow and see where the spring perch falls. If it's below the lip of the rim I may see if I can increase my budget and just go with the ground control setup. I get the feeling that on the street I may be happier with it.
I run Fortune Auto 500 Coilovers on my FC, I do not daily the car but I do drive it to and from the track. Spring rate is 9k Front, 7k Rear. I don't mind the ride quality even with a bucket seat. I do have poly bushings all around with the exception of a few solid bushings. One thing I would recommend is buying a quality brand that can rebuild the coilovers if it becomes necessary (within the country is a bonus too). They don't last forever like stock suspension. The coilovers I have seen do not allow caster adjustment on the FC.
Edit to add: If go with stock BC Racing and this Track near me actually gets built and I do start doing track days and decide I need better dampers I would have this option RedShift Competition Replacement Damper (redshiftmotorsports.com) It would cost more money in the end but by that time I'd have more knowledge from the track days to know what my valving needs really are. Problem is BC's pricing goes up Monday so I have to make a decision and get them on order.
I run Fortune Auto 500 Coilovers on my FC, I do not daily the car but I do drive it to and from the track. Spring rate is 9k Front, 7k Rear. I don't mind the ride quality even with a bucket seat. I do have poly bushings all around with the exception of a few solid bushings. One thing I would recommend is buying a quality brand that can rebuild the coilovers if it becomes necessary (within the country is a bonus too). They don't last forever like stock suspension. The coilovers I have seen do not allow caster adjustment on the FC.
I also have a set of 500’s, but with 5/4kg springs.
Highly recommend Fortune Auto.
11-09-21, 07:46 AM
