I got one!
06-10-03, 01:52 PM
#1
I got one!
I've been following a trail of clues left by a 20B from Japan to here since last year. It finally got here a month ago and I just got it yesterday. It's from the first production run, number 756. It had low compression, according to the importer when he tested it. Something like 25PSI on all three. Rotor #2 had the best sounding pfffts consistantly out of the Leading plug holes. A friend and I removed the turbos (very time consuming, and snapped two studs, d'oh!) and when I reached into the restrictive exhaust ports, only the middle rotor's apex seals would barely move. Front and rear are totally carboned up. It's MMO time! 
I noticed in a picture of now's 20B ****, that at least one of his studs was missing or broken. Rob's 4 door HB Cosmo broke a stud or two during some spirited driving at the track. Is it common? Why didn't mazda use stainless steel studs like on T2 engines and stuff? The nuts are SS, but they have a funny crimped section that grips the threads. The front rotor looked like it was leaking past the gasket. That stud snapped easily, like it was already fatigued. The rear rotor snapped hard, because my friend was torquing on it pretty good. Two studs came all the way out. The last two are still in the engine, but one has damaged threads from the nut's crimp, and the other is all rusty. Why didn't they use SS studs? Can I drill them out and use a helicoil? Is it soft metal? Softer than SS?
The only thing this engine was missing, was the alternator and a few odds and ends. I plan to run this engine NA so it'll last forever. All the turbo and intake manifolding will go. Who wants it? It'll go on Ebay as a way for someone to get this stuff if he purchased a short block and needs the cool 3 ROTOR manifold and all that. I think the water pump is still good. I'll use my FC pump in my Cosmo, or REPU.
Wow, exactly 24 hours ago to this minute is when the 20B arrived. It's like 11:51 on my clock here.
I noticed in a picture of now's 20B ****, that at least one of his studs was missing or broken. Rob's 4 door HB Cosmo broke a stud or two during some spirited driving at the track. Is it common? Why didn't mazda use stainless steel studs like on T2 engines and stuff? The nuts are SS, but they have a funny crimped section that grips the threads. The front rotor looked like it was leaking past the gasket. That stud snapped easily, like it was already fatigued. The rear rotor snapped hard, because my friend was torquing on it pretty good. Two studs came all the way out. The last two are still in the engine, but one has damaged threads from the nut's crimp, and the other is all rusty. Why didn't they use SS studs? Can I drill them out and use a helicoil? Is it soft metal? Softer than SS?
The only thing this engine was missing, was the alternator and a few odds and ends. I plan to run this engine NA so it'll last forever. All the turbo and intake manifolding will go. Who wants it? It'll go on Ebay as a way for someone to get this stuff if he purchased a short block and needs the cool 3 ROTOR manifold and all that. I think the water pump is still good. I'll use my FC pump in my Cosmo, or REPU.
Wow, exactly 24 hours ago to this minute is when the 20B arrived. It's like 11:51 on my clock here.
06-10-03, 03:35 PM
#2
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Carboning seems to be common on these engines, perhaps because they get lazed around town so much in Japan. Mine is quite dirty in the ports and on the rotors, but the compressions are all good so thats a relief.
If you are keen to sell the intake manifolding, I would be interested in one to experiment with alternative throttle bodies on.
You can pm me if you like.
Gary
20B FC drag car - New Zealand.
If you are keen to sell the intake manifolding, I would be interested in one to experiment with alternative throttle bodies on.
You can pm me if you like.
Gary
20B FC drag car - New Zealand.
06-10-03, 10:10 PM
#3
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sweet jeff 
, if you need a 20b alternator my buddy might have one
mike
, if you need a 20b alternator my buddy might have onemike
06-11-03, 12:02 PM
#4
Oh good, so it's from the type of driving an automatic car normally experiences. Whew!
I thought injected cars had an oxygen sensor that automatically adjusted the AF mixture to try to prevent carbon from forming. But then again, if other parts in the system are old, it would add up to scewed readings anyway. Fair enough.
I doused the ports with MMO and hand cranked it untill my hand was sore. I made sure every apex seal had a good amount of MMO on it. At first, when it was dribbling out the exhaust ports, it was still red, although a little darker shade. Then after cranking, it came out black! I'll let it sit for 48 hours with occasional cranking and maybe a little more MMO to sort of dilute the spent, carbon-filled stuff.
I guess it's a good time to mention I got this engine for a little over the cost of a core. $600 (shipping was a little less than $200). Wouldn't it be a trip to achieve compression worthy of an engine costing at least twice as much? I can't wait to find out.
I'd like to earn back the amount I spent on the engine, if possible.
Who wants what?
You just want the intake manifolding? Hmm, do people usually get a good deal on these parts? The fuel rails still had gas in them, and it smelled ok. What about the injectors? Rat's nest? Turbos? TPS? Throttle body? Front cover? CAS? Oil pan and pickup tube? Water pump? OMP with stepper motor and lines? The condition of the rubber vacuum hoses and oil lines was kind of brittle. I guess that's to be expected on such an old engine. The only things I'd replace are all three oil lines. Everything else looks fair.
Heh, I may keep the turbos and build two blow-through setups for some 4 port 13Bs or something. Lol, I don't know.
Also, if I ever actually get the guts to install a 20B in my MG midget, I'll have to keep the stock LIM. If I sell all the manifolding to you, I just hope the next engine comes with as much as this one did, at least.
Ok, so here are the basics of what I'd like to do with this engine. I'd like to install it in my REPU to work out the bugs in my 20B dizzy and the carb setup. I want to eliminate all the drivability issues before I install a 20B in my Cosmo. Who knows, maybe the next engine I get won't be so old and tired? Maybe I'll try my luck with FI?
Mike, I don't need a 20B alt because I won't be running the fuel injection or other modern electronics. My igniton consists of three J-109 ignitors and stock coils. I think some other guy needs a 20B alt more than I do.
I thought injected cars had an oxygen sensor that automatically adjusted the AF mixture to try to prevent carbon from forming. But then again, if other parts in the system are old, it would add up to scewed readings anyway. Fair enough.
I doused the ports with MMO and hand cranked it untill my hand was sore. I made sure every apex seal had a good amount of MMO on it. At first, when it was dribbling out the exhaust ports, it was still red, although a little darker shade. Then after cranking, it came out black!
I'll let it sit for 48 hours with occasional cranking and maybe a little more MMO to sort of dilute the spent, carbon-filled stuff.I guess it's a good time to mention I got this engine for a little over the cost of a core. $600 (shipping was a little less than $200). Wouldn't it be a trip to achieve compression worthy of an engine costing at least twice as much? I can't wait to find out.
I'd like to earn back the amount I spent on the engine, if possible.
Who wants what?
You just want the intake manifolding? Hmm, do people usually get a good deal on these parts? The fuel rails still had gas in them, and it smelled ok. What about the injectors? Rat's nest? Turbos? TPS? Throttle body? Front cover? CAS? Oil pan and pickup tube? Water pump? OMP with stepper motor and lines? The condition of the rubber vacuum hoses and oil lines was kind of brittle. I guess that's to be expected on such an old engine. The only things I'd replace are all three oil lines. Everything else looks fair.
Heh, I may keep the turbos and build two blow-through setups for some 4 port 13Bs or something. Lol, I don't know.
Also, if I ever actually get the guts to install a 20B in my MG midget, I'll have to keep the stock LIM. If I sell all the manifolding to you, I just hope the next engine comes with as much as this one did, at least.
Ok, so here are the basics of what I'd like to do with this engine. I'd like to install it in my REPU to work out the bugs in my 20B dizzy and the carb setup. I want to eliminate all the drivability issues before I install a 20B in my Cosmo. Who knows, maybe the next engine I get won't be so old and tired? Maybe I'll try my luck with FI?
Mike, I don't need a 20B alt because I won't be running the fuel injection or other modern electronics. My igniton consists of three J-109 ignitors and stock coils. I think some other guy needs a 20B alt more than I do.
Last edited by Jeff20B; 06-11-03 at 12:04 PM.
06-11-03, 12:42 PM
#5
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ok, no biggie we're in the middle of doing the 20b2000, so theres cosmo stuff everywhere
mike
mike
06-11-03, 01:12 PM
#6
Lol, just like my garage. At least the engine is now stripped. I could actually mount it on my engine stand right now. But then again, I think I'd need to use the two threaded holes in the special 20B-only intermediate plate instead of the standard front plate. It may be a tad heavy.
This will be cool to have two 20B powered trucks running.
This will be cool to have two 20B powered trucks running.
06-11-03, 03:32 PM
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Originally posted by Jeff20B
You just want the intake manifolding?
You just want the intake manifolding?
Perhaps you might like a trade on the turbos I have. The secondary has been rebuilt (never run since) with a TO4B compressor, which makes it ideal for a custom setup. I still have the ex manifolds as well.
My 20B (B756) came without alternator too. I ended up swapping the main pulley for a FC3S one and putting the FC water pump on. That way I can use the FC alternator. Its all going into a FC drag car, so I didn't need huge electric or water capacity.
Gary
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06-12-03, 02:39 PM
#8
I've got the elbow but it's missing one chrome cap nut. All the rest were there.
I'll be going NA so no need for turbos. Well, for now anyway. My plans could change at the drop of a hat.
I'm going to step outside, jack up a car, and take a gander at the underside to see if it would take kindly to a 20B. I've just got to quit dinking around on all these rotary forums all day lol.
I'll be going NA so no need for turbos. Well, for now anyway. My plans could change at the drop of a hat.
I'm going to step outside, jack up a car, and take a gander at the underside to see if it would take kindly to a 20B. I've just got to quit dinking around on all these rotary forums all day lol.
06-12-03, 07:47 PM
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Just for pricing bases, I got my UIM for $50 from mazdatrix and my TB from them for $80. I have no idea if I just caught dave on a good day or not, but that is what I ended up paying.
06-12-03, 08:01 PM
#12
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Originally posted by Turbo 3
I NEED the TPS please!!! PM me for what you want for it. Not sure if mine is shorted but nonetheless wouldn't mind a spare.
I NEED the TPS please!!!
PM me for what you want for it. Not sure if mine is shorted but nonetheless wouldn't mind a spare.
mike
06-12-03, 11:05 PM
#13
How about $45 for the UIM and $75 for the throttlebody? The TB elbow pipe is sometimes not included (like the alt, heh). Hmm.
I know a guy who might need two knock sensors. Here is a link to some pics of his engine with a little list I wrote of what I'd need to do to fit a 20B in my Cosmo (it's a rather old list now, man, I've learned a lot since then). http://www.geocities.com/cd23c/20b.html
Kurgan, where did you find another oil return line? I remember it was you or somebody else that needed one. Is your front cover ok? Any damage? Do you need a front cover? Pullies? Air pump? 3PK belt? Waterpump?
I think the TPS is the same from an FD and a 20B. So, whatever those go for used is what I'd like to get for it.
I know a guy who might need two knock sensors. Here is a link to some pics of his engine with a little list I wrote of what I'd need to do to fit a 20B in my Cosmo (it's a rather old list now, man, I've learned a lot since then). http://www.geocities.com/cd23c/20b.html
Kurgan, where did you find another oil return line? I remember it was you or somebody else that needed one. Is your front cover ok? Any damage? Do you need a front cover? Pullies? Air pump? 3PK belt? Waterpump?
I think the TPS is the same from an FD and a 20B. So, whatever those go for used is what I'd like to get for it.
06-13-03, 04:36 PM
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Originally posted by Jeff20B
How about $45 for the UIM and $75 for the throttlebody? The TB elbow pipe is sometimes not included (like the alt, heh). Hmm.
I know a guy who might need two knock sensors. Here is a link to some pics of his engine with a little list I wrote of what I'd need to do to fit a 20B in my Cosmo (it's a rather old list now, man, I've learned a lot since then). http://www.geocities.com/cd23c/20b.html
How about $45 for the UIM and $75 for the throttlebody? The TB elbow pipe is sometimes not included (like the alt, heh). Hmm.
I know a guy who might need two knock sensors. Here is a link to some pics of his engine with a little list I wrote of what I'd need to do to fit a 20B in my Cosmo (it's a rather old list now, man, I've learned a lot since then). http://www.geocities.com/cd23c/20b.html
Jeff, send me a pm and we'll work out the details.
Anyone need knock sensors, I have the 3 that came off my 20B, and the TPS as well. PM me for any small stuff like this. My 20B is becoming an allout drag engine, and won't use a lot of it.
Gary
06-14-03, 12:02 AM
#15
rotaspec, you've got a PM.
My 20B is getting an FB front cover to go into a GLC as a gymkhana car with some drag racing now and then. Yes it will take a 20B. Kindly or not. I don't need the 20B front cover or waterpump with pullies as it's got an RX-3 front crossmember with front cover mounts and an FC waterpump.
I don't need my injectors or rails, but I'll keep my primary rail with injectors in as plugs untill I get 1.5 Racing Beat injector plug kits (heh I wonder if they'd sell half a kit?)
I can sell at least one knock sensor right now. I'll ask they guy who's engine's pictures are on my page before I'll know if I can sell all three.
Anyone need a spare 20B pan and pickup tube? I've once seen a tweaked pan in an FC. I guess it didn't leak or contact the pickup tube, but anyway, I'm going with a custom pan and pickup tube.
Anyone need a CAS?
My 20B is getting an FB front cover to go into a GLC as a gymkhana car with some drag racing now and then. Yes it will take a 20B. Kindly or not.
I don't need the 20B front cover or waterpump with pullies as it's got an RX-3 front crossmember with front cover mounts and an FC waterpump.I don't need my injectors or rails, but I'll keep my primary rail with injectors in as plugs untill I get 1.5 Racing Beat injector plug kits (heh I wonder if they'd sell half a kit?)
I can sell at least one knock sensor right now. I'll ask they guy who's engine's pictures are on my page before I'll know if I can sell all three.
Anyone need a spare 20B pan and pickup tube? I've once seen a tweaked pan in an FC. I guess it didn't leak or contact the pickup tube, but anyway, I'm going with a custom pan and pickup tube.
Anyone need a CAS?
06-15-03, 10:29 AM
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Originally posted by j9fd3s
sweet jeff , if you need a 20b alternator my buddy might have one
mike
sweet jeff
, if you need a 20b alternator my buddy might have onemike
06-15-03, 10:38 AM
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no, and maybe, the 20b has a different pulley, and the case has a snout on it too
06-15-03, 11:24 AM
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ahh, probably not a direct swap then. SOB Maybe I'll just have the local shop rebuild mine so I know it's good.
Looks like a tight fit in there! Did you make those spark plug wires or just buy a set somewhere? I'm trying to source out a universal or cut to length set for my FB.
Looks like a tight fit in there! Did you make those spark plug wires or just buy a set somewhere? I'm trying to source out a universal or cut to length set for my FB.
06-15-03, 04:50 PM
#19
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Originally posted by setzep
ahh, probably not a direct swap then. SOB Maybe I'll just have the local shop rebuild mine so I know it's good.
Looks like a tight fit in there! Did you make those spark plug wires or just buy a set somewhere? I'm trying to source out a universal or cut to length set for my FB.
ahh, probably not a direct swap then. SOB Maybe I'll just have the local shop rebuild mine so I know it's good.
Looks like a tight fit in there! Did you make those spark plug wires or just buy a set somewhere? I'm trying to source out a universal or cut to length set for my FB.
mike
06-18-03, 01:27 AM
#20
I sent a PM to j9fd3s, and Turbo 3 that is similar to this post:
My paypall account says it will take 3 to 4 bussiness days for funds to appear in my bank account. I also just upgraded to a premier account.
I've just got to wait a few days before the funds will apear in my bank account. Then I can pay the shipping charges on all these parts I getting rid of.
I'll be checking my account twice a day. Just letting you guys know what's up.
My paypall account says it will take 3 to 4 bussiness days for funds to appear in my bank account. I also just upgraded to a premier account.
I've just got to wait a few days before the funds will apear in my bank account. Then I can pay the shipping charges on all these parts I getting rid of.
I'll be checking my account twice a day. Just letting you guys know what's up.
06-19-03, 01:45 AM
#21
Whoa, that was quick! According to paypal, my account is up to speed now. j9fd3s' package is already on its way.
rotaspec, yours will be sent tomorrow if my bank account really is up to date (I've got to stop by anyway because my telephone banking service is temporarily offline). If it's all good, I'll get your package sent straight away.
rotaspec, yours will be sent tomorrow if my bank account really is up to date (I've got to stop by anyway because my telephone banking service is temporarily offline). If it's all good, I'll get your package sent straight away.
06-19-03, 03:12 PM
#22
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Originally posted by Jeff20B
Whoa, that was quick! According to paypal, my account is up to speed now. j9fd3s' package is already on its way.
rotaspec, yours will be sent tomorrow if my bank account really is up to date (I've got to stop by anyway because my telephone banking service is temporarily offline). If it's all good, I'll get your package sent straight away.
Whoa, that was quick! According to paypal, my account is up to speed now. j9fd3s' package is already on its way.
rotaspec, yours will be sent tomorrow if my bank account really is up to date (I've got to stop by anyway because my telephone banking service is temporarily offline). If it's all good, I'll get your package sent straight away.
mike
06-19-03, 03:28 PM
#23
That's between you and your girlfriend.
I just grabbed a box that had the rat's nest in it. It looked like the right size to use, so I tried it and viola.
My bank hasn't updated yet. I'll check tomorrow.
I just grabbed a box that had the rat's nest in it. It looked like the right size to use, so I tried it and viola.
My bank hasn't updated yet. I'll check tomorrow.
Last edited by Jeff20B; 06-19-03 at 03:31 PM.
06-20-03, 04:12 PM
#25
I used extra cardboard pieces around the TB so it'll have extra protection. I also used some foam, bubble wrap, and packing peanuts. Also, each item is in two plastic bags to keep the peanuts out of the intake runners and stuff. It's all inside an ATX computer case box. It ended up costing an extra $8 or so over the original price. I hope it gets to you in good condition. I know some people like to throw things.