t-von

iTrader: (8)

Too me that's perfect distribution with you in the car. That's the way it should be.

GtoRx7

iTrader: (5)

As usual you are perfectly correct. I WANTED alot more wieght up front for drifting, but got 50/50. I practiced at Kil-kare yesterday for a few hours, The car is awesome so far, but much too little angle. Alot of this is the 50/50 wieght biase. I am going to reinstall the front bumper support, put in corner weights where the ABS used to be, and take out the rear fire extingisher, only for the events. That should help alot. One nice thing SHM21284 mentioned, was that at any time I can throw on some race slicks and tear up mid-ohio for pure gripping, and be in a great class with N/A. So it has many plus sides.

No, the stock torsen isnt reliable under heavy drifting. I am using a KAAZ lsd, that has been slightly modified. Torque is not bad, no where near uncontrollable, it has a perfect balance to the car, I feel like I am driving it, not it driving me.

abefroeman

how hard was the swap? How much time did the fabrication take for the motor mounts, water pump, power steering pump and alternator? how hard do you think it would be to replicate that portion of it??

GtoRx7

iTrader: (5)

Haha, it dosent seem to hard looking back on it, but if you asked me 3 months ago, the answer may have been different. If I recall correctly, the motor mounts maybe cost $20 in metal, and $150 for the band saw to cut them, and took 3 hours to cut out, and 3 hours to weld. The polyurethe rod was $60 from Mc master car, and took 30 minutes to cut to lenght. The water pump was machined, $20 materials, 1 hour labor = $65. Power steering was 1 hour machining, and 1 hour for machined rod, 1 hour welding at Jhon Holts, = $140. Total in conversion was about $435.00 plus my time. I might be making and selling this as a kit soon, have to come up with a price and all, but will let you know.

drifterz

Great car you have! I see you are in Ohio are you going to the runoffs? I would love to see this car in person.

peejay

Wait.. tinman has a freakin SB2 ???

I knew he was doing a V8 swap but a freakin SB2 ??!?!??

Uh, *damn*.

The SB2 isn't a NASCAR engine. It was developed for NASCAR but it was banned before it could race.

Forget opening the ports, you'd need a couple of them fancy exhaust pinwheel thingies, and all of the benefits and drawbacks that you get with 'em. That, or "if you can't beat 'em..."

NOPR

something will ALWAYS be faster. and in this situation, probably 37264337 times more expensive.

IaMtHeRuThLeSs1

^actually no

if you read the thread he says he built the engine himself. short block + 3-4k.

Seriously not that more expensive, if more expensive at all.

GtoRx7

iTrader: (5)

Yeah my car got stomped badly by that second gen, I thought it was a LS1 swap with 400-450 horse, haha man was I wrong. I raced several other cars, one single turbo FD, and was right with his door, I had two people and tires, he was by himself. It was fun to do a freeway battle , and hang with most of the people there, yet be the only non-turbo, non-nitrous, non-race gas vehical. Its a drift/ road race car, and it will stay non-turbo for life!! Man I am tired, need to sleep for tomorrows event.........

GtoRx7

iTrader: (5)

The drift event was very fun at kilkare, I meet alot of nice rx-7 owners! I tried my best to drift well, went to top 10, then I had to leave early. With more practice, it will be fun to get better.

Dragon

Just wanted to ask if your air box cuts down on the intake noise at idle and part throttle... I'm running the same TB's and it sounds like I have a swarm of Locust's under the hood when she's just sipping air. I was also wondering if there is another air filter on the bottom side above the spark plugs... I also like how you mounted the alternator... I'm assuming that you put it there due to TB interference since they sit just enough forward to get in the way...

Thanks for the info in advance...
Chris

GtoRx7

iTrader: (5)

Yes the intake noise was reduced from the air box, although from the outside it sounds very good. Inside the car, I can only mainly hear the exhaust, which is in my opinion, very awesome sounding. It has only the air filter on top, and now it has a air scoop mounted on top, and a hole was cut into the hood, to allow cool air to go into the intake. I decieded not to mount the alternator there for two reasons, 1) once I built the p-port manifold it would have been in the way 2) wanted to keep the CG a little lower

GtoRx7

iTrader: (5)

I FINALLY got the car to go over 7500rpms without breaking up!!! I Changed the fuel pump, fuel filter, octan, ect to no avail. Frustrated I did alot of data logging with the microtech, and saw the problem, The Throttle pump was activating at high rpm due the high amounts of vaccum variance. So I reduced the sensitivity, and BANG, runs like a CHAMP. I will re-dyno next week, and will be the last time until the p-port manifold is finished.

rarson

Alright! Now I want to hear the engine at 9k!

Falcoms

^ Yeah buddy!

GtoRx7

iTrader: (5)

Haha, I was thinking of taking it to 9k once the p-ports will open just once, so get an idea how much it will flow. After that I hopfully will put in ceramic apex seals, and a dry sump this winter or next.....how about 10,500 rpms?? That will be cool sounding!

WsUp_maNig

Nice Job !

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

When you dyno with the aux P-ports open could you PLEASE do some full range runs with P-ports closed and then open before you decide how to actuate them?

They look like they are perfectly sized and placed to be used as a primary port to initiate flow via siphon effect in the comparitively huge sideports. My theory is throttling the P-port as the primary port and actuating the 2ndaries will provide the best power range.

I hope I am right, I set up my primary side ports to siphon my 2ndaries on the bench- but have yet to run it.

GtoRx7

iTrader: (5)

Please explain this siphon effect? Are you refering to high vaccum? I thought p-ports would have much too much overlap, and port timming to run smoothly at low rpms? So any new knowledge will help!

BLUE TII

iTrader: (9)

Please explain this siphon effect?

Siphon effect-

The higher velocity smaller primary port is aimed accross the face of the larger 2ndary port and it creates a vacuum at the 2ndary port.

I discovered this when I bench tested my Pineapple street port by assembling the end housings/rotor/intake manifold and a partial mock-up rotor housing.

In some rotor positions when I flowed air through the primary ports it put a vacuum on the 2ndary ports. It would suck confetti right out of the 2ndary ports.

I ported my own primaries and was able to produce a stonger siphon effect through a much wider range of rotor movement. The primary port I came up with looks different from anything I have seen before.

I haven't run the engine so I have no idea how this will actually work.

I thought p-ports would have much too much overlap, and port timming to run smoothly at low rpms? So any new knowledge will help!

The high velocity from the small port and straight shot into the motor can really help fight the reversion from the extended duration.

Besides, using the small P-port as the primary makes sense as the P-port is always open to its reversion anyways since the compression stroke will bypass the apex seal into the intake stoke. If you actually have the P-port open to flow the velocity of the intake charge will be able to fight this reversion.

The larger side ports CAN be closed off at low rpm as the rotor blocks them from reversion. Closing them does not lower the duration, but it will greatly increase velocity through the primary P-port to fight reversion as all the inake will be drawn through them.

Right now you truly have the worst of both worlds as you have stated- all the reversion of the high duration P-port and none of the benifits.

For example-

the Pineapple streetport I had had smallish primary ports (not cut down far) that had a bit LONGER duration (cut higher on top) than the 2ndary ports. When I asked Rob if that worked because of the higher velocity through the primary he said that was exactly it.

I inadvertently tested this as well; When I first set up my car it idled like a half bridge port motor. I found that my 2ndary throttle plates were cracked open a hair. I fixed that and it idled MUCH smoother despite the fact that the primary ports had more duration.

Another cause of the smoother idle may have been that with the 2ndary plates cracked open the primaries lost some airflow to atomise the fuel for the 720cc primary injectors.

This brings me to another point. If you want to run your small P-port as the primary ports as I believe will work best you will have to install some primary injectors in their runners. Firing the sideports injectors when their throttle plates and idle bypasses are closed off won't get much fuel in the motor.

GtoRx7

iTrader: (5)

Yeah, the cool thing is I saved the stock secondary fuel rail, which is spaced perfectly for the additional injectors. I was going to use 3 440-460cc sized injectors to get good spray. I like this idea you have, and defintitly try all types of configurations. Made me think of things in a new light. GREAT work!!

jamesdean

I love this thread. I was wondering as well as most people. Can you estimate figure of how much this all cost you minus your car ofcourse. I would like an understanding of how this all happened from buying a turbo motor and turning it into stock.

You should also look at doing installs or letting people pay you to help them install or sell a kit of some kind be paperback knowledge or the actual kit.

JD

Snrub

iTrader: (1)

1. I know Mazda did a prototype semi-PP engine where the PPs were the primaries and there were reed valves on the side intakes to close them. This struck me as odd, but perhaps BlueTII's suggestion explains it.

2. If the ports are small, can they have fairly "normal" duration and overlap compared to a "fairly normal" side intake port?

3. Can you give me some ideas as to what the best location is for such a port? What is a good size ~1.25"?

4. Just to be clear, reversion is intake charge going into the exhaust, right?

Thanks.

GtoRx7

iTrader: (5)

I dont know the exact size and loctation for the best results, I just did some research and asking around to settle on the location and size I went with. If you ever need some housings made with small p-ports my machinist will do them for $275 per housing, very great work. I will find out if they work soon, just been busy going to practice and events, but soon they will function!! MuHAHAHAaaaaa...........

GtoRx7

iTrader: (5)

I will perform any 20B swap, for customers. So far, I think I am the only one to offer a swap with stock placement and subframe. I also can make a "drop in" kit and sell that as well. The kit will be about $1,600 and gives you all you need to install a 20b in a FD with stock subframe.( Certain items need to be sent in to me, and I will send back modified.) I have a shop here in Ohio, so contact me if you need work done.