Ryde _Or_Die

Hey I was wondering what the cost would be for this swap? I found the engine for $4000 with the ecu at corksport, then you need a tranny(which one?) & an intercooler(or does one come with?) & change the exhaust. How much would all of the parts cost, without labor? Thanks alot.

darkwaveboi

i heard around mid $20,000's from peter ferrall, but he only does FD work, so it might be different from what you need. a 20B also req. the heat sheild to be moved back for clearance of motor.

Scott 89t2

if you have to ask you can't afford it I doubt it has an ECU. and if it does I don't think you would want to use it. you need custom motor mounts. you need to find a flywheel, clutch, and starter that will fit and be ok. and you use your tranny. well a turbo tranny. you'd bust up you N/A one pretty good. you will need an IC, bigger rad. you need a custom waterneck out of the housing.

and probably alot more there is a reason there are only a few running 20b's on the road. and alot of "project cars"

HN

it can be done for about 7000 grand with aftermarket ecu. if you are going to purchase the 20b with stock ecu be sure to ask them if it includes the coils. sometimes they do not.

Ryde _Or_Die

Ya I think it comes with the stock ECU, they sell coils at akinsrotary.com for $150 a set, so thats another $450. Motor mounts would have to be made or what? How much should those run approximately? New radiator & intercooler. Hmmm..I don't see this as a $20,000 project at all. Looks like more around that $8-10,000. I could get the engine, ecu & tranny I need for around $4500. Plues the coils, so say $5,000. Then a new flywheel & clutch, so say $850 or so. Thats at $5800 now. Then an intercooler and radiator, so say $1500 or so. Thats $7,300. Then getting motor mounts made and a few other custom parts & labor. I would say around $9-10,000 roughly. Prolly end up more. I am not planning this just wondering. I was looking at the price for a rebuild/streetport & ot was $2300, and the 20B is $4000. Definitely will end up with a 20B in it after college is all done. Man I looked at www.atkinsrotary.com & they have a dyno sheet for a 20B with a single turbo with their fuel injection & ignition & its putting over 370hp to the ground. That would be a fast *** 2nd gen, especially if i was stripped. Could you imagine? I would say prolly mid 11s easy.

InitialD FC

iTrader: (1)

If you want 370 at the ground... a t04 kit will do that in a heartbeat. you dont need a 20b unless you are going for real power. I plan on gettin one sometime after i finish my setup and run around for a while on it. im shooting for almost twice that , and that is with 2 rotors...

Ryde _Or_Die

Ya but I have an NA, so I need alot of stuff to make my car fast & might as well go the best route because it would be expensive either way. I know I could get 370 out of a TII with an upgraded turbo and other things but with the 20B it would come easy, wouldn't be pushing the engine so much. Plus there is room for alot more power.

InitialD FC

iTrader: (1)

Ohh ok, yeah, you would do almost just as much work to get the turbo motor in there already, might as well go 20b! And its true, that motor will make some killer power without breaking a sweat.

Ryde _Or_Die

Ya thats what I figure. Eventually I will do it I think. Instead of buying a new sports car I will just make my own that will be one of a kind(Iknow there are a few 20B FCs but mine will have a body kit and custom everything ). Will be like 5 years though, o well will just have to make my NA as fast as possible for now.

Dyre

This has been covered SOOOOOO many times, PLEASE use the search button.

To do it cheap, figure at least $10k.
Evil has spent close to $35k already i think.

Evil Aviator

Yeah, but a lot of that is on suspension, safety equipment, single-turbo stuff, etc. However, the conversion is much more expensive and time-consuming than it looks. HN is right, the stock ECU only works with the stock coils and vice versa. Note that the 20B is only rated at 280ps (276bhp) in stock form, so I'm not sure that you would be too happy with the stock ECU.

Hehehe, it's even easier for him to search for a 20B FC than you guys, as I probably live less than 5 miles away from him.

Ryde _Or_Die

Ya thats true, he does live right there. What road do you live off of anyways? Man I gotta do that conversion in a few years. Or maybe you will be tired of yours and want to sell it to me, doubt that.

Ryde _Or_Die

Oh ya evil...ever see any TIIs for sale around here? I have never seen even one.

RETed

Gee, I end up sounding like a broken record already...

The stock ECU is WORTHLESS.&nbsp Repeat...don't fall for the trap that a seller is offering the ECU is worth money, cause (as someone already said), you need 1) the stock coil packs, and 2) the stock automatic transmission.&nbsp The auto trans programming is integrated into the stock ECU, so unless you fool the stock ECU that the stock auto trans is still working, the stock ECU will barf.

With that said and done, this is what you're looking at...

Haltech E6K $1,500 or Electromotive TEC-I $3,000
- you can't run true split trailing, but it'll make the engine run
Upgrade clutch - ACT will hold up to 500hp $500
Lightened flywheel $300+
- the 20B only comes in auto trans, so it'll come with the flexplate +
counterweight
Custom oil lines $200
- you'll need to fab the front oil line to coil cooler + turbo lines
Custom motor mounts $400
- K2RD sells them prefab'd for drop-in install
Upgrade radiator $300+
- the stock FC radiator is not good enough; the 20B runs HOT
Front mount intercooler $1,000+
- you'll need one
Turbo system $2,000+
- you'll need one unless you convert the stock twins to non-sequential
Fuel system upgrades $100+
- Walbro can support low 20B power outputs

The stock twin turbos do fit, but you'll need to fab the downpipe.&nbsp The stock twin turbos are TINY and barely will make over 300hp to the wheels.&nbsp The stock fuel injectors barely can support 300hp to the wheels, so anything more will require more (or bigger) fuel injectors.

The 20B will add about 100 lbs. more weight up front, but running stiffer springs (easy would be a custom Ground Control coilover set-up) will easily balance this.

The stock steering can stay intact.&nbsp You'll need to mod the stock front anti-sway bar - you'll need to change it anyways due to the extra weight.&nbsp Paul at K2RD is trying to design a "speedway" front anti-sway bar that will clear the 20B front end - this speedway bar is like the FD front anti-sway bar with a torsion straight bar center with splined ends.

The hood does not clear the stock 20B twin turbo piping and slightly rubs on the upper intake manifold.&nbsp You'll either have to cut the stock hood, shim, or go custom (fiberglass) hood.

After all of that, if you do get it running, the rear tires will go up in smoke. The beauty of the 20B is not the high horsepower levels, but the increase in torque over the twin rotor 13B!




-Ted

Evil Aviator

Yeah, I just sold one. I come across cars all the time, though, so if you let me know what you are looking for, I can let you know if I find anything.

I'm living off of Monette Road right now. My RX-7's are currently in St. Petersburg, and I usually work on them (or other RX-7's) once or twice a week when Scott is off work (Fri-Sun). You are welcome to ride along whenever you like.

BTW, I just need to swap the 15gal fuel cell into the 84, and then I'll be driving it around Riverview.

Ryde _Or_Die

How much do you usually find TIIs for?

Evil Aviator

$500-$3,000

Hehehe, the stock FC radiator barely works with a stock TII engine.

I think that you could get away without an IC if you run low boost and high octane, and you could also use a cheap Starion or Volvo junkyard IC. However, I don't see why anyone who put the time and money into a 20B swap would go for any of these "el cheapo" options. I chose the Spearco 2-248, which retails for about $1,000, like Ted said.

Yes, they are tiny, but Pettit makes 550hp with the stock turbos on a street-ported engine. The smaller turbo tends to burn up after about 2 years, but you could have saved up for a single-turbo upgrade in that amount of time.

Hehehe, that's exactly what Scott and I were considering. Are you using the .250" bar?

Just a clarification for the readers, the TII hood only requires minor internal cutting, while an NA hood would need a rather large hole cut in it. An alternative would be to pay PFS a large amount of money to relocate the engine like on the RXX-7, but I think that most of us will go for a TII hood and a Dremel tool. Also, the 20B thermostat housing must be modified or replaced with a 13B water pump, otherwise you will need to cut a hole in the hood for the thermostat to stick out like a periscope.

Ryde _Or_Die

So what kind of condition are those in? I might be interested in one that might need some minor cosmetic work but with a pretty fresh engine in a little while. How much do you think you can find one like that for? Somewhere around $1500 or so? Or one with a blown engine for under $1000 maybe? Thanks alot.

Evil Aviator

An average S4 with a blown engine goes for $500-800, but sometimes you can get it for free if you pick it up. A running beater sells for around $1,500-1,700, and a good-running S4 will go for $2,500-3,000. The S5 sells for a lot more unless the owner is ignorant, or if the car has the dreaded worn-out auto tranny. Hehehe, nobody is going to sell a TII with a pretty fresh engine unless it's been totaled or the transmission is shot.

Ryde _Or_Die

Ya I will settle for the series 4, its lighter at least which I like. You can put a J-spec in there still right?

Attila the Fun

iTrader: (1)

At one time, Jim Hagerty (Mariah Motorsports) quoted me a price of $36,000, which included the motor. Look at www.cris.com/~Asam/20B.html

It's for sale. If you're interested, please reply by e-mail to asam@cris.com, since I don't spend much time on the Forum.

Evil Aviator

That car is too nice to sell. You need to go with that single turbo setup that you were thinking about. Your kids will build more character by paying for college themselves.

Attila the Fun

iTrader: (1)

I like the way you think. The wife and kids don't, but they're wrong.

However, I fear that they may not have the character (self-discipline, drive, etc.) to push themselves to do it. I worked my way through college, and don't think of it as one the better times of my life. It certainly wasn't the easiest.

As for the single turbo upgrade, the only reason to do that would be if I took the car on the One Lap of America. The RXX-7 already goes from zero to illegal in a heartbeat, so spending an additional $15,000 (or more) just doesn't seem necessary.

Felix Wankel

I paid a grand for this 88 TII with 148k. (My friend gave me the 10th AE rims) It was just flooded. I had to put a fuel pump switch in it to make it driveable, but it'll last till I build an engine for it. I'm getting all the mods in place first though. Its actually rather quick despite its condition. I'll see what it does with my 3'' exhaust, 3'' TID, Walboro, FCD, BOV, etc...

RETed

Nope, it was pretty damn huge, and if I remember right it was over 1"!



-Ted