I'm working on my 20B project and I'm wondering which Engine Management to buy. It would be nice to have a Motec but who wants to pay that much. Please let me know what you guys are running and if you have any problems, concerns or what you would do diffirent. Your help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Aldo

 

The best engine management system to use is the one recommended by your local tuner and/or used by technically competent friends who have had success with it. Systems favored in one region are not always popular in other regions, making troubleshooting support difficult if there is no one around to hold your hand.

That said, here are my thoughts. Electromotive makes some very good and intuitive products now (TEC3), with good rotary support. All the other system manufacturers, other than MoTeC, have been problematic for us. Haltech and Microtech software sucks in my opinion. The Microtech, at least, is a breeze to install and get running on the first try, but we have not been happy with drivability tuning and the tech support SUCKS...it took us innumerable phone calls and emails to get them to admit there was a test mode to fire the injector drivers constantly to verify if they were working. Three of four drivers were bad, as it turned out, and it would have saved us a lot of time to know that sooner, instead of having to prove to tech support that we really did verify everything else first. I don't have a lot of experience with the newer Haltechs, but we have had all kinds of hardware and software problems with the E6 series. And when returning one to have the flash memory replaced, they tried to bill us an extra $50 for customs, which was BS because it was an item being serviced and returned; not imported/exported. Nice try. PowerFCs are the most popular system we work with and one we have had a lot of success with, but obviously that is not an option for you.

As I said, those are just some observations. Again, the best system is the one your friends/tuner use. They all have quirks and pitfalls, but if you can find people who have worked around them to get good results, that is the key to success.

 

Microtech

 

Choose your tuner first.
You live in Orlando so there are a couple of 3-rotor cars around for example a certain red FC.
Every system presently out there is capable of doing the job but it's up to the tuner to get the most out of the particular system so more than likely they would have a preference in brand they are comfortable using. Also every system is going to offer different choices or options that you're going to be needing or not. Do your homework by researching or asking around for results.
Good luck.

 

This is all great feedback. I eventually want to get to the point where I can tune myself. I know the engineering behind it, but I just need to learn the system and capabilities. That will come in time after I have chosen a system. I've always heard good things about the TC3. Let's hope my wallet can stand it. Keep those suggestions coming.

Aldo

 

I have just swapped from a microtech to the Haltec E11 both systems are easy to tune for the self tuner like myself. Of those two i'd never go back to the microtech due to the lack of options where as the haltec will basicly control anything you want to add as well as the engine. The software has given no issues at all and aftersales from Haltec spot on. They'd emailed me a map to get the car started within 24hrs of my asking. I can't comment on any of the other options as i've not used them.
Kevin

 

First of all, what Crispeed said is just plain true. That's fine that you want to learn to tune yourself, but you don't want to learn. . .with no teacher (tuner). . .with a 3-Rotor as your test mule. Pretty expensive learning curve.

Another important thing to keep in mind, again like Cris said, is that YOU need to decide which system is best based on research.

Everyone has their own opinions as to which is best. . .and everyone has had successes and failures with every type of system.

I personally am overjoyed with my decision to get a Haltech. Lots of friends in my local rotary community have microtechs, and I am VERY glad that I didn't jump on that bandwagon. Why I like my e11v2 more than the microtech . . . ability to simply load another map for a whole different motor if I want to for one. A friend of mine was accidentally shipped a LT8 for some 6 cylinder, and had to have it shipped back to microtech for a flash to the correct motor. This took much longer than it ought to have, and resulted in tons of unneccessary downtime. With a Haltech, there is no fixed map, just simply load, or create from scratch, anything you want. I've found microtechs customer support to be inferior to haltech's. no map-switching on the fly with microtech, in other words, with my haltech i can have a race gas tune and a pump gas tune and just flip a switch to toggle between maps, no such feature that i'm aware of in the microtech world.

i could be mistaken, so don't quote any of this as gospel. Someone with more experience can correct anything I said that is incorrect.

again, research.

good luck
ryan

 

We are a distributer for electromotive, PM me and I can give you a run-down on the prices for a 3-rotor setup. I had personally horrible problems with microtech on the Lt-12 series, as well as the customers that came in. So I recommend Haltech or Electromotive.

 

+1

and I have Brand New LT12's on the shelf.. No waiting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

That is normal when dealing with the psycho-protectionist Anzacs, and unfortunately it is not limited to one particular company.

 

I've narrowed it down to Electromotive & Haltech. You guys are persuasive.

I definitely don't want to learn on my three rotor. I tuned my PFC. I know how to tune. Electromotive and Haltech are a lot better. My other thought is getting a computer that will run on my two rotor and three rotor. Having two harness for both engines. Learn how to use on the two rotor and later when I have everything for my 3 rotor then install it.

Aldo

 

Like someone said before, you're in orlando like me and there are lots of microtech tuners here. Its very helpful to have something so comon sometimes.
Where do you stay at? I'd like to come check your car out sometime.

 

Care to explain what issues/problems you encountered with the Microtech Lt-12 series?

Thanks
JD

 

Currently I'm living in Orlando but I will be changing jobs in two weeks. I'll be moving to Jupiter. I know Pettit is close but I don't know anybody that tunes there. I'm always hesitant of shops. I like to do as much as I can by myself. I will be getting my 3 rotor hopefully next week after I pay all my bills. My next order of business is to by the Engine Management system. It's going to be a slow process with the move and rellocating, finding a house, etc. I can't wait. My car has been sitting for 8 months.

Aldo

 

The LTx-12s I had on my three rotor, would get very bad ignition glitches from 2,200-3,000 rpms, only after 5 minutes of warm-up. I did every possible thing to get rid of the glitch, and it never went away. After contacting microtech, and sending it back for repair, I had it configured for a two rotor turbo. Once installed on that car, soon as it hit past 1psi the ignition would break-up and cause a very bad mis-fire. I then sent it back a third time, and recieved a brand new unit. I didnt chance it again, and sold it. A customer came in with a RB25det, and the Lt-12s with X-6, and after 5 minutes of tuning, the rpms started getting a bad glitch at idle, and then died. Once we tried starting it, and did a data-log, the rpm signal was going from 500rpms- 10,000rpms in a milli-second. He sent it in, received it back, and we retuned it, with no problems, until 20mins into the tune. After a full throttle run, it suffered a ignition break-up so violent that the plugs were destroyed, and almost broke the engine. He recently sent it back for a second time. Then, I learned that the LTX-12 is known by microtech to have issues due to on-board ignitors getting hot, and causing internal ignition interference. Does not explain why the Lt-12s did it too, and I dont care to find out. Microtech knew about a problem and never told me, and that is very shady. On the good news, the Lt-8 and Lt-10s I never had a problem with.

 

^Take your car to crispeed in Miami. Look him up on this forum. He's extremely knowledgable. IMO, Haltech is the way to go.

 

Sounds like it was happening when the secondaries were kicking in. Did you ever conclude it was ignition troubles?
I had similar problems till I got a good tuner to take it under his care.

 

Secondaries kick in when the RPM point AND load are reached. I data logged many times, and the secondaries were not kicking in, the gltich was there. I concluded that the circuit board on the LTX-12s was getting interference from the on-board ignitors. It only happened once the ignitors were warm, which took roughly 5 mins of running.

 

The Microtech that we have been having ignition problems with is also an LTX-12, which was installed on a 3-rotor sand rail. Three bad ignitors.

 

Has anyone used the DTA Engine Management System?