flubyux2

well guess what, after owning the car for 2 years, and compiling mods and parts, i finally went to norwalk to see what the car is capable of.

its an 88 SE 5speed, 2+2, na. heres what happend.

RT- .782
60'- 2.385
1/4- 15.263
MPH- 92.26

RT- .730
60'- 2.359
1/4- 15.284
MPH- 92.79

i was hoping for at least a 15.5...so i was sort of thrilled to see a 15.2 pop up. here are the mods:

INTAKE:
K&N (from MR2 turbo)
MAS advanced to read richer
TB mod
6PI operated by AIR pump, opens @ 4000
FUEL:
none
EXHUAST:
Precat 1 gutted
60mm race pipe replaces Precat2 and main cat
60mm exhaust w/ Jspec single (Arospeed canister)
WEIGHT:
PS removed
AC removed
PS/AC bracket removed
Subzero assist removed
electric fan mod
spare tire,jack,toolset removed
IGNITION:
NGK platinum, highway plugs
Accel superstock 8mm

i thikn those are all the mods i have. is this decent for an S4 na??? i mean, cmon, my biggest mods are an Intake and exhaust... what do you guys think?

according to a few horsepower calculators, they are ballparking my horsepower at around 200 HP at the flywheel, and about 160HP to the ground, is this pretty accurate?

thanks
chris

Silkworm

I think you should be very happy for a non ported 13B. Gotta work on the 60' though.

PaulC

peejay

Damn that's good! I wish I coulda been there, I've never seen an FC run faster than about 16.4

The HP calculators give you HP at the flywheel, not HP at the wheels. The formulae were worked out in the '50s by Chrysler engineers, and they didn't care about wheel horsepower.

Felix Wankel

Might crack a 14 with a good 60'

peejay

Probably go faster if you leaned it out - I haven't heard of anybody who needed to go richer!

vosko

iTrader: (4)

that's pretty good

rx-7fc

good time my best time was a 16.6 and has almost the same mods as you do

flubyux2

damn guys, its been a while since i was on the board, so i didnt really have any thing else to guage my performace, but if you say 16s is average for a nonturbo, nonported FC...then im freakin happy.

and i did come off the line both times w/ some wheelspin. so if i can get it to hook better, i just MIGHT break into the 14s...i would flip out if i got a slip that said 14.9....

oh yea, on the calculator i found, it tells both the FLYWHEEL and the WHEEL horsepower. they just calculated it for a 20% drivetrain loss. so i guess their original intent was to find HP at the flywheel, then they just calculate for the typical losses through the drivetrain to come up w/ the WHP... i forget what the sites were, but if you just do a search for "horsepower calculators" it comes up w/ a bunch of sites that use Trap speed, ET, vehicle weight, and then usually come up w/ the horsepower. some others are REALLY sophisticated, using Density of the air, relative humidity, temperature, and many other things...

i guess i should get something to read my AF ratio. should i try to tune by the EGT or what? i could always lean it out some...the exhaust Does reek. its about 4-5 clicks richer on the MAS. do you think it would run better if i leaned it out past the original setting???

who knows, i could always get a header.

btw, i read that the Mazda racing team used 79 octane on their IMSA/GTU cars when racing in the manufacturer's championship...in their nonturbo cars, of course. is there something that actually can LOWER the octane of fuel?

anywho, thanks for the input guys!

chris

Felix Wankel

Yeah, I'd turn the AFM back to where it was or even a couple clicks further.

Silkworm

What AFM adjustment?

The only thing the FSM mentions is the air bypass screw

So if that's what you mean, turn it which way for rich or lean?
PaulC

flubyux2

Silky, no no. we are actually talking about the AFM, or MAF, or MAS...whatever you wanna call it. but this is only for the S4 motor. this has the flapper-door style AFM.

the door is connected to a potentiometer. and as the air flow to the engine increases, the flapper opens more, and the potentiomer reads this, and tells the computer to add more fuel. and circuit inside the MAF that actually measures how far the door opens can be adjusted. you can make it so that the computer thinks the door is open more than it really is (richer) or make it so it thinks the door is NOT open more than it really is (leaner).

the MKI and the MKII toyota mr2's use similar Denso AFM's to our cars. and my friend had an 86 mr2, and told me about this. i asked around on the board a year or 2 ago, but no one knew about it and said it wasnt a good idea. but i tried it anyhow w/ no adverse effects, the only thing i guess is that i tuned it opposite of how i SHOULD have...seeing as how i was relating it to tuning a Piston engine. well rotary engines dont react to tuning techniques like a piston motor does... so im gonna try Felix's advice and go back friday night and see if i can break into the 14s.

but like i said, i wanna lower my fuel octane a little more first. AND, my electric fan too a crap on me, the motor seized up, and my engine ALMOST overheated. so does anyone have any suggestions on some octane reducer or a nice reliable electric fan to get??? this fan was only about 2 years old and ran anytime the key was on...

thanks guys
chris

peejay

You have 160hp at the flywheel.

If you have 200hp at the flywheel you'd be closer to 14.2

Silkworm

yeah, i've got an 88 AFM.. So I'm interested Any other clues on how to change this adjustment?

flubyux2

ah, 160hp, still good enough for me.

i did take down a Civic SI w/ a CAI, and those are rated at 160 too. so maybe i have the weight advantage and the Drivetrain advantage.

what kinda mods can i do to get me up to the 200hp mark? preferably the simplest and least involved...(for instance, a street port is NOT simple nor less involving)

thanks guys
chris

Ryde _Or_Die

Just get a 50 shot of N2O and get in the 14s

Therx7ist

go for headers first

Samps

Pineapple racing sleeves will help ya. Not sure if you consider that "involving" though.

flubyux2

'dude, your gettin NAWZ!'

nah, i think my o rings wont be able to handle it. ive got 106k on it now. i get puffs of blue smoke after i lett off the throttle from redlining it.

i wanna do a header, i already started another thread on fabricating one, check it out, its kinda interesting.

Samps, funny you mention that. another guy was into RX7s, mentiond it to me at the track...well actually he said to take them OUT...not replace them. if i took them out thered be quite a bit of turbulence where they usted to sit. i really would like to try that, that way i can get rid of my ACV and airpump w/ the bracket...there goes a nother 50 lb!!! woo hoo!!!

is there a link for Pineapple racing? i figure i should do a header and the sleeves in one sitting since they are both on the same side of the engine, right in the same area...

anywho, thanks for the input. this is givin me renewed interest in my NA...and i used to think turbo was the only way.

thanks
chris

Samps

here is the link:

http://www.pineappleracing.com/Prod-pr6pi.html

these are best used with the air pump still functioning. You could place the inserts in the motor and leave them open, but you will gain more by leaving them operational.

flubyux2

left operational huh?

for some reason, i was under the impression that they eliminated the need for the acv and pump. but ok. thats cool.

i dont have enough backpressure to operate my ports now. so i have a line tapped into the output of the air pump running to a fish tank valve, and then a line going to the feed port for the 6port sleeves. the fish tank valve bleeds enough pressure off so that the actuators begin to move at 3800, and open up at 4000, its a pretty sweet set up.

i guess i should invest in some Pineapple ports.

does anyone have any before and after impressions of their port install??/

thanks
chris

flubyux2

now wait a second, thanks to Samps, ive found some handy resources.

so just installing the Pineapple sleeves and the Mazdatrix custom header...does this mean i can get deep into the 14s for less that $200???!

damn, and i thought DSM's were cheap to make fast...

thanks

Samps

No NA stock port will go deep into the 14s (w/o NO2). With the header and pineapple sleeves you may see another 10 hp and you may get in the 14s with a good launch. They are good mods for the money, and I recommend both although some think the header is not needed. You have got one strong NA. I am working on a system for the AUX ports now, and I am using two adjustable valves I got from lowes. I need one for the AUX ports and one for the VDI. You do not have the VDI; which makes your times even more impressive.

flubyux2

Thanks bud, i just emaild Mazdatrix to ask them about a Ypipe for their header. i need to run them together since i have a single right now.

btw, do you think 2.25" is too big of an exhaust for my car? Mazdatrix recommended a 2" OD as a max size.

good luck on your set up.

btw, is it worth my time to port match the upper intake to the lower? or is that quite minimal?

if i cant go Deep into the 14s, id at least like to be safely in the 14s, know what i mean? i think i also wanna start running premix to keep my seals in top form.

oh yea, how far has a stock port S4 na gone? high 14s? i think i may have one of the lightest cars too, its an SE w/ VERY few power options.

thanks
chris

Samps

2.25 is not too big. For a single it may even be too small.

Port match is a good thing

Premix is a good thing

You may have the first S4 stock port in the 14s

You do have the lightest 2nd gen

flubyux2

Naawww, get out!! fo sheezy?

ok, so my to-do list:

1. new electric fan (old one seized up)
2. Pineapple ports
3. Header
4. port match intake (if im feeling ambitious)
5. run premix
6. find some 79 octane fuel

am i missing anything?

thanks bro
chris