87 TII, why am I so LEAN!?
05-31-11, 07:13 PM
#26
For the scaling on my graphs, we're looking at only 11-12 seconds worth of total time. The data points are all separated by about 0.06 to 0.09 seconds. The sampling rate is set by the ECU, but you can definitely play with the scaling on PLViewer. Even so, it's pretty obvious that messing with the sensor line helped on that car. The second graph is much smoother.
05-31-11, 07:29 PM
#27
yea it definitely helped but now i'm starting to think that perhaps this ECU may be faulty, the car has never made as much power as it should and i could never figure out why and have been fighting little issues like the MAP signal. there is also clearly a dead spot in the airflow meter signal from about the 6300-7000 RPM point which is hurting peak horsepower which is hitting at 8450 RPMs. the AFM signal totally flatlines for exactly 650 RPMs then reacts again once over 7k.
06-02-11, 04:19 PM
#28
^Satch, did you find that bit of info in the FSM or training manual? The only criteria I've been able to confirm for the secondaries to function are 1) 3800+ RPM 2) 0 manifold pressure or greater 3) Throttle position.
At any rate, there's no way to tell via the Rtek if the neutral switch is on/off. But there is a flag for the secondaries, which will show you when they come online.
Sharingan, I've attached a snapshot from one of your logs that you posted awhile back, and your secondaries do in fact come online. The thing is you're just making so little boost (3 psi max) that they come on very late, and actually go on/off at one point. For low boost, the AFRs at the transition actually look fairly normal. I'll sometimes get a momentary spike to ~13 AFR, but it evens out by the next data point. It looks like in the particular log that the mixture settles into the 12s soon after, which is perfectly reasonable when you're hovering around atmospheric pressure.
Is your car still having trouble making boost, or did that get settled?
At any rate, there's no way to tell via the Rtek if the neutral switch is on/off. But there is a flag for the secondaries, which will show you when they come online.
Sharingan, I've attached a snapshot from one of your logs that you posted awhile back, and your secondaries do in fact come online. The thing is you're just making so little boost (3 psi max) that they come on very late, and actually go on/off at one point. For low boost, the AFRs at the transition actually look fairly normal. I'll sometimes get a momentary spike to ~13 AFR, but it evens out by the next data point. It looks like in the particular log that the mixture settles into the 12s soon after, which is perfectly reasonable when you're hovering around atmospheric pressure.
Is your car still having trouble making boost, or did that get settled?
Everything is fine up until 3500 / 3-5psi then it shoots up to ridiculous afr's and sputters. Despite the fact that the rtek indicates that the secondaries are on. I posted a better log, I will see if I can find it...
06-02-11, 04:49 PM
#29
Here is a post I made in the other thread concerning the leaning issues w/ pics and a full datalog of 1-2-3 and 5th gear pulls.
https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...1&postcount=43
https://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php...1&postcount=43
And the results are in....
What I did was pull off from a stop and ran out 1st 2nd and 3rd, I then put it into 5th and cruised down the road a bit...
Despite the lean AFR it pulled pretty hard and did not hiccup.
Then I went WOT in 5th while monitoring AFR...
Everything went smoothly, and counter-intuitively the afr's dropped to a reasonable level unlike the 1-2-3 pulls.
I came to another stoplight and ran through 1st, 2nd, and 3rd again, but this time I used part throttle instead of WOT.....apparently my car does NOT like this wtf???
I'm out of ideas on this one, makes no sense to me.
Finally I did another WOT 5th gear pull and pretty much got the same results...
I have attached a copy of the full log, 6:33 for anyone interested in specifics or other areas of operation. I would appreciate any insight that anyone may have in regards to improvements to be made.
What I did was pull off from a stop and ran out 1st 2nd and 3rd, I then put it into 5th and cruised down the road a bit...
Despite the lean AFR it pulled pretty hard and did not hiccup.
Then I went WOT in 5th while monitoring AFR...
Everything went smoothly, and counter-intuitively the afr's dropped to a reasonable level unlike the 1-2-3 pulls.
I came to another stoplight and ran through 1st, 2nd, and 3rd again, but this time I used part throttle instead of WOT.....apparently my car does NOT like this wtf???
I'm out of ideas on this one, makes no sense to me.
Finally I did another WOT 5th gear pull and pretty much got the same results...
I have attached a copy of the full log, 6:33 for anyone interested in specifics or other areas of operation. I would appreciate any insight that anyone may have in regards to improvements to be made.
06-02-11, 05:27 PM
#30
Yikes. That second to last one definitely shows the AFRs going extremely lean at the secondary transition. Injector duty cycle actually drops off as the RPMs increase. Maybe you have a serious case of 3800 RPM hesitation? I think if it were me, I'd reground all of the ECU ground pins, open it and check for burnt components & test every sensor output per the FSM. I'm sure you've probably already tried a lot of this.
06-02-11, 06:29 PM
#31
Moderator
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: https://www2.mazda.com/en/100th/
Posts: 30,819
Received 2,590 Likes
on
1,839 Posts
how come on the 1st set of runs, its boosting 10psi, and on the 3rd set its only doing 3?
and on the 3rd set of runs how come the air flow number DROPS? you can see that airflow goes up, and the secondaries turn on, and then turn off as the air flow drops.
5th gear does look normal, and there IS a 5th gear switch in the trans, so the ecu knows its in 5th maybe this matters?
and on the 3rd set of runs how come the air flow number DROPS? you can see that airflow goes up, and the secondaries turn on, and then turn off as the air flow drops.
5th gear does look normal, and there IS a 5th gear switch in the trans, so the ecu knows its in 5th maybe this matters?
06-02-11, 06:47 PM
#32
Yikes. That second to last one definitely shows the AFRs going extremely lean at the secondary transition. Injector duty cycle actually drops off as the RPMs increase. Maybe you have a serious case of 3800 RPM hesitation? I think if it were me, I'd reground all of the ECU ground pins, open it and check for burnt components & test every sensor output per the FSM. I'm sure you've probably already tried a lot of this.
Yes, I have tried all of that, I also added an ecu ground, checked injector resistance, checked/swapped boost sensors, required the fuel pump, verified pump voltage, pressure tested the intake tract, re-sealed the uim, and something else I'm sure I've forgotten.
Edit...haven't liked for burnt components
06-02-11, 06:56 PM
#33
how come on the 1st set of runs, its boosting 10psi, and on the 3rd set its only doing 3?
and on the 3rd set of runs how come the air flow number DROPS? you can see that airflow goes up, and the secondaries turn on, and then turn off as the air flow drops.
5th gear does look normal, and there IS a 5th gear switch in the trans, so the ecu knows its in 5th maybe this matters?
and on the 3rd set of runs how come the air flow number DROPS? you can see that airflow goes up, and the secondaries turn on, and then turn off as the air flow drops.
5th gear does look normal, and there IS a 5th gear switch in the trans, so the ecu knows its in 5th maybe this matters?
While there is a 5th gear switch I'm fairly sure the smoother performance in 5th has more to do w/ the decreased airflow/boost (and thus no need for secondaries)
06-09-11, 12:46 AM
#34
Ok, just to update, the strange leaning issue had been solved!
I couldn't figure out why it started after I changed the clutch/flywheel, I figured I must have missed a ground or knocked a write loose somehow...wrong. Apparently it was the break in period for the clutch that must have caused my secondaries to stick closed.
Yesterday I (once again) pulled the uim verified injector resistance, checked harness/plug continuity, fuel pressure and vac leaks. However I also decided to apply 12v to the secondary injectors while the rail was pressurized. To my surprise (well not too surprised as they were recently cleaned) they both worked great. Fed up that I couldn't find this mystery problem I bolted everything back up and called it a night.
Today on the way back from picking up a 20b afm
I decided I'd see where it wanted to lean out today. I almost **** myself when I saw 9.2 afr! Lmao, guess I should go back to the stock map now that the secondaries work again.
M oforal the story, use your secondaries every time u drive and never let them go unused for 2 months, even if you're breaking in a clutch!
I couldn't figure out why it started after I changed the clutch/flywheel, I figured I must have missed a ground or knocked a write loose somehow...wrong. Apparently it was the break in period for the clutch that must have caused my secondaries to stick closed.
Yesterday I (once again) pulled the uim verified injector resistance, checked harness/plug continuity, fuel pressure and vac leaks. However I also decided to apply 12v to the secondary injectors while the rail was pressurized. To my surprise (well not too surprised as they were recently cleaned) they both worked great. Fed up that I couldn't find this mystery problem I bolted everything back up and called it a night.
Today on the way back from picking up a 20b afm
I decided I'd see where it wanted to lean out today. I almost **** myself when I saw 9.2 afr! Lmao, guess I should go back to the stock map now that the secondaries work again. M oforal the story, use your secondaries every time u drive and never let them go unused for 2 months, even if you're breaking in a clutch!
06-09-11, 01:41 AM
#36
Perhaps, although I pulled the clips before when I checked their continuity. What are the odds that they made a bad connection (causing the original problem) them made another bad connection (causing the problem to persist) only to be solved by a third removal/application process? Bare in mind that these clips are less than a year old, and were replaced when the injectors were installed.
06-10-11, 08:01 AM
#39
Crimped. I've never had a crimped connection fail, the same cannot be said for solder, and sitting right on to of the engine.....yeah.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
