GtoRx7

iTrader: (5)

I am going to be making a custom oil pump for my 3-rotor. The reason is the the stock oil pump is too small for high rpm use, or very high horsepower (past 8,000 rpm)/500hp), which is caused by lack of volume. One option is a dry sump system, but is very costly. So I thought of a more cost effective method, which I would have a new oil pump housing machined that is longer than the factory pump, and use "3-rotors" , as the stock one is a two rotor, both 17.5mm width. So, with three rotors, the volume would be increased by appox. 50%. I then would have a custom gear machined, so the pump runs like stock on a factory chain. The one problem is front cover clearance, and may need to be cut out a small square, and welded for extra clearance.

So check the quick picture I made to get the point across, if anyone wants one for a high output 13B, or a 20B, let me know, before I have mine made, so I can cut the cost, and benefit more people. As I think its kinda a breakthrough idea for many.

t-von

iTrader: (8)

Why not just go with a higher pressure regulator (like what's in the Fd)?

Falcoms

pressure and flow are two different things. If you can't flow enough at low rpm's, you don't get any pressure. Hence why you need a high volume pump for high-flow eccentric shaft jets, the ammount of volume you are flowing and the ammount the pump can flow at a given rpm are different, hence why you can't get full pressure until, say, 4,000+ rpm on a stock n/a pump with mazda racing oil jets, it just can't flow enough.

This looks like a good idea on paper, but honestly, I don't know if it'd work out how you want it to, being that it just has too many variables to contend with, such as flex, space, drive ability (to work it you will be using more hp from the crank to run it and therefore stressing the oil pump drive gear), etc.

If you can get it to work, go for it, but honestly, unless the price is too good to pass up, I'd rather run an external dry sump oil pump system. Not shooting you down or anything, but just trying to help you with constructive criticism. Good luck!

onefastrx7turbo

iTrader: (5)

any price range estimate?

now

iTrader: (1)

high-flow eccentric shaft jets are for cooling the rotors
would be easier to ceramic tbc the rotor faces to reduce heat soak into the rotor
and not do the oil jet mod keeping the oil pressure up?
I did the tbc on my supercharges rx2 rotors, made a big difference in oil temp.
and as a bonus it seems to be getting better fuel mileage.
matt

shawnscaggs3

I would be very interested

CCarlisi

Also interested. Good idea.

GtoRx7

iTrader: (5)

Well, the problem is mostly in the 3 rotor, where the extra rotor's worth of volume is not being compensated for, so oil pressure drops off at high rpm, even with all the stock jets, and a higher oil press reg. In a two rotor, this would be good for guys pushing 450rwhp and above, to help aid in rotor cooling. If its a road race car, I bet even a 300rwhp car could put it to good use.

Definitely dont quote me on this, but it would most likely be in the $300-450 range

rarson

{QUOTE=now]high-flow eccentric shaft jets are for cooling the rotors
would be easier to ceramic tbc the rotor faces to reduce heat soak into the rotor
and not do the oil jet mod keeping the oil pressure up?
I did the tbc on my supercharges rx2 rotors, made a big difference in oil temp.
and as a bonus it seems to be getting better fuel mileage.[/quote]

Yeah, I think coating is a pre-requisite for most engine builds as it can reduce a lot of heat load on different engine systems. It only makes sense to me to coat the engine before increasing other heat removal system capacities.

If it works, then that's a great price (IMO) for the mod. I'd buy one, if I had a 20B.

Falcoms

Good question for you: with the extra depth of the 3rd oil pump rotor, where is the extra length of the pump going to go and how is it going to be compensated for in the oil pump drive gear design?

now

iTrader: (1)

not to mention that an extension on the front cover i believe runs into the belt path.
I am not even sure that an extra rotor will add volume should be looking at wider and larger di.
over extra bits.
just my 2 cents.
matt

crispeed

An alternative is to do what they called a 'wet sump system'.
Basically you buy an external oil pump which most of the times is the pressure section from a dry sump setup.
You can take it a step further and I've seen this set up in action and that is to use the factory pump to fill a remote mounted small external tank and then use the external pump to pull from there. Kind of like a poor man's dry sump setup or a surge tank setup for oil.

t-von

iTrader: (8)

Damn never thought about that one. A surge tank set-up for oil wouldn't be complicated to engineer. Question though, wouldn't the external pump eventually out flow the factory pump causing the sump to run dry over lengthy high rpm moments?

rarson

If it's a centrifugal pump, placing two in series will add pressure to the system while maintaining the flow of one pump. If they are in parallel, then the volume would increase while pressure would stay the same (as if there was only one pump in the system).

Since they're probably positive displacement pumps, the volume of one pump won't be affected by any pressure change from the other pump, so I too am thinking that a mismatch in pump volume would have bad consequences. Maybe I'm just not getting it but a bit of clarification would help.

Poor man's dry sump, I love the idea.