I did a search on this, but didn't really find any results that really helped me.

Finally had the chance to put my TII on the dyno this weekend, just to get a baseline and to figure out if I had a fuel issue.

Turns out I do, but not the one I was afraid of. I was afraid that I might be running lean due to a weak fuel pump, but that doesn't seem to be an issue here.

I'm running dead, off-the-chart rich starting at 5500 rpm and badly enough that I'm breaking up.

I have the following mods on my car:
-Gutted Pre-Cat, but the rest of the emissions stuff is in place.
-HKS FCD set properly.
-New NGK plug wires, stock size.
-Spark Plugs are about 8K miles old.
-Ground Rienforced at ECU.
-Tomei BOV
-HKS Filter on Stock Intake.
-Ground wire kit
-FD3S Alternator

As far as I know the rest of the car is stock.

I'll be grabbing a S-AFC over the next couple of weeks and then back to the dyno to tune it. I'm also hoping to get a 3" turbo back exhaust going in that time period, but I'm waiting on some of my S13 parts to sell for both.

I'm just wondering if there are any known issues with the S4 TII's that might be causing this (like a bad ground somewhere) so I can resolve this before putting in the SAFC and exhaust.

I'm broke as hell, but I will also be getting a new set of plugs this weekend in case that is the source.

 

"As far as I know the rest of the car is stock."

You have no fuel upgrades? i wonder why it would be running crazy rich? seems to me like the slightest mods you make on a t2 causes it to boost creep, and thus running lean. Maybe the owner before you put an after market fuel pump and rewired it?

ps, post your dino sheet =)

 

Take a reeeeaalll close look at your injectors and make sure that the secondaries are the same as the primaries...

what you are describing seems to me like someone put a pair of 720's in the secondaries without adding any fuel control on a stock turbo. Stock 88 TII's will have 550 primary and secondary injectors, all having dark red tops and connector jacks. If the secondaries are not red, chances are that they are not stock.

 

I was afraid that I was running lean up there, which is why I decided to run it on the dyno just to know where I needed to go.

As far as I know, there were no fuel mods done to the car. I was trying to determine the health of the fuel pump... seems plenty healthy to me.

If I can get hold of someone with a scanner, I'll scan in the dyno sheet and post it.

 

I am having this same problem. I was talking to a couple of the guys at a meet we had a little while back and they told me to pick up Mazda OEM spark plug wires. They have dyno proof to show that other wires tend to break up over 5k.

I picked up a set and a set of plugs from mazda. My problem is better, but definately still there. It will be interesting to see you're dyno sheet, I can post mine as well to see if we have the same trouble going on.

Do you have an EGT gauge? At about (80mph) on the freeway I am sitting at 1200-1300f on my EGT gauge... if that is any help..

 

Not anytime soon on the EGT guage... I'm broke as hell right now and just trying to get this car running decently and reliably. My gas milage is still roughly 15mpg, a huge improvement over the pre-ECU ground reinforcement, but still not where I'd like it to be.

The NGK plug wires are the blue 8mm variety, and from what I understand are basically the same as the OEM wires. I think my plugs are about shot, the car has been running rather roughly for the last little bit, and redoing the ECU ground cleared that up, but I think new plugs may help. I'll also look into the OEM plug wires, but if someone could confirm or deny that the NGK's are the same thing that would be most appreciated.

Definately post your dyno sheet... I'll see if I can find someone with a scanner to digitize mine, but seeing yours would be a big help in IDing if we are having the same problem.

 

Still no luck finding a scanner for the dyno sheet yet.

I'm going to try putting in a new set of plugs this weekend and see if that makes a difference... my car's been running poorly for about 2 months and just guzzling gas, so maybe the plugs are fouled beyond belief. I've got big hands... so getting into the plugs to pull them usually results in injury so I'd just rather do it once and swap the plugs.

Should be going to a 3" single exit turbo back exhaust in a few weeks. So I will eliminate a lot of the emissions stuff (gotta love South Carolina vehicle inspections) but my understanding was that that stuff only operated at lower RPM.

At that point I'll put a S-AFC on as well to try to balance out the fuel and get it back on the dyno.

 

Sorry it took so long, here's mine:



Two larger versions can be found below. (I didn't want to bog the forum any worse..)

http://home.comcast.net/~sirelfking/dyno/dynomed.jpg

and even bigger:

http://home.comcast.net/~sirelfking/dyno/dynobig.jpg

If anyone has any clues im sure we could both use them. I love the way the car is running now.. fast enough for me, but I know its not running right.. so I want to at least get it running right with the power curve and all...

 

I just read the original post and none of the answers, so bare with me:

I have two turboii's. I have two widebands. Both cars run pig rich. NO...make that they ran rich i.e. past tense. I bought two safc and they no longer run PIG RICH. On the high setting of the safc I have close to twenty percent taken OUT over three grand.

Prior to the safc I was seeing the wideband dip into the 9's and definetly in the low 10's. The cars run noticably crisper and better NOW.

Oh...no waldo pump involved. Stock...but with the rewire. One rewire as stated on this site and the other rewire is what I call MY REWIRE. Basically my rewire just circumvents the Circuit Opening Relay. That is the part of the circuit that drags/sucks/drops the voltage to the pump. Still use the fuel pump resistor though, for non boost situations.

 

I was throwing this idea round in my head about picking up an SAFC II. But I was also thinking that the problem may be something else causing it to go that rich.. I heard they ran rich but... well this is excessive..
I wanted to try and fix it without an SAFC.. only becuase I didn't think it was normal to be running like that... but there may be nothing wrong with the car from what your telling me... if it really does run that rich stock.. looks like it just needs some finer tuning...

I suppose I will be picking one up then.

 

I was throwing this idea round in my head about picking up an SAFC II. But I was also thinking that the problem may be something else causing it to go that rich.. I heard they ran rich but... well this is excessive..
I wanted to try and fix it without an SAFC.. only becuase I didn't think it was normal to be running like that... but there may be nothing wrong with the car from what your telling me... if it really does run that rich stock.. looks like it just needs some finer tuning...

I suppose I will be picking one up then********************************************** *

Buy a wideband before the SAFC or both at the same time. I tried different injectors and different ECU's and am convinced that they run as rich as I described. But dont' trust anyone. Buy the safc AND the wideband and see for yourself and adjust for yourself. Just my opinion. I KNOW it conflicts with a lot of what is written on this forum. So what, says I.

 

we have a stock fuel cosmo 13b powered t2, and it runs rich @12psi, stock fuel, your mileage may vary. we found that plugging in the fuel pressure regulator on an s5 car turns the secondaries on and this keeps it running rich

 

For the wideband, do you have any recommendations as to which brand to get? Where to get it, and do I need to tap yet another spot ont he downpipe for it? or does it replace the stock location... ?

Thanks for the help..

 

I use the TechEdge from Aus. Their version 1. They have a newer version that is more sophisticated and uses a cheaper sensor. Just type in TechEdge on Google or whatever your search engine is and read their site.

Innovative is another recommended on this site. Do a search on this site for wideband and see what comes up.

On one car the sensor is located in a bung I welded in near the normal o2 sensor and on the other car I moved it to about a foot from the left rear muffler to see if there was a difference. Nope, Reads the same and is coole there and less cluttered .

The newer TechEdge could be put in the original sensor location and it has an output from the electronics that will simulated a zero to one volt output of the normal o2 sensor....so you could use that bung instead of welding in a buck fifty bung near it. Unfortunatly the cheaper sensor is sensitive to ....HEAT. It has to be shielded from the heat from what I read....but you could weld a bung in way down the exaust such as the one I put near my muffler.

If you don't have a welder go to a muffler shop and I bet they would weld one in for you but I know not at what price. The bungs can be had from SummitRacing or Jeg's or?????? Maybe even a muffler shop. It's not a big deal for them. Just drill a hole the bung size and weld it in. But they have boat payments to make so......

Actually, for my na to turbo car that is in the works, I plan to buy a Innovative just to see how it works out in comparison to the TEchEdge.http://www.techedge.com.au/

 

Hailers,
Thanks again for all of your help. I will definately look into a wide band. Im not going for power myself just having the car reliable. I think its got a great power band right now and plenty for me. I was asking all these questions to get it out of the massively over rich state.. I also have to be aware of the smog-ernator coming after me. (Being in California and all..)

Im sure I could get away with getting the SAFC tuned from a wideband on a dyno.. but I could also understand it being helpful in the car to be aware of problems etc. Hmm I guess I just need to justify spending the money to myself by saying it will help keep me from the all mighty detonation everyone speaks of.

Also I had no idea it didnt make a difference as to where you put the sensor... thats good to hear, I could definately put in place somewhere else... So you put yours after you're cat and before your muffler? or do you have a test pipe/no cat, things like that? I don't want to throw off my readings if I have my cat and you don't have one.. before I go doing this myself...

I hope the origional starter of this thread gets some help from this information...

Thanks again..

 

OOOOps. Sorry. One is located just prior to the left muffler.......but the cat is ....welllllll sort of not on the car. A wideband located after the cat is a useless device on this car. When the cat is installed the wideband sensor goes forward into the welded in bung down the downpipe. That bung gets plugged when using the bung at the muffler.

When running with the cat the wideband must be prior to the cat. So you will need to get a wideband that also simulates a 0-1volts signal along with the wideband signal. That way you can use your normal o2 sensor bung alone. Or you can get a bung welded in. It's preferable to get it welded in down the downpipe ...closer to the cat than the turbo to keep the heat down.

 

Yeah... I'm getting some useful info.

I may have found the issue with the dead rich, I removed my air pump the other weekend and replaced the cat with a test pipe. A few days later, I noticed that when the car got really hot (100+ degrees ambient this past week in SC) that I was having a lot of problems with the car running right. It felt like a boost leak, but I knew all the I/C piping was good, but the one clamp that I hadn't tried to tighten was the clamp holding the sleeve to the turbo outlet on the hotpipe since the clamp was at an angle that made adjusting it with the airpump on impossible to reach. I put about 5 or 7 full turns into this sucker, and now it seems to be a lot more responsive.

I should have the car back on the dyno in the next couple of days since we have a few customers that we are tuning for, I will see if this solves the problem. On colder days, I am seeing boost creep to 10PSI in 3rd and 4th, so I'm reluctant to push the car without knowing that I still have enough fuel. We are backed up at the shop, so porting the wastegate will have to wait until we can get some jobs finished and out the door.

One thing I did notice when we were doing the runs is that heatsoak is partially responsible for the breakup. We do the runs with the hood open, so no air is being forced through the intercooler... we had a buddy spray the I/C during a run last week and the breakup past 5500 still happened but is not as severe. I have to find a fan that I can place on the I/C, because the dyno doesn't have an extra, just a big fan to run through the radiator.

The last time at the dyno I put down 180HP and 173 ftlbs of torque before the breakup at 5500... I'm hoping that if we can handle the heatsoak, then I may be able to put down close to 195 or so to the rear wheels.

I have a SAFC... we just need to get it installed, which we will try to do before the next dyno session that we run the car at. We were all set to do it at the last dyno session, I had my interior torn apart and the ECU all exposed and the soldering iron warming up when we discovered that my partner left it in his desk at the shop because he was in a rush.

 

Here is another wideband suggestion:

http://www.zeitronix.com/Products/zt2/zt2.htm

I have heard a lot of good things about this product, both reviews and also personal recommendations from some other tuners.

When I finally pay off my SR20DEBT then it will be going into my FC3S.