FOR ALL YOU N/Aers - How to get power out of my N/A
07-07-07, 06:03 PM
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FOR ALL YOU N/Aers - How to get power out of my N/A
i go ta 1987 rx7 fc n/a... what all should i do to get the most horsepower?? and what kind of dual exhaust should i get?
07-07-07, 06:37 PM
#4
https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-gen-archive-72/how-make-beefy-n-need-your-recommendations-31410/
Read. All you ever wanted to know about making power without boost.
-=Russ=-
Read. All you ever wanted to know about making power without boost.
-=Russ=-
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07-07-07, 08:27 PM
#8
The intake manifold and TB on my current fc are ported and the car really moves quite well. An open exhaust and CAI plus an AFC or MS would make the car quite an example of an NA. Just gotta upgrade the clutch since it slips on any kind of aggressive launch.
07-07-07, 08:54 PM
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I love that people want to "beef-up" their N/A's. I originally wanted to do it too, but a lot of people on the forum said to go with the 13BT swap. I went with the swap and now see tons of people asking how to get power out of their N/A's without a lot of people telling them to go 13BT (TII). The 13BT swap is a good way to make power... but if you want to build a sweet N/A then you've got my support. Hopefully someone builds a strong 200HP N/A one day.
07-07-07, 09:02 PM
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there are very few people on this forum who can tell you how to do it well and properly. first off, the RB true dual is NOT the best exhaust you can get for an n/a, it is a good system and gives great power, but its no where near the best.
exhaust is first though, i recommend and SDJ header (15hp dyno proven more than RB headers) with a 2.5" test pipe or pre silencer (like a borla XR-1 muffler or corksport pre silencer) and a well designed single catback like the Apex N1, Apex GT spec, Greddy Power extreme single, Corksport (very very loud).
intake does almost nothing for n/a's, you can rig up your own cold air setup with some ok results.
get your 5/6 port system working and use some pineapple inserts in them, mod and port (or have done) your TB.
a light flywheel and underdrive pulley are nice to have as well. get a wideband o2 setup and an S-AFC2 to tune fuel (or a stand alone setup if thats the way you're going) if you go stand alone it would be a good idea to go with an IDA/ITB intake setup with 50 or 52mm TB's.
ideally the most power that can be had is with a stand alone, the IDA/ITB intake setup, the well done exhaust, tuned properly, and some small things here and there.
pm or AIM me if you want more info, i dont know everything, but being a die hard n/a guy since my first FC about 8 years ago i can tell you quite a bit.
edit: plus the RB exhaust systems are HEAVY, almost as heavy as stock exhausts. my full exhaust setup weighs 34lbs from engine to the end. the RB header alone almost weighs that much.
exhaust is first though, i recommend and SDJ header (15hp dyno proven more than RB headers) with a 2.5" test pipe or pre silencer (like a borla XR-1 muffler or corksport pre silencer) and a well designed single catback like the Apex N1, Apex GT spec, Greddy Power extreme single, Corksport (very very loud).
intake does almost nothing for n/a's, you can rig up your own cold air setup with some ok results.
get your 5/6 port system working and use some pineapple inserts in them, mod and port (or have done) your TB.
a light flywheel and underdrive pulley are nice to have as well. get a wideband o2 setup and an S-AFC2 to tune fuel (or a stand alone setup if thats the way you're going) if you go stand alone it would be a good idea to go with an IDA/ITB intake setup with 50 or 52mm TB's.
ideally the most power that can be had is with a stand alone, the IDA/ITB intake setup, the well done exhaust, tuned properly, and some small things here and there.
pm or AIM me if you want more info, i dont know everything, but being a die hard n/a guy since my first FC about 8 years ago i can tell you quite a bit.
edit: plus the RB exhaust systems are HEAVY, almost as heavy as stock exhausts. my full exhaust setup weighs 34lbs from engine to the end. the RB header alone almost weighs that much.
07-07-07, 09:59 PM
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I was actually also going to go with the RB true dual setup, but can you give some more info on the SDJ headers? I've never heard of them. Do they add 15 hp total, or 15 more than the RB?
07-07-07, 10:10 PM
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PM banzaitoyota, he's the one that sells the SDJ's, and yes its 15 MORE than RB headers. and they weigh 9lbs.
and like i said, i've used the true dual before, its a good system that makes good power, but more power can be had and a huge weight drop on top of it by using light weight components
and like i said, i've used the true dual before, its a good system that makes good power, but more power can be had and a huge weight drop on top of it by using light weight components
07-07-07, 10:24 PM
#14
+1
Best and cheapest way to get the most power.
The VERY first thing you should do to get power from a rotary engine is a REBUILD!!!!. As weird as that sounds, if your engine is losing compression, power goies out the window. Rebuilding your engine will later on be more benificial when you add on other mods.
You can do a S5UIM to a S4LIM since you have a S4 FC. From what I read from various places you can gain some HP.
http://howto.globalvicinity.com/gv_w...=119&co=1&vi=1
The other ways are porting the engine and reducing weight from the car.
Best and cheapest way to get the most power.
The VERY first thing you should do to get power from a rotary engine is a REBUILD!!!!. As weird as that sounds, if your engine is losing compression, power goies out the window. Rebuilding your engine will later on be more benificial when you add on other mods.
You can do a S5UIM to a S4LIM since you have a S4 FC. From what I read from various places you can gain some HP.
http://howto.globalvicinity.com/gv_w...=119&co=1&vi=1
The other ways are porting the engine and reducing weight from the car.
07-07-07, 10:28 PM
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PM banzaitoyota, he's the one that sells the SDJ's, and yes its 15 MORE than RB headers. and they weigh 9lbs.
and like i said, i've used the true dual before, its a good system that makes good power, but more power can be had and a huge weight drop on top of it by using light weight components
and like i said, i've used the true dual before, its a good system that makes good power, but more power can be had and a huge weight drop on top of it by using light weight components
Wow. Is there a website where I can find some pictures and prices? Would you recommend the RB Presilencer and/or catback? (just trying to hear some different opinions)
07-07-07, 10:31 PM
#16
there are very few people on this forum who can tell you how to do it well and properly. first off, the RB true dual is NOT the best exhaust you can get for an n/a, it is a good system and gives great power, but its no where near the best.
exhaust is first though, i recommend and SDJ header (15hp dyno proven more than RB headers) with a 2.5" test pipe or pre silencer (like a borla XR-1 muffler or corksport pre silencer) and a well designed single catback like the Apex N1, Apex GT spec, Greddy Power extreme single, Corksport (very very loud).
intake does almost nothing for n/a's, you can rig up your own cold air setup with some ok results.
get your 5/6 port system working and use some pineapple inserts in them, mod and port (or have done) your TB.
a light flywheel and underdrive pulley are nice to have as well. get a wideband o2 setup and an S-AFC2 to tune fuel (or a stand alone setup if thats the way you're going) if you go stand alone it would be a good idea to go with an IDA/ITB intake setup with 50 or 52mm TB's.
ideally the most power that can be had is with a stand alone, the IDA/ITB intake setup, the well done exhaust, tuned properly, and some small things here and there.
pm or AIM me if you want more info, i dont know everything, but being a die hard n/a guy since my first FC about 8 years ago i can tell you quite a bit.
edit: plus the RB exhaust systems are HEAVY, almost as heavy as stock exhausts. my full exhaust setup weighs 34lbs from engine to the end. the RB header alone almost weighs that much.
exhaust is first though, i recommend and SDJ header (15hp dyno proven more than RB headers) with a 2.5" test pipe or pre silencer (like a borla XR-1 muffler or corksport pre silencer) and a well designed single catback like the Apex N1, Apex GT spec, Greddy Power extreme single, Corksport (very very loud).
intake does almost nothing for n/a's, you can rig up your own cold air setup with some ok results.
get your 5/6 port system working and use some pineapple inserts in them, mod and port (or have done) your TB.
a light flywheel and underdrive pulley are nice to have as well. get a wideband o2 setup and an S-AFC2 to tune fuel (or a stand alone setup if thats the way you're going) if you go stand alone it would be a good idea to go with an IDA/ITB intake setup with 50 or 52mm TB's.
ideally the most power that can be had is with a stand alone, the IDA/ITB intake setup, the well done exhaust, tuned properly, and some small things here and there.
pm or AIM me if you want more info, i dont know everything, but being a die hard n/a guy since my first FC about 8 years ago i can tell you quite a bit.
edit: plus the RB exhaust systems are HEAVY, almost as heavy as stock exhausts. my full exhaust setup weighs 34lbs from engine to the end. the RB header alone almost weighs that much.
EVERYTHING he said!
Should add a RB\jay tech manifold with a holley style TB as another option to the ITBs
07-07-07, 10:35 PM
#17
there are very few people on this forum who can tell you how to do it well and properly. first off, the RB true dual is NOT the best exhaust you can get for an n/a, it is a good system and gives great power, but its no where near the best.
exhaust is first though, i recommend and SDJ header (15hp dyno proven more than RB headers) with a 2.5" test pipe or pre silencer (like a borla XR-1 muffler or corksport pre silencer) and a well designed single catback like the Apex N1, Apex GT spec, Greddy Power extreme single, Corksport (very very loud).
intake does almost nothing for n/a's, you can rig up your own cold air setup with some ok results.
get your 5/6 port system working and use some pineapple inserts in them, mod and port (or have done) your TB.
a light flywheel and underdrive pulley are nice to have as well. get a wideband o2 setup and an S-AFC2 to tune fuel (or a stand alone setup if thats the way you're going) if you go stand alone it would be a good idea to go with an IDA/ITB intake setup with 50 or 52mm TB's.
ideally the most power that can be had is with a stand alone, the IDA/ITB intake setup, the well done exhaust, tuned properly, and some small things here and there.
pm or AIM me if you want more info, i dont know everything, but being a die hard n/a guy since my first FC about 8 years ago i can tell you quite a bit.
edit: plus the RB exhaust systems are HEAVY, almost as heavy as stock exhausts. my full exhaust setup weighs 34lbs from engine to the end. the RB header alone almost weighs that much.
exhaust is first though, i recommend and SDJ header (15hp dyno proven more than RB headers) with a 2.5" test pipe or pre silencer (like a borla XR-1 muffler or corksport pre silencer) and a well designed single catback like the Apex N1, Apex GT spec, Greddy Power extreme single, Corksport (very very loud).
intake does almost nothing for n/a's, you can rig up your own cold air setup with some ok results.
get your 5/6 port system working and use some pineapple inserts in them, mod and port (or have done) your TB.
a light flywheel and underdrive pulley are nice to have as well. get a wideband o2 setup and an S-AFC2 to tune fuel (or a stand alone setup if thats the way you're going) if you go stand alone it would be a good idea to go with an IDA/ITB intake setup with 50 or 52mm TB's.
ideally the most power that can be had is with a stand alone, the IDA/ITB intake setup, the well done exhaust, tuned properly, and some small things here and there.
pm or AIM me if you want more info, i dont know everything, but being a die hard n/a guy since my first FC about 8 years ago i can tell you quite a bit.
edit: plus the RB exhaust systems are HEAVY, almost as heavy as stock exhausts. my full exhaust setup weighs 34lbs from engine to the end. the RB header alone almost weighs that much.
I've seen at least one vendor dyno sheet showing "random small upgrade gives XX HP" where the power after upgrade was obviously a lazy photoshop of the power before upgrade.
07-07-07, 10:36 PM
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if you are concerned about sound i would recommend using a 2.5" Borla XR-1 muffler as a pre silencer instead of the RB, the RB pre silencer is ridiculously heavy along with it will only bolt to an RB catback and no other without modification. RB catback i'd say wouldn't be the best for power, look into an Apex'i N1 single or Apex'i GT Spec.
getting to the dyno next weekend hopefully, by the end of the month for sure.
my car is meant for max power possible on stock ports without a stand alone for now, i've yet to encounter any situation where i felt i needed more than 200-220hp at the flywheel on a track. i haven't taken this car to the track yet, but i had a vert that i was taking to the track regularly, it made 205-210hp to the flywheel and i never felt like i needed more power, just more grip, and i had run with cars from 150-500hp on the track/tracks, and crotch rockets on the local mountain.
its also a matter on whether you want the car for fun driving and some races, or intend on racing it a lot and want to be competitive.
the best weapon an n/a has is the lighter weight. every setup and car has its strengths and weaknesses. dont feel like explaining it all.
oh and for the dyno question, right now i have a corksport header, corksport pre silencer and cork sport catback, i'm going to dyno now and dyno again when i get an SDJ header.
look up my post about the weight of my car and it has my full list of mods right now.
getting to the dyno next weekend hopefully, by the end of the month for sure.
my car is meant for max power possible on stock ports without a stand alone for now, i've yet to encounter any situation where i felt i needed more than 200-220hp at the flywheel on a track. i haven't taken this car to the track yet, but i had a vert that i was taking to the track regularly, it made 205-210hp to the flywheel and i never felt like i needed more power, just more grip, and i had run with cars from 150-500hp on the track/tracks, and crotch rockets on the local mountain.
its also a matter on whether you want the car for fun driving and some races, or intend on racing it a lot and want to be competitive.
the best weapon an n/a has is the lighter weight. every setup and car has its strengths and weaknesses. dont feel like explaining it all.
oh and for the dyno question, right now i have a corksport header, corksport pre silencer and cork sport catback, i'm going to dyno now and dyno again when i get an SDJ header.
look up my post about the weight of my car and it has my full list of mods right now.
Last edited by Agent_D; 07-07-07 at 10:45 PM.
07-07-07, 10:42 PM
#19
People who get the R.B. exhaust like it because it lasts a long time and produces a mild tone. Others don't like it because of the cost and weight.
Since you have an '87 N/A, your 5th and 6th ports are exhaust backpressure activated. Do a search to find other ways to activate them. Otherwise you'll lose about 25 HP. That's about what you'd get from an exhaust, so in the end you'd be left with nothing unless you activate your 5th and 6th ports some other way. Do a search to learn how.
Last edited by ericgrau; 07-07-07 at 11:09 PM.
07-07-07, 11:08 PM
#20
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For us NA guys, every little mod adds up. I'm actually thinking of getting a carbon fiber driveshaft just to see if there is any more power to be gained... some will argue the concept, but I know people who have seen results with other cars. Not to mention is comes stock on the RX-8 and 350Z.
I would love to see the dyno numbers on this, assuming these figures reflect the additon of only the header, as I find this pretty hard to believe.
I believe Corksport dyno tested their header and the dyno showed a power gain of 10 horsepower. The RB header is almost identically constructed so I would imagine horsepower gain would be comparable.
15 additional horsepower over these figures, I have to see it to believe it.
Borla XR-1 muffler as a pre silencer... YES!!! Dramatically reduces the noise!
PM banzaitoyota, he's the one that sells the SDJ's, and yes its 15 MORE than RB headers. and they weigh 9lbs.
and like i said, i've used the true dual before, its a good system that makes good power, but more power can be had and a huge weight drop on top of it by using light weight components
and like i said, i've used the true dual before, its a good system that makes good power, but more power can be had and a huge weight drop on top of it by using light weight components
I believe Corksport dyno tested their header and the dyno showed a power gain of 10 horsepower. The RB header is almost identically constructed so I would imagine horsepower gain would be comparable.
15 additional horsepower over these figures, I have to see it to believe it.
if you are concerned about sound i would recommend using a 2.5" Borla XR-1 muffler as a pre silencer instead of the RB, the RB pre silencer is ridiculously heavy along with it will only bolt to an RB catback and no other without modification. RB catback i'd say wouldn't be the best for power, look into an Apex'i N1 single or Apex'i GT Spec.?
07-07-07, 11:11 PM
#21
I think the Corksport header dyno is that poorly photoshopped dyno I mentioned earlier. The static in the upgraded line and the un-upgraded line matches up in most areas. In other places it's flipped, etc. Plus the gains are uniform across the entire powerband, as if somebody just took the un-upgraded line and stretched it upward. In reality the gains should be much higher where the exhaust flow is highest, i.e. at the higher rpms.
Considering that a full RB exhaust gives about 25HP, I'd be skeptical of the header being such a large portion. Especially when the cat is the #1 recommended thing to upgrade, and the RB mufflers give 7-8HP.
Oh yeah, about the TII swap. Yeah, for a big boost in power it is easily the way to go. But if you don't want that much more power, then the N/A will be the cheaper way to go. I mean, after the exhaust and cold air intake you're almost at the end of the bolt-ons.
Considering that a full RB exhaust gives about 25HP, I'd be skeptical of the header being such a large portion. Especially when the cat is the #1 recommended thing to upgrade, and the RB mufflers give 7-8HP.
Oh yeah, about the TII swap. Yeah, for a big boost in power it is easily the way to go. But if you don't want that much more power, then the N/A will be the cheaper way to go. I mean, after the exhaust and cold air intake you're almost at the end of the bolt-ons.
Last edited by ericgrau; 07-07-07 at 11:26 PM.
07-07-07, 11:17 PM
#22
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07-07-07, 11:52 PM
#23
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25hp for the RB full?? lol, the full RB true dual system is worth 28% according to mazdatrix, i dont care who argues, i've had it and used it and i can say that is a true or close to true number. the vert i had had that exhaust, a modded tb, wired vdi, removed 5/6 port system, under drive pulley and a cone filter and it would pull hard enough to almost keep up with my buddies stock S2K from a roll, which makes 240hp flywheel stock.
a full n/a exhaust is worth more like 45-70hp depending on the way its tuned. if you use the 28% number that mazdatrix claims for the true dual (or at least used to claim, havent checked the site in a long time) thats 204.8 flywheel hp if its used on an S5, and 186.88hp flywheel on S4's, 44.8 and 40.88hp increase respectively. now being the RB true dual isnt ideal for max power, this number can have 15hp added to it just from the SDJ header, and then another 7-15 from better components for the rest of the exhaust, so you can expect anywhere from 40-70hp on an n/a exhaust depending on how well its setup. the 15hp over RB is at the flywheel (which is like 11-13 at the wheels).
as for the corksport header, i have one and i'd have to agree that the dyno sheet it has may be altered because the header looks poorly designed and only has a 2"-2 1/8" flange/exit.
CF driveshaft will improve the power thats put to the ground and reduce the overall rotational mass of the driveline, its not that it adds power, just gets it to the ground more efficiently most likely due to the lighter weight. that is just a guess, im not positive.
im not going to argue with anyone over the exhaust figures, as i know that there are some that are going to fully disagree that much power can be gained from an n/a exhaust. the two biggest power reductions on the RX-7 are the exhaust and air flow meter.
there are lots of things that play in exhaust tuning, such as sound wave tuning, pressure wave tuning, etc etc etc, all which is trying to acheive the best scavenging effect.
a full n/a exhaust is worth more like 45-70hp depending on the way its tuned. if you use the 28% number that mazdatrix claims for the true dual (or at least used to claim, havent checked the site in a long time) thats 204.8 flywheel hp if its used on an S5, and 186.88hp flywheel on S4's, 44.8 and 40.88hp increase respectively. now being the RB true dual isnt ideal for max power, this number can have 15hp added to it just from the SDJ header, and then another 7-15 from better components for the rest of the exhaust, so you can expect anywhere from 40-70hp on an n/a exhaust depending on how well its setup. the 15hp over RB is at the flywheel (which is like 11-13 at the wheels).
as for the corksport header, i have one and i'd have to agree that the dyno sheet it has may be altered because the header looks poorly designed and only has a 2"-2 1/8" flange/exit.
CF driveshaft will improve the power thats put to the ground and reduce the overall rotational mass of the driveline, its not that it adds power, just gets it to the ground more efficiently most likely due to the lighter weight. that is just a guess, im not positive.
im not going to argue with anyone over the exhaust figures, as i know that there are some that are going to fully disagree that much power can be gained from an n/a exhaust. the two biggest power reductions on the RX-7 are the exhaust and air flow meter.
there are lots of things that play in exhaust tuning, such as sound wave tuning, pressure wave tuning, etc etc etc, all which is trying to acheive the best scavenging effect.
07-08-07, 06:56 PM
#24
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Agent_D: Banzai hasn't PM'ed me back yet, so I was wondering if you had a website for the SDJ header or somewhere I could research it. Also, since it only weighs 9 lbs. compared to the RB's ~30 lbs, how long will it last compared to the RB header under normal conditions?
07-08-07, 07:21 PM
#25
i dont know whats funnier
asking a question that has been asked many times before
or trying to make a na rx7 fast...
usually, the first place to start would be headers, test pipe, and muffler... then air induction... and then ecu tuning... and after that, there isnt much you could do without taking apart the motor...
asking a question that has been asked many times before
or trying to make a na rx7 fast...
usually, the first place to start would be headers, test pipe, and muffler... then air induction... and then ecu tuning... and after that, there isnt much you could do without taking apart the motor...