rx7_ragtop

NO FLAMES.

Brad

turbogarrett

iTrader: (1)

i think he's leaving out a few mods or he's full of ****. there is no way a dsm will run that fast with a stock intercooler , stock injectors, some type of fuel management etc. i think he watches fast and the furious a little too much. ask him for a timeslip.

Rotorific

iTrader: (1)

If he is leaving out mods its little 5 dollar mods you do yourself just like an RX-7. First gen DSMs are the fastest and most reliable of the motors mitusbishi has produced and YES they are high 12 second cars with only the mods that VON described. Maybe an SAFC or AVCR but anything else is unessecary.
IMO the 4G63 and the 13bt are two of the easiest and cheapest motors to mod and make a 13 or 12 second car. -Gabe

von

Ok great. Now can I do high 12s without intercooler? Is it possible?

turbogarrett

iTrader: (1)

ok rotorific, i've had a dsm, show me one that can run high 11's with stock injectors and stock intercooler. if you can run a high 12 i'd be amazed. $5 mods won't take you that far.

usmcjsy

iTrader: (1)

Whoop Whoop DSM whatever. You wanna run 12s go buy new stock Mustang Cobra they run 12s on 8lbs of boost. I was reading Mustangs and Fast Fords mag and a smaller pulley on the Super Charger upgraded exhaust and a chip upgrade that changed the fuel curve pushed them into the 11s. I am starting to get tired of all this Jap Crap and DSM sucks ***. Guess what a forced induction V8 with dual overhead cams and 4 valves per cylinder just evened the score back up. Actually more than evened it up. This just put everything back to square one. Now its like taking a N/A V8 against a N/A 4 cyl and so on.
Ya it was fun pumping a crap load of boost through four cylinders with 4 valve per cylinder and dual overhead cams and racing low tech non forced induction 8s but the partys over. Now they have the same technology plus more cubes plus boost. GOD BLESS AMERICA they finally came through. Hey history repeats itslef. Mitsubishi built the famous Japanese fighter plane the Zero, then America built an awnswer to that called the P-52 Mustang LOL!!! Dont get me wrong I love my RX7 and the rotaries because they are different but at the same time I am gonna love wwatching the Mitsus fight for their life at the track against stock Cobras LOL. This should flame everyone up. Oh well I hate those cheap *** dime a dozen mitzus anyway. Then again I still saw V8 muscle slap the crap out of the imports anyway everyweekend at the dragstrip. It was so bad the Sport Comapcts had there own quick 8. I figure if this is suppose to be street cars batteling it out let em all compete in the quick 8. You do not get to pick and choose at the stop light grudge match why should you get to at heads up drag racing day at the track?

importboi22

ive seen a dsm run a mid 12 with only 30 dollars.... hacked airbox, MBC , open DP ( gutted i think too not sure ) what people need to understand the TIME = how fast your car leaves the line....... MPH = how fast the car really is as in horsepower

if i remember correctly it was like 12.5@10*?? tell me if that sounds right i know his 60 was 1.6 - 1.7, oh well screw rx7's i bought a honda and i love it ... sorry guys =\

gsracer

ignorance is bliss

gsracer

an 03 cobra is 10x the cost of a dsm.

03 cobras are sweet cars, but give me 30k dollars and it's going to be really, really ugly for the cobra.

jfdmas

start rant:

wow, thats just plain ignorance. The way you are explaining things is basically saying that the good ol usa had to copy forein designs just to get back in the game. Also the only way they can do it is with 4 more cylinders. I will always respect a n/a honda running 12's or even a boosted honda running 11's. And this is all possible with only 3-5k invested. Then you have a fast 4cyl engine thats just as fast if not faster getting twice as good gas mileage, and getting way more respect because its not a blown f/i v8 with copy cat 4 valves percylinder.

end rant:

anyway, good topic because I am doing a tII swap come winter and cant stay stock for too long.

usmcjsy

iTrader: (1)

LOL you guys crack me up. The fastest drag cars still come from the USA side of the house. Say what you will but umm last time I checked the top fuel cars were representing the good ol US of A. I do not recall seeing a four banger beating any of those. So ya when push comes to shove the 4s always lose. There is mustangs running 8s on DOT slicks that are running in the street class without needin AWD. Jap Shmap. Whatever I also believe that currently the quickest Sport Compact is a Focus. Siguel did beat the Focus's best time with his RX7 but it did not count because he eneded up being 50lbs under weight. So haha even the imports are getting beat at there own game.
Like I have RX7 TurboII and these little rice burners are funner than hell to drive...BUT I go to the track around here and see a lot of high 11 to 12 second DSMs Supras and the like but see a lot more 9-10 second mustangs and other V8 cars. I even saw a old oldmobile wagon run a low 10 LOL! So whatever say what you will but next time put down super street and check out Fast Fords and what and Super Chevy. Imports are not all they are cracked up to be. They can surprise a lot of people but when it goes mod for mod and boost for boost I am going with the V8s. Ya a DSM running 28lbs of boost on a huge turbo can run low 11s high 10s. Thats the best I have personally seen anyway and that sucker was gutted. It needs AWD to do it to. Then you have Jon Shepard running 9s in the street class with an AWD gutted highly modified DSM well good for him. I seen a Mustang run 8.6 on DOT slicks with a turbo on a modular V8. So big deal last time I checked Shepard was the fastest in the street class for a DSM. So big deal. I have seen Mustangs on Kazza pulling a straight up wheel stand at the track for probably the first 30 or so feet. I have never seen a import do stuff like that. So anyway keep your eyes closed and pretend the the forced induction V8s with dual overhead cams and 32 valves are slow. Also keep pretending that the market will not be flooded with aftermarket parts for these mustangs to make it easy for the average joe to have wickedly fast drag car. We all know there is no aftermarket for Mustangs LOL.
Here is the info if you wanna look up those ti,es on those Mustangs. Mind you these are not the 32V dual over head cam V8s either. These are ones that people just threw there own turbo set up on and let em buck. These are on DOT slicks.
Willie Figuueras Mustang 8.675@164.14
2000 World Street Nationals

Troy Pierz Mustang 8.621@159.27
2002 Hot Rod Power Festival

Those times look like import outlaw class times. These are for street class times. This is why the local dragstrip seperates the imports from the domestics on heads up drag racing night. They want imports to feel like they belong to.
Beside are you positive the 1st dual overhead cam 4 valve per cylinder engine was a import...? They may have been using that design more but are they the true inventors? So do not say the Americans are copying their technology. Beside I see alot of Jap cars thinking about the V8 strategy. Maybe they figured if you cant beat em join em. Like the Toyota trucks have lot of V8s now, and Lexus and I am sure their is more I am leaving out. Well keep arguing if you want but please back some of what you say up with references. Fastest street class DSM i found was Jon Shepard. Fastest outlaw class was Buscher with a 8 somthing. If you want I will research the fastest outlaw calss Mustang. I say DOWN with DSM cheap *** little piles of crap. The only reason I like the RX& is because of the rotary if I went for piston power it would be solid american muscle.
So you say oh the Mustang is new and the Eclipse is not. Ok put this years fastest stock Version of the Eclipse VS. this years fastest version of the Mustang. Or whats that new DSM crapper I hear about the EVO..? Pit that against the new Cobra and we will see who wins that one. If you wanna upgrade one beyond stock give the other the same upgrade. It will put ya back to square one again. If it makes ya feel better though keep taking gutted DSMs modded to the max and comparing them against wore out Mustangs that the kid is driving that works at the local Taco Bell. Take a 91 or 92 Mustang 5.0 and rune 28lbs of boost through it and see what happens. There is a lot more turbocharged Mustangs them people think out there. I encourage you to pick up a copy of Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords. There is a ton of 80s stangs running 9-10 seconds. They also tell cost to build and your earlier argument of expense you may find out may not be a viable argument. I used to think the same as a lot in here Rice Power all the way. This last year I spent a lot of time at the track and somedays I wish I would have went with a Mustang and slapped a turbo on that. Oh well I love my 7 but I did have a good wake up call as a lot of the imports that show up out there do. The fastest car on the track still had a V8 in it. And guess what it was a single cam 2 valve per cylinder motor in that car. Imagine that. Oh well enough of beating a dead horse I am sure you are good at picking the easy fights on the V8 battle so go beat up on some poor kid who just has enough money to buy a 87 Mustang 5.0 and not do any real mods to it, and race him pushing numerous PSI of boost on your 16 valve dual over head cam AWD. I am sure that will make you feel better. However it will be funny when you first pull up to a slightly modded Cobra with your damn near maxed out DSM and lose . I just wish I could be there to say I told you so. Or better yet I wish I could be the one with the Cobra. Well in 10 years I am sure I will be able to afford one and you will be able to affrod a EVO. At that time we can continue this argument.

cbrock

iTrader: (1)

Cough..cough..John Shepherd...8.76@166..cough cough.

Stock bottom end DSM, 2650 lbs awd, BIG turbo and hitting the gas.

http://www.shepracing.com/

Plain and simple, DSM downside??? Transmissions. Mine blew 6 in one year with a 20g, fmic..etc..etc.

Bob Breach

why was this thread brought back from the dead?must have gotten beat.


50trim,fmic,etc.
http://www.angelfire.com/dragon2/lager/102_0221cd.bmp

usmcjsy

iTrader: (1)

Congrats to Shepard he FINALLY made it into the 8s with a gutted DSM with huge *** turbo and the sorts. Look at the dates of my earlier posts that one Mustang did the run of 8.675 back in 2000. Well good for Ol shepard. I will do some searching around and see what the top end of the Mustang street cars are doing today. As we all know Shepard is at the very top of the DSM street class. And he still ran behind the 2 wheel drive DOT slicks mustang/ which if you look it up is not gutted. Ya the mustangs may have twice as many cylinders but the DSM has twice as many drive wheels. That is there only advantage is there whole shot. By the way what DSM is in the top fuel class? Oh I suppose we do not wanna go there. Hey guess what I have a TV thats made by Mitsubishi and thats probably the best thing they can make. I have a friend with a eclipse and guess what I drove it and it sux. Ya its fast but the car is so sheaply thrown together not very good feedback from the car and those shifter are sloppy as all hell.
I still see know one took up the argument on the new Cobra VS the new Eclipse why not? Well those Mustangs that ran those times from 2000 and 2002 were just regular V8s by design. I cannot wait to see what the new 32v dual overhead cam with forced induction will wind up doing. Anyway we can argue this all day long you will keep worshiping your rice mobils and I the 32v Dual Over Head Cam V-8, with lest not forget yes forced induction . I know a lot of imports are in denial. I was for awhile to, but hey I got over it. Also no other comments on the fastest sport compact being Ford Focus? With of course Siguel and his awsome RX right there with him. So what is the fastest DSM? Oh well probably does not matter. The fact is the fastest DSM is not faster than the fastest domestic, the fastest sport compact, or even the fastest RX7 which is Siguel Racing RX7. So in the end DSMs and their AWD is only good for some high school kids and people who do not know how to launch a rwd. I will give ya this though the fastest DSM is faster than my car, and I am sure its faster than yours. So far I just have not seen anything really come from those guys that impresses me. Sorry but this whols argument between us all is just opinion. The time slips just tell us who is faster.

usmcjsy

iTrader: (1)

http://www.fasteststreetcar.com/2003/event2/results.htms Check this out

gsracer

Troll much?

Bebesito21

Doesnt paul efantis run 8's on DOT approved radials in a supra.....full enterior.....single turbo oh and two less cylinders?

usmcjsy

iTrader: (1)

You guys are right I am so sorry. Domestic V8s are slow my mistake. Supras and the such come and mop up the drag strip all the time. Oh well I currently don't have a domestic car anyway I have a TurboII. So I don't know why I am trying to defend the domestics. Possibly just for arguments sake. Anyhow my URL does not come up but please visit fasteststreetcars.com These cars are not gutted, not imported and are in in the high 7s. There is even an old station wagon in there pulling 10s LOL. As far as you engine size theory the Supras are a 3 liter the new Stangs are a 4.6L Supras and RX7s often run neck and neck and there again is difference of 1.7 liters. Yet nobody brings that up. Ya the RX7 is a rotary so what. That is a lame excuse I hear a lot. I always hear ya but thats a rotary. So what nobody is stopping any other manufacturer from building one. Just like nobody is stopping mitsubishi form building a V8. Nobody is stopping ford from building a AWD Mustang. Oh and bebesito you say the Supra is running 8s on a single turbo like that is downgrade from the twin setup. Sorry but I am sure that thing is freakin huge single. So what that Supra is still not the fastest street car. Please checkout Tampabay motorsports.com or the november 2003 issue of Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords. There is 93 GT with a 410C.I N/A on the bottle running 8.5@167. It says in the article that this car often cruises the local streets and sports a legit license plate. That has NO TURBO...NO FORCED INDUCTION!!! It does have a power adder of 2 more cylinders than your Stupra and the blue bottle. Man imagine a car in the 8s without a turbo. Unbelivable. Even Mazdatrix drag car is running a ford 9" and C4 tranny LOL. But whatever you boys go play Fast and the Furious on the street and leave the real drag racing to the Domestic Muscle! Just think these Mustangs I have talked about so far are SOHC 16V engines. I cannot wait to start seeing the full potential of these new motors. So what do you all think of the new GT-40? Ya that cars sux to.

cbrock

iTrader: (1)

I like the domestics all the same. The original thread was about DSM's and 16g's. If you read all through Johns site, it talks about his first car (red one) that went 11.81's on a 16g. His purple car isn't really gutted...or at least, the last time I saw it. Still has the stock dash, gauges and front door panels. He pulled out the pass seat and some of the rear plastic trim to make room for the cage. I still consider that pretty full interior + it's all steel cept for the hood. Really, The talons really don't 60ft any different from RWD cars with bars and slicks. John runs drag radials cuz if he were to hook too hard, it would blow apart drivetrain stuff. The key to Johns car isn't exactly his ET, but look at all that MPH...that's some serious power he's putting to the ground. That out runs my buddies rail car...now come on, have some respect

So maybe the imports aren't the fastest around, but you know what? They're getting faster and faster and it makes it a challenge. The RWD V8 thing has been done over and over again. Actually, when I sit back and think about it, my full size olds has more potential for less $$$ than my T2. Just pick the V8, slap a PG or TH 400 (have an art carr TH350 right now) behind it, tie the chassis together (maybe back half ) a little better and hope that the 8.5" 10 bolt holds and I'll have a wheel standing oldsmobile.

Don't even get me started on Fords. Took forced induction to finally outrun a camaro.

BTW, nitrous is a power adder and would be in the same book with a super charger or a turbo.

usmcjsy

iTrader: (1)

Ya where is Camaros today...? Your right though about Shepards cars it is fast and the imports can provide a challenge. Like I said I love my T2 it is more responsive than any Mustang. I just had to post that stuff about Mustangs for the simple fact all my friends have DSMs and it gets old listening to how "Awsome" they are. So I figured why not pit against the Mustang in my eyes that is the domestic DSM. They are all over and everyone is building them up and there is a overkill of aftermarket options for them. They are both good straightliners and really do not handle all that great. This is why I like the RX7 it is different like you say. It has the rotary. The DSM has pistons not different enough for me to leave the domestic world of V8s. Your also right nitrous is a power adder. I see alot of imports run both N20 and a turbo to to get some of these times as low as they have gotten. Thats why I kind of favor the Mazdatrix 3 rotor drag car. No turbo just N20. It seems technology has taken a lot of skill out of the "sport" of drag racing. Everyone these days including Ford now just slaps on forced induction and some N20 and goes for it. Shepards time on the 16G is his most impressive run. As I have friend who has a 16G on his Eclipse who can only manage a 13.8. Which is not bad, but whatever. I know what the original thread was about but hey its a old thread I found while looking for intercooler piping. I just hate to come to the beloved RX7 site and still have to read and listen to more DSM talk. THose things are everywhere and are probably the most common unoriginal way to go in the import world, Honda is probably right there with em. DSM people like my friends think Shepard and Buscher are gods. I guess when is all you wanna look at is DSMs they probably are. Lets just not forget there is more than DSM and that there is cars faster than DSMs at every level. Well I am gonna quit posting on this thread and focus on getting my FMIC set up in my RX like I was working on when running into this thread. If it were up to me, we would only be allowed to talk RXs on this website.

cbrock

iTrader: (1)

I can't remember if John’s original red car was Buschur’s old car or if the purple one was. I know when he sold the red one, it was running consistent 10's on a 20g. Mine would only run 11.8's on a 20g...so something was really right with his old setup.

Like you said, straight aways...the dsm's greatest advantage and Achilles heel is the AWD. Soooo many parts stuffed into a little package, 2x or 3x the stock HP and stuff is bound to break and there isn't really an upgrade for them. At least for all of us RWD guys, we can get that gear set from Guru motor sports to convert our box to a dog box and handle, I believe, 600ft-lbs. Or we can adapt any aftermarket trans available with an appropriate bell housing. That's ultimately why I sold my DSM.

sherloc123

i dont wanna sound like a jerk or any thing, but it doesnt matter what you boost with a 20g cause its 9 pounds stock with a 20g that flows 600+ cfm vs a 14b that flows 400-450 at 15 pounds. the 20g will win. ive raced one before with a 20g. a 92 gsx witha 20g vs my 90 gst with a 14b. me at 15 ps and him at 9. i even had the less rotating mass and he still beat me. so you guys can think what you want with massive amounts of psi but cfm is what does it

cbrock

iTrader: (1)

yup, bigger turbo flows more. Though the smaller turbo might hit first and jump off the line with the larger turbo car coming on with full afterburners.

JagdStealth

What Mustang is in Top Fuel?

last time I checked, they were all running HEMIs and a Top Fuel car still bears no semblance or shares any parts with a Mustang :p

AWD sucks once you're on the highway, I know...I had one.

usmcjsy

iTrader: (1)

Sorry did not mean to include Mustangs with the Top Fuel cars. Anyway given the choice faster or not I like my 7. I have found out speed is not everything. In high school I looked at speed alone. However I have learned to appreciate a cars ability to corner and to stop. I also appreciate the feedback a car gives me. For the money in my opinion the RX is unbeatable in all the above. The transmission feels tight with no slop. The car over all is like it was tailor made for me. Anyway I hope the rest of you enjoy your RXs as much as I enjoy mine. It still seems to attract a small crowd at the track even though it is far from the fastest thing out there. There are those who are curious about the roatary and those who want one. Here in North Dakota the RX7 is extemly rare. I have only seen one FD at the track and my TurboII I have seen maybe 2 N/A RX7s out there. I am still building it for this next year. I would really like to see 12's out of it. I feel that is probably the fastest "I" could acheive and still maintain some sort of reliability. I am thinking of the RB springs and Tokiko shocks here in the near future to enhance its handling. Well I apologize for my rudness in earlier posts. I know this thread had nothing to do with my ramblings. It just lit a fuse as I said this place is crawling with DSMs and it just gets old somtimes. I am sure they are good cars there is just so many of em and I wanted to be different. It kinda sucks being different because no one wants to talk RX7s or roatarys they all wanna talk DSM. Oh well later.