550hp from a 20B w/ sequential twins?
07-08-04, 05:56 PM
#1
550hp from a 20B w/ sequential twins?
I always thought the twins on the cosmo were smaller than the FD's, and they didn't make much power...(made for only what...6lbs of boost?)
I was looking on Pettit's website, and I saw his Banzai 3-rotor is making 550 HP @ 7500 RPM and 460 Lb-Ft @ 5500 RPM on 2 sequential turbochargers...
Is this possible on the cosmo stockers? Or is he using different twins (granted the only other sequentials I know of are the FD's, and I heard they won't fit at all onto a 20B...)??
I was looking on Pettit's website, and I saw his Banzai 3-rotor is making 550 HP @ 7500 RPM and 460 Lb-Ft @ 5500 RPM on 2 sequential turbochargers...
Is this possible on the cosmo stockers? Or is he using different twins (granted the only other sequentials I know of are the FD's, and I heard they won't fit at all onto a 20B...)??
07-08-04, 07:14 PM
#3
Yea one's larger, and one's smaller. I saw that on a thread yesterday. But the compressor wheels are smaller than the FD's from what I understand.
As for sequential or not, check out http://www.pettitracing.com/sections/Banzai.html
It's written in BOLD letters halfway down the page...SEQUENTIAL twins...so...??
As for sequential or not, check out http://www.pettitracing.com/sections/Banzai.html
It's written in BOLD letters halfway down the page...SEQUENTIAL twins...so...??
07-09-04, 01:24 AM
#6
Lives on the Forum
Originally posted by Swolbynos
non sequential stockers.
an FD has hitachi ht-12 i think and the cosmo has a 12 and 15.
someone correct me if i am wrong.
non sequential stockers.
an FD has hitachi ht-12 i think and the cosmo has a 12 and 15.
someone correct me if i am wrong.
-Ted
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07-09-04, 07:18 AM
#8
Senior Member
This starts to get tricky when you compare numbers between the JC & FD engines.
Despite what the specs say, the FD turbos are physically larger than the JC ones.
The front turbo on the JC is similar in size but the rear turbo is tiny compared to the FD
RE-Amemiya have done extensive tests on the 20B engine & found that 450hp is the max (reliable) power achievable with the limiting factor being turbo flow.
This is with 1-bar boost. Any more than that & these turbos will **** themselves in a matter of hours (of boost time..)
Seen it happen on a JC Cosmo with my own eyes & this guy was running just 1.2-bar of boost. Turbos spat the dummy & killed the engine within 500km of driving
Despite what the specs say, the FD turbos are physically larger than the JC ones.
The front turbo on the JC is similar in size but the rear turbo is tiny compared to the FD
RE-Amemiya have done extensive tests on the 20B engine & found that 450hp is the max (reliable) power achievable with the limiting factor being turbo flow.
This is with 1-bar boost. Any more than that & these turbos will **** themselves in a matter of hours (of boost time..)
Seen it happen on a JC Cosmo with my own eyes & this guy was running just 1.2-bar of boost. Turbos spat the dummy & killed the engine within 500km of driving
07-09-04, 09:54 AM
#9
At the risk of redundancy, that's pretty much what I thought...that you weren't going to be making more than 450 w/ the stockers. But Pettit's website clearly states/boasts 550HP with 2 sequential turbos...so he's gotta be using a different set of twins??
07-09-04, 10:42 AM
#10
DRFTRX7
Originally posted by DMRH
This starts to get tricky when you compare numbers between the JC & FD engines.
Despite what the specs say, the FD turbos are physically larger than the JC ones.
The front turbo on the JC is similar in size but the rear turbo is tiny compared to the FD
RE-Amemiya have done extensive tests on the 20B engine & found that 450hp is the max (reliable) power achievable with the limiting factor being turbo flow.
This is with 1-bar boost. Any more than that & these turbos will **** themselves in a matter of hours (of boost time..)
Seen it happen on a JC Cosmo with my own eyes & this guy was running just 1.2-bar of boost. Turbos spat the dummy & killed the engine within 500km of driving
This starts to get tricky when you compare numbers between the JC & FD engines.
Despite what the specs say, the FD turbos are physically larger than the JC ones.
The front turbo on the JC is similar in size but the rear turbo is tiny compared to the FD
RE-Amemiya have done extensive tests on the 20B engine & found that 450hp is the max (reliable) power achievable with the limiting factor being turbo flow.
This is with 1-bar boost. Any more than that & these turbos will **** themselves in a matter of hours (of boost time..)
Seen it happen on a JC Cosmo with my own eyes & this guy was running just 1.2-bar of boost. Turbos spat the dummy & killed the engine within 500km of driving
Craig
07-09-04, 10:44 AM
#11
Yea I would hope & expect that they did engine work...not just a swap.
I believe I read somewhere the Comso twins are only good/meant for something like 6 lbs...(remember the Cosmo was a luxury car). So 12.5 lbs would definitely be well out of their efficiency range, if what I read is correct...
I believe I read somewhere the Comso twins are only good/meant for something like 6 lbs...(remember the Cosmo was a luxury car). So 12.5 lbs would definitely be well out of their efficiency range, if what I read is correct...
07-09-04, 11:46 AM
#15
Is it me, or every performance mod we do on the FDs seems to see the twins as the limiting factor?
On 13B-REW's, you can't make more than 400 on the twins...for more, ya gotta go single. On the 20B, you can't make more than 480 on the twins...for more, ya gotta go single.
What's the deal? Those of us who are suckers for twins just can't have our cake AND eat it too, can we??
I wonder how much work it would be (if it would work at all, at that) to try and fit the FD stocker twins on a 20B, and get some nice power out of it...??
On 13B-REW's, you can't make more than 400 on the twins...for more, ya gotta go single. On the 20B, you can't make more than 480 on the twins...for more, ya gotta go single.
What's the deal? Those of us who are suckers for twins just can't have our cake AND eat it too, can we??
I wonder how much work it would be (if it would work at all, at that) to try and fit the FD stocker twins on a 20B, and get some nice power out of it...??
07-09-04, 03:30 PM
#16
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Pettit claims they do something to the turbos. I believe it has been discussed quite often before.. Search, for I think someone previously posted some detailed information on them.
07-09-04, 08:27 PM
#17
Originally posted by Red-Rx7
Pettit claims they do something to the turbos. I believe it has been discussed quite often before.. Search, for I think someone previously posted some detailed information on them.
Pettit claims they do something to the turbos. I believe it has been discussed quite often before.. Search, for I think someone previously posted some detailed information on them.
I did search, and I came up with this...
Originally posted by Kurgan
Pettit offers an upgrade and rebuild of your 20B stock turbos to utilize S5 T2 compressor wheels. This runs $1800.
Pettit offers an upgrade and rebuild of your 20B stock turbos to utilize S5 T2 compressor wheels. This runs $1800.
Originally posted by mmaragos
I found out a little more...
The primary is larger, with flat turbine blades. The secondary is similar to the 13B-REW (in size and blade config).
I have read that the stock boost on a Cosmo is .7 bar (a little more than 10 PSI). Not too sure if that is correct.
Pettit changes the stock 20B turbos to non-sequential and turns to boost up to 14.7 psi to get 550 HP.
I found out a little more...
The primary is larger, with flat turbine blades. The secondary is similar to the 13B-REW (in size and blade config).
I have read that the stock boost on a Cosmo is .7 bar (a little more than 10 PSI). Not too sure if that is correct.
Pettit changes the stock 20B turbos to non-sequential and turns to boost up to 14.7 psi to get 550 HP.
Originally posted by capt. bill1
Thanks for the replies. I am in and out of town a lot right now so only get back here every 3 weeks or so.
I was at Pettit and Cam said he runs his conversions at 8-10 psi of boost in a nonsequential mode. He said he has found higher levels of boost to hurt longivity. He also said he is looking at using a single turbo setup in the near future.
Thanks for the replies. I am in and out of town a lot right now so only get back here every 3 weeks or so.
I was at Pettit and Cam said he runs his conversions at 8-10 psi of boost in a nonsequential mode. He said he has found higher levels of boost to hurt longivity. He also said he is looking at using a single turbo setup in the near future.
Last edited by FDNewbie; 07-09-04 at 08:29 PM.
07-10-04, 03:03 AM
#21
DRFTRX7
No no. It was at 12.5psi...do you even know what engine/company I'm talking about???
Originally posted by Red-Rx7
The 550 HP is FLYWHEEL and it is as 14.7 PSI on a ported engine.
The 550 HP is FLYWHEEL and it is as 14.7 PSI on a ported engine.
07-10-04, 11:09 AM
#22
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Originally posted by WHIPSrx7
No no. It was at 12.5psi...do you even know what engine/company I'm talking about???
No no. It was at 12.5psi...do you even know what engine/company I'm talking about???
I am not sure what you are talking about, but I am talking about Cam's (Pettits) conversion. The 550 BHP is from their ported engine @ 1 bar of boost.
07-10-04, 12:32 PM
#24
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Originally posted by FDNewbie
Awesome low end response...no large wait for spoolup, and of course, it being just so unique...
Awesome low end response...no large wait for spoolup, and of course, it being just so unique...
In all honestly, I bet there are more 20b conversions with the twins than singles. Why? People can't afford to go all out after the conversion. The twins came with the package. A new turbo setup will cost them on average another 4-5k.
07-10-04, 01:19 PM
#25
Originally posted by Red-Rx7
Yes... but a matched turbo to your porting will do the same; with higher top end HP. But, I guess you loose the "unique" thing your wanting.
In all honestly, I bet there are more 20b conversions with the twins than singles. Why? People can't afford to go all out after the conversion. The twins came with the package. A new turbo setup will cost them on average another 4-5k.
Yes... but a matched turbo to your porting will do the same; with higher top end HP. But, I guess you loose the "unique" thing your wanting.
In all honestly, I bet there are more 20b conversions with the twins than singles. Why? People can't afford to go all out after the conversion. The twins came with the package. A new turbo setup will cost them on average another 4-5k.
Don't get me wrong, if I wanted to make some unbelievable #s, I know a big single is the only way to go. But that's not my aim, and I just don't see singles as being anything special. It's the way that almost everyone takes...even kids in Neons and Civics.
As far as cost, I'm not worried about "extra" costs at all...seeing that I can't afford the 20B conversion done "right" as it is. Maybe in a couple of years...