350hp Goal, Need Tips
#26
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While that may be fine for your 240, it's not fine for this - he already even considered and rejected that. Also, you have no idea how to work with a rotary so please don't jump into random other threads and suggest crap.
Thanks. Now let's get back to your convertible's problems...
Thanks. Now let's get back to your convertible's problems...
cam it and ull b over 400 hp
no boost lag or worrying about booost just nail it n go
(just a suggestion) and your rite i have a s13 with a ls in it ... gets up and goes haha
althought 13b motors an what 20b? are beast when u do them rite ive seen vids they are nutzzzzzzzzzzzz
#29
Rotary Enthusiast
While that may be fine for your 240, it's not fine for this - he already even considered and rejected that. Also, you have no idea how to work with a rotary so please don't jump into random other threads and suggest crap.
Thanks. Now let's get back to your convertible's problems...
Thanks. Now let's get back to your convertible's problems...
OP asked for the easiest way for 350hp for a budget, while it may not meet to your standards, you can't deny that a V8 swap is the easiest way.
So calm down, and try to understand that not everyone has as closed a mind or as biased an opinion.
As for 350hp goal, rebuild would be highly suggested no matter what engine you get. Factor in dyno tuning. Clutch. TII drivetrain. Cooling system upgrade. Front mount or V mount setup. Either hybrid or bigger turbo.
It may be easy to hit 350, but doing it reliably and safely, you start to stray from cheap.
#30
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Imma just quote this.... Again.
Now let's see here...
…The OP denied the V8, so I figure that gives free range to open fire XD
Also, we have an "alternate engine swap" section [that I naturally never visit]... There are also entire other forums for "that". This is 2nd Generation Specific Technical: Technically - the FC never came with one ^_-
For a budget 350HP build... I don't really see how it's any significant amount easier to remove all of the factory parts and install foreign parts than to add/swap parts [Exhaust is easy, injectors are pretty easy, engine computer is SUPER easy if it's Rtek... Other stuff starts getting there, I admit that]
My real problem is probably something like this: I feel throughly insulted when people "give up" on the rotary. [I'd like to imagine the engineers at Mazda feel the same way - the president of Mazda during FD dev. certainly would've: sig. quote]
95240Sx >> Thanks for taking it the right way. ^_^ I was a bit worried you might think I was trying to be mean [I really don't like to be mean or even confrontative... but the V8 swaps just tick me off to no end.. see above]
Hyper >> +1! Suspension is a must!
One final note before I hope we can drop this [awful] subject again I don't dislike V8s, they sound great, make great power - quite reliably, and every hick with a wrench has probably built about a dozen of them. I just want them to stay in their homes: Muscle cars and trucks.
Originally Posted by bunnybunny
While it may be fine in your eyes to bash every V8 RX-7 idea, that doesn't give you the right to do so.
OP asked for the easiest way for 350hp for a budget, while it may not meet to your standards, you can't deny that a V8 swap is the easiest way.
OP asked for the easiest way for 350hp for a budget, while it may not meet to your standards, you can't deny that a V8 swap is the easiest way.
Also, we have an "alternate engine swap" section [that I naturally never visit]... There are also entire other forums for "that". This is 2nd Generation Specific Technical: Technically - the FC never came with one ^_-
For a budget 350HP build... I don't really see how it's any significant amount easier to remove all of the factory parts and install foreign parts than to add/swap parts [Exhaust is easy, injectors are pretty easy, engine computer is SUPER easy if it's Rtek... Other stuff starts getting there, I admit that]
My real problem is probably something like this: I feel throughly insulted when people "give up" on the rotary. [I'd like to imagine the engineers at Mazda feel the same way - the president of Mazda during FD dev. certainly would've: sig. quote]
95240Sx >> Thanks for taking it the right way. ^_^ I was a bit worried you might think I was trying to be mean [I really don't like to be mean or even confrontative... but the V8 swaps just tick me off to no end.. see above]
Hyper >> +1! Suspension is a must!
One final note before I hope we can drop this [awful] subject again I don't dislike V8s, they sound great, make great power - quite reliably, and every hick with a wrench has probably built about a dozen of them. I just want them to stay in their homes: Muscle cars and trucks.
#31
Rotary Enthusiast
I never give up on the rotary haha, he denied the carbed 350 idea. The LS is a whole different animal haha. I'm not offended by a purist, I was one until I sat down and weighed my options vs what I want my car to do. And my next project will be a 13B bridged FB. There is no way I'll give up on rotary.
Reaching 350 isn't too big a problem, but generally on a rotary, "budget" is a term you use effectively haha. There is a lot to consider, and prep for.
Reaching 350 isn't too big a problem, but generally on a rotary, "budget" is a term you use effectively haha. There is a lot to consider, and prep for.
#32
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All >> Bunnybunny:
^_^ I am genuinely happy to hear that you haven't given up. [Please send me a PM if you make a thread about that FB, it sounds like an awesome project]
He did say "against putting in something with pistons" so the LS is precluded as well...
lol.. Yea the key seems to be finding deals, for my 91 A package-> Turbo swap I've managed to get some pretty amazing ones: a RB REV TII catback for $100, a JDM reman with manifolds, turbo and everything except a wiring harness for $260, a pair of T2 transmissions for $120, etc.. But I've been saving parts for over a year and a half now slowly finding these deals. [and I've been unemployed for the last ~year, I definitely feel the budget crunch..]
I'm glad that my [extreme] purism isn't offensive. XD
I hope you never take any of my V8-bashing personally.. If you've thought that I ever said anything that way, I apologize. I really don't want anyone to feel like I'm attacking *their build* [I have seen a couple of VERY well installed V8s in FDs... I just hate that it's not a rotary :/]
>_< I hope I'm explaining clearly.. I like you, I like your car, I like your build, I don't like it being [non-rotary]
We cool ?
^_^ I am genuinely happy to hear that you haven't given up. [Please send me a PM if you make a thread about that FB, it sounds like an awesome project]
He did say "against putting in something with pistons" so the LS is precluded as well...
lol.. Yea the key seems to be finding deals, for my 91 A package-> Turbo swap I've managed to get some pretty amazing ones: a RB REV TII catback for $100, a JDM reman with manifolds, turbo and everything except a wiring harness for $260, a pair of T2 transmissions for $120, etc.. But I've been saving parts for over a year and a half now slowly finding these deals. [and I've been unemployed for the last ~year, I definitely feel the budget crunch..]
I'm glad that my [extreme] purism isn't offensive. XD
I hope you never take any of my V8-bashing personally.. If you've thought that I ever said anything that way, I apologize. I really don't want anyone to feel like I'm attacking *their build* [I have seen a couple of VERY well installed V8s in FDs... I just hate that it's not a rotary :/]
>_< I hope I'm explaining clearly.. I like you, I like your car, I like your build, I don't like it being [non-rotary]
We cool ?
#33
Rotary Enthusiast
Haha no problems, just told you to calm down a bit because you are always fired up at the thought of it hahahaha. I didn't see the no pistons statement, just the no 350 part haha.
Where the frig did you get a RB exhaust for $100?! That's insane to find deals like that. I traded an old Fossil watch for a full 350 and trans, and my cars going to be based around going as quickly in the 1/4 as possible and that's it. So the pistons seem the best way for me.
Where the frig did you get a RB exhaust for $100?! That's insane to find deals like that. I traded an old Fossil watch for a full 350 and trans, and my cars going to be based around going as quickly in the 1/4 as possible and that's it. So the pistons seem the best way for me.
#34
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How is a V8 swap the easiest way?
Get a j-spec 13B from a trusted importer, install with associated RTek, injectors, medium sized intercooler and hybrid stock turbo. Done. No fabrication, not cutting and welding, etc. It all bolts right in with aftermarket parts and will run $3000.
Certainly better then pulling some random 350 out of an '80s vehicle (carbureted, cast iron POS).
Get a j-spec 13B from a trusted importer, install with associated RTek, injectors, medium sized intercooler and hybrid stock turbo. Done. No fabrication, not cutting and welding, etc. It all bolts right in with aftermarket parts and will run $3000.
Certainly better then pulling some random 350 out of an '80s vehicle (carbureted, cast iron POS).
#35
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the only reason that its easy to get big HP numbers from a v8, is because it sucked so bad in the first place! a 13B would have to make 100hp to make the same hp/liter as an 80's V8.
#36
Rotary Enthusiast
How is a V8 swap the easiest way?
Get a j-spec 13B from a trusted importer, install with associated RTek, injectors, medium sized intercooler and hybrid stock turbo. Done. No fabrication, not cutting and welding, etc. It all bolts right in with aftermarket parts and will run $3000.
Certainly better then pulling some random 350 out of an '80s vehicle (carbureted, cast iron POS).
Get a j-spec 13B from a trusted importer, install with associated RTek, injectors, medium sized intercooler and hybrid stock turbo. Done. No fabrication, not cutting and welding, etc. It all bolts right in with aftermarket parts and will run $3000.
Certainly better then pulling some random 350 out of an '80s vehicle (carbureted, cast iron POS).
I already have a high nickel 350 roller cam block, bored .030 over, with new bearings, rods, pistons, a forged crank, and a set of Vortec heads. I also have a rebuilt 700R4 transmission. I have a set of headers and Flowmaster mufflers as well. The engine ran exceptionally well when pulled in December. And with a proper carb, intake manifold, and cam, the engine should be well into where I want it.
What I do not have is a Jspec 13B, Rtek, injectors, medium sized intercooler, and a hybrid stock turbo.
So for me, the 350 swap is MUCH better for my needs/wants.
#37
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Even from a "trusted importer" there can be zero guarantee that the engine will have any longevity. So I would have that engine rebuilt.
I already have a high nickel 350 roller cam block, bored .030 over, with new bearings, rods, pistons, a forged crank, and a set of Vortec heads. I also have a rebuilt 700R4 transmission. I have a set of headers and Flowmaster mufflers as well. The engine ran exceptionally well when pulled in December. And with a proper carb, intake manifold, and cam, the engine should be well into where I want it.
What I do not have is a Jspec 13B, Rtek, injectors, medium sized intercooler, and a hybrid stock turbo.
So for me, the 350 swap is MUCH better for my needs/wants.
I already have a high nickel 350 roller cam block, bored .030 over, with new bearings, rods, pistons, a forged crank, and a set of Vortec heads. I also have a rebuilt 700R4 transmission. I have a set of headers and Flowmaster mufflers as well. The engine ran exceptionally well when pulled in December. And with a proper carb, intake manifold, and cam, the engine should be well into where I want it.
What I do not have is a Jspec 13B, Rtek, injectors, medium sized intercooler, and a hybrid stock turbo.
So for me, the 350 swap is MUCH better for my needs/wants.
#38
Rotary Enthusiast
I also have added in tips for making 350 on a 13B.
You have only expressed your want to be a moderator by telling people what they can and cannot do in a thread that is not yours. If the O.P. has a problem with my posts, I'll refrain.
If any of my posts are deemed not worthy, by all means, they can be removed and I won't be offended one bit.
#39
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easier to fit 20b into fc than fd so thatd be cool. id get rid of the supercharger tho and spend up large on pp'ing it or turbo.
for 13b route id go half bridge rebuilt and dowelled block from a jc.grab yourself a microtech ecu. 850cc primaries and 1600cc secondaries and fuel rails while youre at it. surge tank with bosch 044 pump. some bosch coils, 10mm leads, ngk bur9eqs all round. fmic. atleast 50mm wastgate and a masterpower turbo (discuss with them whether you want laggy heavy hitting or resonsive) or other of your choice. chuck some gillys, and lightened flywheel and heavy duty clutchl at it for fun. ewp and alternater relocation kit (if you got rid of your powersteer and aircon) thick core radiator and biggest electric fan possible. probably forgot stuff and itll take a couple years on your budget and youll be well past 350 horse but you wont regret it.
for 13b route id go half bridge rebuilt and dowelled block from a jc.grab yourself a microtech ecu. 850cc primaries and 1600cc secondaries and fuel rails while youre at it. surge tank with bosch 044 pump. some bosch coils, 10mm leads, ngk bur9eqs all round. fmic. atleast 50mm wastgate and a masterpower turbo (discuss with them whether you want laggy heavy hitting or resonsive) or other of your choice. chuck some gillys, and lightened flywheel and heavy duty clutchl at it for fun. ewp and alternater relocation kit (if you got rid of your powersteer and aircon) thick core radiator and biggest electric fan possible. probably forgot stuff and itll take a couple years on your budget and youll be well past 350 horse but you wont regret it.
Flaco suggested the same thing, I think this is the route i'll end up going.
Dont want this to become a flame war,
But taking V8's and putting them in RX7's is cool, and it makes them fast, and I respect anyone who takes in the fab time to do the swap.
But for me taking the rotary out of an RX7 is something i don't want do.
it's a one of kind engine and I'd like to keep it.
#40
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The post you quote above is terrible advice. Half bridge to make only 350HP? Waste of a bridgeport and will only get you poor fuel economy and an engine that is difficult to tune.
Stock ports are fine at the 350 HP level. Also an RTek will easily support that power level instead of a Microtech (I would NEVER suggest anyone buy a Microtech...it is antiquated at this point and actually a WORSE choice for a 350HP daily driver than an RTek). A hybrid stock turbo is the way to go since you don't have to buy a manifold. If you want to upgrade turbos, look at the T4B, GT35R and turbos along those lines.
Stock ports are fine at the 350 HP level. Also an RTek will easily support that power level instead of a Microtech (I would NEVER suggest anyone buy a Microtech...it is antiquated at this point and actually a WORSE choice for a 350HP daily driver than an RTek). A hybrid stock turbo is the way to go since you don't have to buy a manifold. If you want to upgrade turbos, look at the T4B, GT35R and turbos along those lines.
#41
Rotary Enthusiast
The post you quote above is terrible advice. Half bridge to make only 350HP? Waste of a bridgeport and will only get you poor fuel economy and an engine that is difficult to tune.
Stock ports are fine at the 350 HP level. Also an RTek will easily support that power level instead of a Microtech (I would NEVER suggest anyone buy a Microtech...it is antiquated at this point and actually a WORSE choice for a 350HP daily driver than an RTek). A hybrid stock turbo is the way to go since you don't have to buy a manifold. If you want to upgrade turbos, look at the T4B, GT35R and turbos along those lines.
Stock ports are fine at the 350 HP level. Also an RTek will easily support that power level instead of a Microtech (I would NEVER suggest anyone buy a Microtech...it is antiquated at this point and actually a WORSE choice for a 350HP daily driver than an RTek). A hybrid stock turbo is the way to go since you don't have to buy a manifold. If you want to upgrade turbos, look at the T4B, GT35R and turbos along those lines.
#42
F**K THE SYSTEM!!
japan2la JDM motor =1500- 1600$
No rebuild = 0$
used haltech microtech = 700$
Good custom manifold with thick runners for no cracks = 400$ ( find a local dont buy from 1000$ full of **** and will crack manifolds)
Find a used t4 footprint turbo. bigger & less boost = shitty powerband but more reliable.
400$ or so.
ID injectors 800$
aeromotive 340 unitversal intank pump = 175$
The last but most important part of the puzzle = e85.
Your car is builty in 1 year=P
Less than 4 thousand. your lookind at around 3700..
While this engine wears out you can be using you other 2300 to gather your next engine parts. good seals and port work.
BY the way 4000 dollars is wayyyyy to much for building a ported block.
Unless it includes all labor.... engines pulled rebuilt and reinstalled in working condition.
No rebuild = 0$
used haltech microtech = 700$
Good custom manifold with thick runners for no cracks = 400$ ( find a local dont buy from 1000$ full of **** and will crack manifolds)
Find a used t4 footprint turbo. bigger & less boost = shitty powerband but more reliable.
400$ or so.
ID injectors 800$
aeromotive 340 unitversal intank pump = 175$
The last but most important part of the puzzle = e85.
Your car is builty in 1 year=P
Less than 4 thousand. your lookind at around 3700..
While this engine wears out you can be using you other 2300 to gather your next engine parts. good seals and port work.
BY the way 4000 dollars is wayyyyy to much for building a ported block.
Unless it includes all labor.... engines pulled rebuilt and reinstalled in working condition.
#43
F**K THE SYSTEM!!
Aaroncake. some of the most powerfull cars ont his forum run microtechs.
Top rotary tuners including kilo racing prefer microtech,. nuff said.
But you are right about not needing full EMS and the rtek being adequate for a 350whp goal.
Top rotary tuners including kilo racing prefer microtech,. nuff said.
But you are right about not needing full EMS and the rtek being adequate for a 350whp goal.
#44
Rotary Enthusiast
i thought as much about aaroncake. read alot of his posts really knowledgeable guy. (probably one of the most knowledgable) was just confused on the microtech not being recommended. (pretty sure no one in nz uses chips or even really piggybacks. just throw away stock ecu and go all out) rtek being adequate for 350whp why not go for something thats good for now and great for later. hes gonna want more power and mods down the track so why spend money twice.
#46
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really? dont use a microtech. either you got terrible tuners over there or all of NZ must be using witch craft to run their cars? (or you only have experience with old models?) anyway my suggestion of mods was a half joke because i ignored his 350 hp brief and wrote a list for big and reliable. and expensive but it would be worth a couple years wait
Remember, I have a Microtech LT8s on my car, which is driven nearly daily and makes just North of 500 RWHP. I've had this ECU on the car for 5 years and have many hours tuning this and other Microtechs.
But I can never recommend Microtech to anyone. I'm happy with mine because it has been reliable and doesn't suffer the trigger problems that many other ECUs seem to have.
So why would I not recommend it?
-no closed loop
-no 3D timing table
-no save to disk
-poor interpolation between load points on lower resolution table, making it hard to get a smooth tune
-inputs/outputs only configurable by sending ECU back to manufacturer
-necessity of a "dongle" to communicate with computer
-seriously out of date computer software
Microtech has promised us many of these features for 10 years yet not delivered on a single one. We were always told "After the LT16". Now the LT16 is here and it lacks these key features as well... http://microtechefi.com/download/LT16-spec.pdf .
Top tuners often prefer the ECUs on which they have the most experience. Sometimes regardless of how out of date they are. Keep in mind that all of these features I point out have been standard on most other ECUs for over 10 years.
#47
Rotary Enthusiast
I wondered if I would have to justify my comments regarding Microtech.
Remember, I have a Microtech LT8s on my car, which is driven nearly daily and makes just North of 500 RWHP. I've had this ECU on the car for 5 years and have many hours tuning this and other Microtechs.
But I can never recommend Microtech to anyone. I'm happy with mine because it has been reliable and doesn't suffer the trigger problems that many other ECUs seem to have.
So why would I not recommend it?
-no closed loop
-no 3D timing table
-no save to disk
-poor interpolation between load points on lower resolution table, making it hard to get a smooth tune
-inputs/outputs only configurable by sending ECU back to manufacturer
-necessity of a "dongle" to communicate with computer
-seriously out of date computer software
Microtech has promised us many of these features for 10 years yet not delivered on a single one. We were always told "After the LT16". Now the LT16 is here and it lacks these key features as well... http://microtechefi.com/download/LT16-spec.pdf .
Top tuners often prefer the ECUs on which they have the most experience. Sometimes regardless of how out of date they are. Keep in mind that all of these features I point out have been standard on most other ECUs for over 10 years.
Remember, I have a Microtech LT8s on my car, which is driven nearly daily and makes just North of 500 RWHP. I've had this ECU on the car for 5 years and have many hours tuning this and other Microtechs.
But I can never recommend Microtech to anyone. I'm happy with mine because it has been reliable and doesn't suffer the trigger problems that many other ECUs seem to have.
So why would I not recommend it?
-no closed loop
-no 3D timing table
-no save to disk
-poor interpolation between load points on lower resolution table, making it hard to get a smooth tune
-inputs/outputs only configurable by sending ECU back to manufacturer
-necessity of a "dongle" to communicate with computer
-seriously out of date computer software
Microtech has promised us many of these features for 10 years yet not delivered on a single one. We were always told "After the LT16". Now the LT16 is here and it lacks these key features as well... http://microtechefi.com/download/LT16-spec.pdf .
Top tuners often prefer the ECUs on which they have the most experience. Sometimes regardless of how out of date they are. Keep in mind that all of these features I point out have been standard on most other ECUs for over 10 years.
#48
Rotary Enthusiast
I was about to say that tuners usually stick with what they know, but Aaron got there first.
As for everything else, Aaron does know his stuff and can definitely point you in the right direction.
As for everything else, Aaron does know his stuff and can definitely point you in the right direction.
#49
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the Rtek is kind of a pain to tune cause you need a palm, but it is plug and play... the haltech is plug and troubleshoot!
#50
Rotary Enthusiast
haltech is in the same boat. HIGGI and i were playing with an E6X and that thing is such a primitive POS that i don't know how we got the cars to run right back in 2003!
the Rtek is kind of a pain to tune cause you need a palm, but it is plug and play... the haltech is plug and troubleshoot!
the Rtek is kind of a pain to tune cause you need a palm, but it is plug and play... the haltech is plug and troubleshoot!