Tranny
02-19-07, 08:39 PM
#26
Rotary Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Ramy-
Obviously I am just building my 20B. Researched it for the 6 years I have had my 7. 4 13B motors later.... Always knew it was what I wanted to do. The last 2 years I have also been researching the 4 rotor. When it comes to rare, it raises my interest.
I know you could have a 20B if you wanted, I wonder why you dont.
I have talked plenty with everyone from pinneaple, pettit, rx7 specialties, right to Rohan down under. Research has never been a problem for me.
I dont think it is fun unless your pushing the limit. That does not mean I take this project lightly by any stretch, but I do enjoy the process, even when it means a rebuild. Maybe I need to learn by breaking one of these. Hopefully not.
My perspective on the parts for 20Bs is that some people are producing parts that will make it easier to do the swap. The question remains, will there be engines left to use as these parts hit the market? I do not know, I have watched the price of a 20B core, and 13B new housings rise, thats for sure.
Comparing the FD scene to Sti WRX and 350 crowds I do not agree with. There will always be people interested in the newer cars. I see RX7s as much more of a cult following, and I do not think it will ever die, no matter how stupid it continues to be to modify and break these engines. On the other hand, there are less cars as more time passes, so maybe that comes into play. The S2000 is beggining to fall below the 15000 mark, which as you know is the essential marker line for people who want to buy a modifiable car. Many would argue that platform is much more forgiving.
T56 seems like the way to go, when it is in fact ready.
Obviously I am just building my 20B. Researched it for the 6 years I have had my 7. 4 13B motors later.... Always knew it was what I wanted to do. The last 2 years I have also been researching the 4 rotor. When it comes to rare, it raises my interest.
I know you could have a 20B if you wanted, I wonder why you dont.
I have talked plenty with everyone from pinneaple, pettit, rx7 specialties, right to Rohan down under. Research has never been a problem for me.
I dont think it is fun unless your pushing the limit. That does not mean I take this project lightly by any stretch, but I do enjoy the process, even when it means a rebuild. Maybe I need to learn by breaking one of these. Hopefully not.
My perspective on the parts for 20Bs is that some people are producing parts that will make it easier to do the swap. The question remains, will there be engines left to use as these parts hit the market? I do not know, I have watched the price of a 20B core, and 13B new housings rise, thats for sure.
Comparing the FD scene to Sti WRX and 350 crowds I do not agree with. There will always be people interested in the newer cars. I see RX7s as much more of a cult following, and I do not think it will ever die, no matter how stupid it continues to be to modify and break these engines. On the other hand, there are less cars as more time passes, so maybe that comes into play. The S2000 is beggining to fall below the 15000 mark, which as you know is the essential marker line for people who want to buy a modifiable car. Many would argue that platform is much more forgiving.
T56 seems like the way to go, when it is in fact ready.
02-19-07, 09:43 PM
#27
Yeah, t56 is what I always planned on too. If you have to rebuld it anyway, you can get one with a blown synchro on ebay for like 5-700 bucks, thats not too bad a deal. Then drop 5k in it to make it work, still not bad for what you get.
Ramy i dunno if you noticed but I already have a running 20B car, so im not just making this up for the distant future or anything. Course, I also pushed the 13B till it split apart (blew a dowel pin) so I dont have a perfect track record so far.... as far as doing it myself, ive built plenty of 13bs and plenty of piston motors, I dont see how the 3 rotor can be that much harder. I hate to sound like a dick, but i did more with the 2 rotor than I was told was possible without professional help, and I built the 20B car for half what I was told was the minimum price, and I think that while limits are a good thing to keep in mind, you still have to aim for high goals. If you cant reach them with the setup you have, well when it blows its just an excuse to do better.
anyway mirabile i'll quit f*cking up your thread now.
Ramy i dunno if you noticed but I already have a running 20B car, so im not just making this up for the distant future or anything. Course, I also pushed the 13B till it split apart (blew a dowel pin) so I dont have a perfect track record so far.... as far as doing it myself, ive built plenty of 13bs and plenty of piston motors, I dont see how the 3 rotor can be that much harder. I hate to sound like a dick, but i did more with the 2 rotor than I was told was possible without professional help, and I built the 20B car for half what I was told was the minimum price, and I think that while limits are a good thing to keep in mind, you still have to aim for high goals. If you cant reach them with the setup you have, well when it blows its just an excuse to do better.
anyway mirabile i'll quit f*cking up your thread now.
02-20-07, 06:06 PM
#29
Safety Guy
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Originally Posted by patman
Yeah, t56 is what I always planned on too. If you have to rebuld it anyway, you can get one with a blown synchro on ebay for like 5-700 bucks, thats not too bad a deal. Then drop 5k in it to make it work, still not bad for what you get.
The other things I was looking at was a sequential shifter (think Rally), but not the paddle shifter, just the stick up/down and that was $10K (too much for me). If you get the racing gear box without the sequential shifter (think full racing gears, Mg composite case, etc), that was $5K and change.
So...from what I've seen, to do custom titanium hardened gears and some practical upgrades, a T-56 with "practical" bells is about $3K extra in addition to the cost of whatever core you find.
That's the path I'm heading down anyhow
02-20-07, 06:59 PM
#30
Rotary Enthusiast
Originally Posted by patman
Course, I also pushed the 13B till it split apart (blew a dowel pin) so I dont have a perfect track record so far.... as far as doing it myself, ive built plenty of 13bs and plenty of piston motors, I dont see how the 3 rotor can be that much harder. I hate to sound like a dick, but i did more with the 2 rotor than I was told was possible without professional help, and I built the 20B car for half what I was told was the minimum price, and I think that while limits are a good thing to keep in mind, you still have to aim for high goals. If you cant reach them with the setup you have, well when it blows its just an excuse to do better.
All freakyness aside , i also did built many 13B`s , and up untill recently i built my very first 20B at i will tell you , it is different , there are some slight differances that did make me tear the engine apart at least 3 times before i could assemble it properly and even so , sometimes i scratch my head thinking if i did it right , i guess time will tell.
And just for the record , having a not so perfect track record is a good thing ,you have to see the bad in order to know what the good is right?!
And also ,thats the right attitude to have , if it blows up : make it better,make it stronger ,put a larger turbo on it and go for it , might be a "Maverick" way of thinking , but thats how i`ve done it for a long time and i wouldn`t of been able to accomplish waht i have today!
02-20-07, 07:33 PM
#31
Originally Posted by Turbo 3
From the quotes I've seen it doesn't cost $5K to rebuild a T-56. Maybe if you got every bell and whistle there is on the planet, with a cooler, etc, then I could see that kind of cost.
The other things I was looking at was a sequential shifter (think Rally), but not the paddle shifter, just the stick up/down and that was $10K (too much for me). If you get the racing gear box without the sequential shifter (think full racing gears, Mg composite case, etc), that was $5K and change.
So...from what I've seen, to do custom titanium hardened gears and some practical upgrades, a T-56 with "practical" bells is about $3K extra in addition to the cost of whatever core you find.
That's the path I'm heading down anyhow
The other things I was looking at was a sequential shifter (think Rally), but not the paddle shifter, just the stick up/down and that was $10K (too much for me). If you get the racing gear box without the sequential shifter (think full racing gears, Mg composite case, etc), that was $5K and change.
So...from what I've seen, to do custom titanium hardened gears and some practical upgrades, a T-56 with "practical" bells is about $3K extra in addition to the cost of whatever core you find.
That's the path I'm heading down anyhow
cool, i hadnt looked into it that deeply. So figure if you throw in a bellhousing and tilton twin disc, your up to 4k, and the whole swap is still under 5 gs. not bad at all.
haha felix i have a feeling theres more than us two out there in the same boat...
02-20-07, 07:38 PM
#32
Originally Posted by patman
cool, i hadnt looked into it that deeply. So figure if you throw in a bellhousing and tilton twin disc, your up to 4k, and the whole swap is still under 5 gs. not bad at all.
~Ramy
02-20-07, 08:05 PM
#34
Originally Posted by 20B 3rd Gen
What about the dog gears that Acosta's sell to go inside the stock gearbox it sells for $4000 and is rated @ 1250 lbft of torque
~Ramy
02-20-07, 08:37 PM
#35
Originally Posted by FDNewbie
A fully built T-56 is about $4K. With all the custom parts you'll need (adapter plate/bellhousing/TO bearing/etc) you're looking at $5K. A Tilton Triple Plate is $4.5K IIRC. But a REBUILD on a T-56 is NOT that expensive (prob between 1 - 2 grand), and replacing the face on the carbon Tilton is pretty cheap too (so you're paying a high price up front for cheap maintenance down the road).
~Ramy
~Ramy
rebuild kits for t56 go for like 200 bucks on ebay, but I would be putting hardened gears and steel shift forks and etc in there, so i figure thats a decent chunk of change....
02-20-07, 09:40 PM
#39
Originally Posted by FDNewbie
Ah. I'm talking about the top of line custom Tilton triple plate carbon fiber, w/ custom spline input to mate to a T-56.
the thing about the race clutches is, the parts are all interchangeable. It doesnt cost any more to get a 7.25" clutch for a T56 input spline than it does for any other. It costs about $200 to have your flywheel modified to accept a 7.25" clutch, and around the same for a hydraulic TOB setup, but after that you can run any setup you want. I was going to do all that when i first built my car up, so that when i did get the T56 all I would have to do was buy 2 discs, but I ran out of time and money, so I just got a crazy stiff pressure plate (800% of stock) and am saving the clutch and tranny job for all at one time. I think better axles and such might be first tho, I just upgraded tires and suspension and I dont see them lasting too long...
02-20-07, 11:20 PM
#40
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Jerico
7's Only is installing Jerico in their race cars. They have adapters, etc.
http://www.sevensonly.com/
We know that the Jerico is good for 750 hp @ 7800 rpm for 500 miles at Daytona in Nascar.
http://www.jericoperformance.com/jerico.html
Jerico adapters also available from JW
http://www.racewithjw.com/
http://www.sevensonly.com/
We know that the Jerico is good for 750 hp @ 7800 rpm for 500 miles at Daytona in Nascar.
http://www.jericoperformance.com/jerico.html
Jerico adapters also available from JW
http://www.racewithjw.com/
02-20-07, 11:28 PM
#41
rikgray, thanks for the link. I wanted to go w/ a Jerico, but it doesn't even come CLOSE to fitting. You have to gut soo much, plus (the most important part IMO) they do NOT have a 5-speed (or 6-speed for that matter) w/ an internal shifter, which means that you actually have to make a tunnel for a custom shifter that ends up sitting much like the e-brake but on the driver's side. And you'll prob have to move your driver seat over to the left a bit too to make clearance for that shifter. Not exactly the route I have in mind. https://www.rx7club.com/20b-forum-95/jerico-5-speed-20b-155219/
~Ramy
~Ramy
02-21-07, 10:45 AM
#42
Jerico does make a 5-speed with an internal shift rail.
Another option for the guys looking into a T-56 is the faceplating option available from Liberty Gears. Essentially this converts gears 1-4 to a dog ring engagement type and leaves 5-6 gears stock. I know someone running this in a 700+ LSx engine stuffed into a 240z and he has no problems.
Another option for the guys looking into a T-56 is the faceplating option available from Liberty Gears. Essentially this converts gears 1-4 to a dog ring engagement type and leaves 5-6 gears stock. I know someone running this in a 700+ LSx engine stuffed into a 240z and he has no problems.
02-21-07, 11:14 PM
#43
Originally Posted by RX-Heven
Jerico does make a 5-speed with an internal shift rail.
~Ramy
02-22-07, 01:43 PM
#45
Originally Posted by mirabile
Ramy, just make something already damn it. Stop killing dreams.
~Ramy
02-22-07, 08:15 PM
#47
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If you want a tranny to handle all the torque you can handle, get this...
http://www.ppgearbox.com.au/
I got one and it can handle all you can throw at it. As for the stock casing flexing and breaking, thats plain horse ****. 90% of every casing on the market is made the same. Im not going on what other people "say". Im going on experience. Anyone can go on hearsay and rumor. We all know what that adds upto. PPG also offers an output shaft for this same tranny but its not needed unless your drag racing.
http://www.ppgearbox.com.au/
I got one and it can handle all you can throw at it. As for the stock casing flexing and breaking, thats plain horse ****. 90% of every casing on the market is made the same. Im not going on what other people "say". Im going on experience. Anyone can go on hearsay and rumor. We all know what that adds upto. PPG also offers an output shaft for this same tranny but its not needed unless your drag racing.
02-22-07, 11:46 PM
#50
Originally Posted by ErnieT
If you want a tranny to handle all the torque you can handle, get this...
http://www.ppgearbox.com.au/
I got one and it can handle all you can throw at it. As for the stock casing flexing and breaking, thats plain horse ****. 90% of every casing on the market is made the same. Im not going on what other people "say". Im going on experience. Anyone can go on hearsay and rumor. We all know what that adds upto. PPG also offers an output shaft for this same tranny but its not needed unless your drag racing.
http://www.ppgearbox.com.au/
I got one and it can handle all you can throw at it. As for the stock casing flexing and breaking, thats plain horse ****. 90% of every casing on the market is made the same. Im not going on what other people "say". Im going on experience. Anyone can go on hearsay and rumor. We all know what that adds upto. PPG also offers an output shaft for this same tranny but its not needed unless your drag racing.
You just freakin got the thing! lolAnd the "experience" you're speaking is exactly what I speak of. You go to the track how often a year? How many passes do you run? I'm talking about full-flegged professional race teams. Ppl who have been in the rotary before most of us even knew what they were. There's no heresay here. Ask ANY professional racer downunder, as well as several here in the US. They ALL agree that no matter HOW strong the internals are, the case itself WILL flex - because it HAS flexed on people in the past.
Moreover, PPG reuses several original Mazda parts, vs. say the Guru box that is 100% completely new/different parts. I know cuz I've done the research
But I mean hey, it's cool, I'm not gonna get into a fight about it. I just think it's ironic that you take the word of one-sided salesmen pitching their product - on something they've NEVER tested mind you, because they JUST made the new output shaft for the FIRST TIME EVER - over the tried and true experience of professional racers who are out to sell NOTHING. Plus, I've been warned about the case flex MULTIPLE times from VARIOUS sources. Makes me wonder...
Originally Posted by mirabile
**** and earnie comes out of right field with a great new idea
Originally Posted by patman
looks ok, except for the $7500 price tag
~Ramy