von

I was just wondering. How can these mitsus go so fast like high 12s with just bolt ons. My friend has a GSX 1st gen with a 16g turbo . says he can go to 18-20 psi and run high 11s and or mid-low 12s. He says his car now is high 12s with just 16g , manifold , wastegate , manuel boost , bov , cut exaust and filter intake. How can these cars go so fast with just a small 14g turbo ( stock ) and ****. Arnt our turboes bigger and on a simulated 2.6ltr engine???

I want to beat him so when I turbo my N/A with the stock garret at 12psi (bigger turbo) on a 2.6 ,,,SHouldnt I at least be able to hang? Give me some pointers without going all out ( stand alone , Intercooler) I already have a mid 14sec N/A with drag radials and 300lbs weight reduction making 160rwp.

BlackRx7

well if you want to beat him when you get a turbo, race from 60 to 120, heavy *** cars!

BlackFC

One word, torque.

Daniel

BlackFC

And to answer your previous question, no the 16g is a very small turbo. The exhaust side is MUCH MUCH to small. And the stock turbo is a 14B (90 - 94), and a couple people have made it to the 11's on that.

Daniel

rico05

4 Words = All Whell Drive Launch

von

Well if its so small how can it haul so much ***. Is thier a downside to these mitsuz?

von

And how can they boost so high? because their smaller? Are they faster than a S5 t11 mod for mod?

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

High boost != good boost.

You can spin a stock S4 to 30 PSI (and beyond...) but will it be efficient? No!

Use the S4 or S5 turbo, or go with a TO4. Don't waste time putting turbos from other cars on.

BlackFC

You are making a common mistake. PSI doesn't mean much when transfered from car to car, turbo to turbo or even the same car with different porting or cams ect. PSI can vary, the number you are looking for is CFM, HOW MUCH AIR are they flowing, I can take a volume of 3.0L and pressize it to 20psi and a 2.0L volume and pressurize it to 20psi, but there will be more air in the 3.0L.

DSM's are fast on a drag strip for a couple reasons:

#1 Torque, a DSM, or most any piston engine is going to out torque a 13B, the way the rotary moves creates very little mechanical advantage to make torque.

#2 as Rico said AWD launch, where as with a 250hp TII you are boiling the tires and getting a 2.1 - 2.2 60' times on street radials most 16G DSM's can run short times of under 1.7sec, and thats the difference between a 13sec run and a mid 12sec run.


Now we get to Aaron, i doubt you could get a S5 turbo to pump out 30psi into a 13B, hell most cant even hold over 11 or 12 to redline in a stock TII motor with the intake/exhaust open. To say hi boost isnt good boost isn't true either, it matters once again between CFM, shaft RPM, ect ect ect. The 20g with a 7cm exhaust housing and a TD06 exhaust wheel on a 4g63 really doesnt get into its sweet spot until about 20psi, and its alive and kicking till atleast 27psi. However, that is on a DSM, put that turbo (with properly sized exhaust housing) onto an RX7 and you will be pushing much less boost, but flowing the same air.

So in short, no the 16G probably wouldnt be a very good setup for a RX7, even the GReddy 20G has been rumored to be a little small, you would atleast have to change the exhaust housing (DSM is a 7cm while the GReddy 20G employs a 17 to 18cm housing). Now 2 16g's...or 18g's...


To beat him, race him on the highway, AWD DSM's have pretty bad gearing for the highway and really fall off after 3rd, but cams and a real turbo will fix that (16g is basically a stock upgrade) my 20G DSM would keep pace with bikes and single turbo supras on the highway on racegas and about 29psi.

Good Luck.

von

OMG 29psi? Rx7s with 27psi are like high 8s or less. Anyways I wasnt planing on the mitsu swap. Just info so I know wich turbo is superior...I will be doing the turbo swap and was just wondering if the stock t11 at 12psi would be good enoughf to beat a 16g mitsu at 18psi.

Is their a link were I can learn about turbo,s specifically rx7 turbos and flow?

dr0x

AWD.

Bridgeported

As far as drag cars are concerned, AWD is only beneficial for the launch. After the launch is done and traction is in place, the AWD actually hinders your acceleration due to the extra friction and extra weight.

von

Actually I thought at a certain HP level ( drag ) RWD cars will get better 60foot because of the squating effect. Street cars is where AWD is best am I right? Even then if their so fast how come we dont see more tearing it up??? Didnt an rx7 just waste a 750rwp VR4 in that video a couple weeks ago? Seems like they just run jout of steem once they get up thier. Could just be me thou

BlackFC

VR4's weigh about 4000lbs, and just never seem to be as fast as they should be. Like I said, if the race was on the highway the RX7 had a GREAT advantage with weight and gearing. John Shepard doesn't seem to be having to much trouble dispatching Ari in his AWD either, neither of them usually run away with a race.

AWD is a hinderance after about 2nd gear, most FWD or RWD cars pushing over 400hp will have traction issues on street radials atleast till 2nd gear. RWD cars can cut 60's down into the 1.3 range BUT this take lots of suspension and chassis tuning, you arent gonna bolt slicks on your RWD car and start hitting sub 1.5sec short times, however bolt a set of 4 drag radials or even nice sticky radials on an AWD and you are there. And where you see the big difference in the sheer amount of traction, this is with NO burnout so the tires are still cold as compared to a RWD car who can heat them up before he goes.

Daniel

capsoval

Your friends mitsu. is going to blow, and then you can pass him. A Stock bottom end on a 1st gen will not hold that much boost. If he's really running that much then he's stupid. There is a 1st gen mitsu in Ceres, CA that has run up to 30 psi on a dyno to see the numbers it would make, but only runs on the road and track running low 20's and is motor is yoked. I mean Chromoly everything. Oh yeah and evey time I go to the machine shop in Ceres Its always there getting a new motor cause its blow up. On like number Five now.

BlackFC

You sir are a retard and have entirely no clue what you are talking about. The 90 - 91 DSM motor is the STRONGEST of all of them, and can easily hold 500whp if tuned properly. The later small rod motors will make 400 to the wheels. Boost pressure itself doesn't have much to do with snapping rods or breaking anything else in the bottom end. You may want to check and see if you know what the hell you are talking about before you open you mouth next time, remember:

It's better to be thought an idiot, then to speak and have all doubts confirmed.


And remember, god loves stupid people too, cause someones got to.

FC Drifter

AWD DSMs can be fast cars. real fast. there are a few here where i live, including BlackFCs old car. with the right setups, they can tear up pretty much anything on the street. they do have their downsides though. the interstate is where they would be at a disadvantage. the weight of AWD hurts them at highway speeds. also those big 20g turbos and stuff can be a bit on the laggy side and are only efficient at high boost levels. they are pretty mean cars, not a car i would own, but mean cars none the less.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Sure you can get 30PSI out of a S4/S5 turbo. I've seen it. I never said it was good for the turbo, I just said it could be done. But of course, you will be so inefficient it won't matter and you'll be making less power then at 12PSI.

BlackFC

30psi for a fraction of a second, not across a 4000rpm powerband.

jon88se

The 16G is a bigger turbo than the 14B...it is also a better turbo in every sense. It flows a lot more CFM's, can make a great deal more power and yet spool up much like stock and is a bolt on upgrade from Mitsu. The early '89-94 DSM motors are strongest as mentioned earlier. DSM crapped out on the later cars w/ very poor head design and if I'm not mistaken a smaller intercooler as well. When most 2nd gen DSM's blow they rebuild them w/ a first gen motor and head...a first gen DSM w/ a 16G, upgraded fuel pump and 550cc injectors is a killer on the street and a simple car to build and live with, take it from me...I own one she'll be running again in a few weeks w/ an EVO front mount IC, 18G and I'm gonna fab some IC piping.

Jon

'88 RX-7 (www.fc3s.org car o the month) "turns"
'92 GVR4 # 92/1000 "goes"

capsoval

Black Fc,
Then why are you speaking? Every time I see that hunk of **** at the shop getting a new motor I will think of you and the stupidity that you have now shared with us all. I would even bet that everyone on this site now feels dumb'r reading your post. I just can't wait to go to that shop again......just so I can smile and laugh.

Rotorific

iTrader: (1)

I like the 20G turbos, ive seen them power DSMs into the low 12s but thats not to say it would be that great on an RX-7. TO4 is the way to go for an RX-7 -Gabe

von

Lets get something streight here. I never said that I wanted to swap that small POS turbo on my car in the first place. So far three people have spoke like I have said that...

Another thing. Stop flaming EVERYONE!!! I would never trade my car for a DSM just because their puny turbos can boost 18psi. I dont like the looks and the interior is only decent. THey probly dont handle nearly as well. Besides my rx7 can get into the 12s im sure with WAY less boost on my conversion...

von

By the way...Is thier a site that teaches about turbos? I dont know what a T04 is or how much it costs. Im sure a stock turbo with small compressor upgrade will be way better HP/Doller than a T04...First its get a turbo know its get a T04. Im doing my own thing, forget you guys.

rx7_ragtop

And YOU sir, are breaking the rules. NO FLAMES, WARNING #1

Brad