Thanks guys. I should know for sure next week about this. I appreciate it!

 

No rush Ramy, I simply want to see the E-shaft... not worried about the price.. I am sure I can afford it...

 

Then easy on the large orange font! LOL

I'm sure you can.

 

Someone has to keep you awake around here.. When you have time...

 

Zzzzz (lol)

 

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

 

Any pics yet?

Jackson

 

CARLOS!!!!!!

 

Since I've spent most of this day on the computer,
I will shime in and clarify some speculation.

Note: WHAT DICTATES the number of pieces on en ecentric shaft is the NUMBER OF MAIN BEARINGS. period.

That been said,
EXCEPT for "Mechanicals Power system's" propriatary 3 piece, 4 Main bearing shaft.
There has never been a 3 piece Mazda 3 Rotor shaft.
Not Guru's, Not Presicion, not any one else has manufactured a 3 piece / 3 Rotor E-shaft

Only Steve from MPS, has made a few 3 piece shafts w/ 4 main bearings and only
for in-house

Both Mazda and Presition make or have made some 3 piece 4 Rotor E-shafts, but again
4 Rotors.

Yashiro Engineering out of Japan has bult and tested what is believed to be a "4 piece", 4 Rotor engine, and for a FACT has (5) main bearings.
The extra one placed between # 2 & # 3 just like the Guru's 2 piece, 2 Rotor.
Although it is believed to NOT to be a Roller as in Guru's own but rather a plain bearing just like in all the Stationary Gears.

MPS, places a plain bearing between # 2 and # 3 in the narrow center steel plate.
Making for a much reduced "Sling" effect of having 2 Rotors unsuported when side by side.

Below's illustration shows a side by side comparison of a Mazda OEM 20b E-Shaft, and a Presicion shaft from Down Under.



The photo clearly shows the difference of both shafts and the thinner section
between # 2 & 3 of the Presicion shaft.
This mainly accouts for the nearly 2 pound lighter weght of the Auzy.

This next photo illustrated were MPS. installs the 4th Main bearing, and therefore nessesatating the build up of his shaft in 3 separate sections for their 3 Rotor shaft.



Money been NO OBJECT, this one wins hands down

In my opinion: CLEARLY A WORK OF ART !

GT1-20b

 

Finally, Thanks Carlos..

I was really finding it difficult to believe that the Jeff Bruce shaft was 3 piece.. This was the main reason why I kept bugging Ramy to post pics of the shaft he said he had in his inventory...

So the only 3 piece E-shaft is also a 4 bearing journal shaft ... That shaft is the MPS shaft built by Steve in canada

The Jeff Bruce shaft is a factory replacement which is well made and is machined a bit more to take some weight off...

How much is the MPS shaft ?
How much is the Jeff Bruce shaft?

 

I respect Carlos and his knowledge 100%, but I can tell you for a FACT that I have spoken DIRECTLY with both Jeff Bruce and one of his affiliates here in the US NUMEROUS times, and Jeff Bruce sells BOTH a "Replacement 20B shaft assy" and a "20b shaft assy, 3 piece with extra needle bearing assy." That's a DIRECT QUOTE from what he and his associate have shared with me IN WRITING. Now I'm not the most knowledgeable guy when it comes to engine internals, so I won't speak about what I saw. But I will say that the above leaves us w/ only one of 3 scenarios:

1) Jeff Bruce has an e-shaft that Carlos doesn't know about
2) Jeff Bruce is reselling the MPS shaft
3) Jeff Bruce is a liar

Take your pick
~Ramy

 

Not sure if you are still abroad but.....

you said earlier in this thread......... " I gots one in stock" and I was under the impression that you where talking 3 piece 20B e-shaft that Jeff Bruce manufactures... maybe I mis-read or something?? This is the shaft I and a few others here have been waiting for you to post pics of..... and pricing

Maybe you can explain?

 

Yes, I was indeed speaking of the 3-piece shaft. And I do have 'em in stock. But a) I am STILL traveling at the moment, as I have clarified to ya THREE times now...I've been away for over a month, as I have more important personal things to attend to, and b) I don't store the e-shafts myself. An e-shaft isn't something you want being shipped back and forth. You want it handled as few times as possible. That's why the e-shafts are obtained directly from Jeff Bruce and kept in one facility. There, they're placed on a special fixture and checked for dimensional stability through a CNC digitizer. From this procedure all lobe and journal dimensions are recorded in relation to the centerline of the shaft.

Why? Because during processing, shipping and other handling, a 3 rotor shaft can easily be knocked out of alignment with the centerline of the shaft. The result? A customer puts together an engine and the rotor hits the housings. We currently make it a practice to check and document the procedure. When the shaft leaves the facility, it's right and it's documented.

Moreover, the shafts sit in a controlled environment (light, heat, etc). Yes, we take these e-shafts VERY seriously.

As for pricing, like I said, email me if you're interested. If you just want a ballpark figure, it's a bit over $3,000, FOB.

~Ramy

 

That's very good to know.
Many times I've seen so called supplier's idea of a good shaft turned into a nightmare once runout is checked. I have a couple of those laying around you can use for desk ornaments.

 

Is my assumption correct that the e shaft is not the weak link in a street driven setup, say up to 600-700 WHP? My understanding is the e shaft and flex comes into play when you want to take the car above 8,500 RPMs.

 

EXACTLY. Most people don't recognize that this heavy piece of steel can actually be damaged.

Shafts previously sold into the US directly from Jeff created many horror stories. Jeff would ship them out in a cardboard tube, much like a printed poster. Too many arrived with no end caps and the cardboard crushed. So it became a priority to create a reasonable alternative. Now, a special container is actually sent to Jeff for the shafts to be shipped back in.

The good news, however, is that a shaft can be straightened. This includes the original Cosmo shafts. Mazda had a similar problem four years ago. When you get your shaft from us, it will come with a sheet that gives you the runout numbers. No shaft that has ever been made is perfect. It documents the condition it leaves in. We install the shaft into a PVC sleeve with endcaps and support the ends from movement.

When an engine is assembled, the normal process is to turn it over as it is assembled (not with a starter motor after it's in the car). The customer doesn't need to go through the extremes we have to. Simply set the shaft on vee blocks with a dial gauge and check the shaft.

Unless there is a broken package, the freight carrier usually won't be any help. Remember that the center bearing shaft is made in three parts. The center of the shaft that contains the keyway is much smaller than the rest. Correction is pretty simple in concept.

These are lessons learned, and why we take it so seriously.

David, in short, housing flex is the more primary issue you'll face, well before you face any issues w/ e-shaft flexing. For you to face issues w/ e-shaft flex, you'd first have to have a purpose-built block to address housing flex...and that type of block has NO business being on the street

~Ramy

 

Just from the way a shaft is stored can cause problems.


That depends on the individual involved.

 

Jeff Bruce does indeed make a 3 piece 20B eccentric shaft. Its available as either a 'long' shaft (thick intermediate housing) or as a 'short' shaft (thin intermediate housing).

As mentioned above, the extra bearing is a needle roller and is fitted to the 'empty' intermediate housing, thus eliminating flex in the un-supported 'long' section of the shaft.

Here is the 2 rotor 2 piece, imagine an extra removable lobe for the 3 piece.

 

Very true.

Yes, I know there are some psychos out there *ahem*

 

All the above is true. It's a proprietary design, high strength steel 3-piece shaft designed and machined by Steve at Mechanical Power Systems (www.mpsys.ca) himself. Unlike the other three piece shaft offering, this one uses an OEM Mazda bearing pressed into a custom machined housing, which is in turn machined into the 40mm intermediate plate between the rear and centre rotor. Some key advantages of this shaft over others is the sheer strength (and I guess shear strength too :p) and rigidity allow for a sustained rev-limit of 14,500rpm+ (with supporting engine modifications), and power figures well into the quad digits. Imagine the power potential that could be unleashed with a usable rpm range like that in both NA and turbo, road race and drag! This shaft is the real deal if you are serious about making power!!!

However, I believe his reason for not producing these was that he was doubtful of the market potential. If this became available again, would any of you be interested? There would be many configuration options and packages available, including required centre plate machine work/modifications, high strength counterweights options, as well a proprietary e-shaft/counterweight drive design.

How many of you would invest in these parts if they were readily available?

 

I can confirm that this is NOT true.

 

Well, I would be interested.. I have been waiting for the E-shaft Ramy said he has in his inventory to materialize to no avail, so I will move on.. Price on the E-shaft and all the parts needed to make it work please.. and pics would be great too.. Please advise..

 

I think a few people would be interested. . . I know I would pending answers to J2LAs questions.

 

Any info?

 

Same thing I have been thinking.. Ramy said he had the E-shaft and would post pics.......... said he was traveling abroad.... Myself and few others are still waiting for him to post the pics.. probally will never happen.


On the other hand, B6T from CANADA sounded like he could deliver...maybe he will be kind enough to come back and update us..