550hp from a 20B w/ sequential twins?
07-10-04, 01:37 PM
#26
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Again, with correct matching, I don't think there is a problem at all.
With my setup, I reach full boost by 2800 rpms. In our dyno, it started a tad late, but still made 300 rwhp @ 4000 RPM. It then made 400 RWHP by 4300 RMP's. Then, another 275 rpms later, it made 500 RWHP @ 4575 RMP. Then again, @ 4850 RPM's it made 560 RWHP (starting to flatten out due to turbo efficency).
I call that excellent mid range power. From 4000 - 5000 RPM's, the power goes from 300 RWHP to 580 RWHP.
The other thing to consider too, is the additional weight from the plumbing, manifolds, and turbo. The idea for most is to try and keep that 50/50 balance on the car.
With my setup, I reach full boost by 2800 rpms. In our dyno, it started a tad late, but still made 300 rwhp @ 4000 RPM. It then made 400 RWHP by 4300 RMP's. Then, another 275 rpms later, it made 500 RWHP @ 4575 RMP. Then again, @ 4850 RPM's it made 560 RWHP (starting to flatten out due to turbo efficency).
I call that excellent mid range power. From 4000 - 5000 RPM's, the power goes from 300 RWHP to 580 RWHP.
The other thing to consider too, is the additional weight from the plumbing, manifolds, and turbo. The idea for most is to try and keep that 50/50 balance on the car.
07-10-04, 01:47 PM
#27
2800rpm, eh? That's pretty impressive... and you're making 580rwhp...nice!
In regards to the weight issue...you're right, but hopefully when I do do my 20b swap, I don't want to just swap it...I wanna do it the PFS way (not necessarily by them, but the same method). Push the engine back, gotta cut up the firewall, move the tranny back 4" - 6" and move the shifter up 4" - 6"...so the 130 or so lbs you gain from the swap end up maintaining a perfect 50-50 to weight ratio....
EDIT: Red-Rx7, what turbo are you running?
In regards to the weight issue...you're right, but hopefully when I do do my 20b swap, I don't want to just swap it...I wanna do it the PFS way (not necessarily by them, but the same method). Push the engine back, gotta cut up the firewall, move the tranny back 4" - 6" and move the shifter up 4" - 6"...so the 130 or so lbs you gain from the swap end up maintaining a perfect 50-50 to weight ratio....
EDIT: Red-Rx7, what turbo are you running?
Last edited by FDNewbie; 07-10-04 at 01:51 PM.
07-10-04, 01:51 PM
#28
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Originally posted by FDNewbie
2800rpm, eh? That's pretty impressive... and you're making 580rwhp...nice!
In regards to the weight issue...you're right, but hopefully when I do do my 20b swap, I don't want to just swap it...I wanna do it the PFS way (not necessarily by them, but the same method). Push the engine back, gotta cut up the firewall, move the tranny back 4" - 6" and move the shifter up 4" - 6"...so the 130 or so lbs you gain from the swap end up maintaining a perfect 50-50 to weight ratio....
2800rpm, eh? That's pretty impressive... and you're making 580rwhp...nice!
In regards to the weight issue...you're right, but hopefully when I do do my 20b swap, I don't want to just swap it...I wanna do it the PFS way (not necessarily by them, but the same method). Push the engine back, gotta cut up the firewall, move the tranny back 4" - 6" and move the shifter up 4" - 6"...so the 130 or so lbs you gain from the swap end up maintaining a perfect 50-50 to weight ratio....
It is a lot of work to cut the wirewall, do the transmission, etc. In all honesty, I don't see that as a practical solution. I need to corner weigh the car, but I would think mine is dang near the 50/50 ratio.
07-10-04, 01:56 PM
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07-10-04, 06:07 PM
#31
DRFTRX7
I am talking about the 20b by RX-7 Specialties.
Originally posted by Red-Rx7
What?
I am not sure what you are talking about, but I am talking about Cam's (Pettits) conversion. The 550 BHP is from their ported engine @ 1 bar of boost.
What?
I am not sure what you are talking about, but I am talking about Cam's (Pettits) conversion. The 550 BHP is from their ported engine @ 1 bar of boost.
07-10-04, 07:12 PM
#33
Originally posted by 20B 3rd Gen
I agree with Mike Remy, it is not worth cutting up your car to get 50/50 ratio when it's not far off after the swap anyway,especially when it's probably not noticable
I agree with Mike Remy, it is not worth cutting up your car to get 50/50 ratio when it's not far off after the swap anyway,especially when it's probably not noticable
But the biggest issue still stands...I don't have the $$ lol. $5K - $7K for a tranny?!! HOLY...lol. I'm workin on it...but it's gonna be a while...
~Ramy
*rub rub*
07-11-04, 09:31 PM
#37
Originally posted by 20B 3rd Gen
I was being sarcastic you bought RZ Recaro seats, If you can afford those you can do the 20b swap
I was being sarcastic you bought RZ Recaro seats, If you can afford those you can do the 20b swap
07-11-04, 10:23 PM
#39
Originally posted by Wargasm
I'm gonna sum it up...
If you are going to go to all the trouble of doing a 20B, don't ruin it with the stock twins.
I'm gonna sum it up...
If you are going to go to all the trouble of doing a 20B, don't ruin it with the stock twins.
07-11-04, 10:29 PM
#40
Originally posted by 20B 3rd Gen
I wouldn't say that, Cam (Pettit) is very happy with his twin set up its very streetable so its all about your choice.
I wouldn't say that, Cam (Pettit) is very happy with his twin set up its very streetable so its all about your choice.
John, you know if it's possible??
07-11-04, 11:15 PM
#41
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I'd talk to BNR, I know that they said at one point they could work on the 20b's twins, but it was for a fairly hefty price.
In terms of staying sequential, would EMS would you use? I'm fairly confident that it could be done with the AEM EMS pretty easily.
In terms of staying sequential, would EMS would you use? I'm fairly confident that it could be done with the AEM EMS pretty easily.
07-11-04, 11:24 PM
#42
Originally posted by johnisenglish
I'd talk to BNR, I know that they said at one point they could work on the 20b's twins, but it was for a fairly hefty price.
In terms of staying sequential, would EMS would you use? I'm fairly confident that it could be done with the AEM EMS pretty easily.
I'd talk to BNR, I know that they said at one point they could work on the 20b's twins, but it was for a fairly hefty price.
In terms of staying sequential, would EMS would you use? I'm fairly confident that it could be done with the AEM EMS pretty easily.
As for ECU...I have no idea. I'm *guessing* that Pettit uses their own ECU... ??
07-12-04, 02:30 AM
#43
Pettit doesn't run their twins sequentialy. Thats incorrect info on their web site. They run them in parrallel/non seq. Unless something major has changed over these last few years, there isn't anything short of the stock ecu that will run the twins sequentialy.
07-12-04, 09:19 AM
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Pettit uses the LINK ECU for their Banzai's. However, I'm very confident that you can use the AEM EMS to run the 20B twins in sequential mode, as it has enough user defiable outputs based on RPM and Manifold pressure to simulate the outputs of the stock ECU.
07-12-04, 11:03 AM
#45
Originally posted by t-von
Pettit doesn't run their twins sequentialy. Thats incorrect info on their web site. They run them in parrallel/non seq. Unless something major has changed over these last few years, there isn't anything short of the stock ecu that will run the twins sequentialy.
Pettit doesn't run their twins sequentialy. Thats incorrect info on their web site. They run them in parrallel/non seq. Unless something major has changed over these last few years, there isn't anything short of the stock ecu that will run the twins sequentialy.
Also...doesn't Pettit make ECUs to run FDs sequentially? I thought he did...if so, then one running a 3 rotor sequentially isn't far off at all...
07-12-04, 03:57 PM
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Originally posted by WHIPSrx7
I am talking about the 20b by RX-7 Specialties.
I am talking about the 20b by RX-7 Specialties.
07-12-04, 04:12 PM
#47
DRFTRX7
Originally posted by SoloRacer
Ask them for a copy of their dyno sheet - you won't get one because as far as anyone knows they've never put their 20b on the dyno. All you get for an explaination is "this combination of parts should be good for that kind of power". In my opinion one shouldn't be quoting power figures unless they can actually back up what they are claiming. You will also notice that the power figures they are advertising keep changing.
Ask them for a copy of their dyno sheet - you won't get one because as far as anyone knows they've never put their 20b on the dyno. All you get for an explaination is "this combination of parts should be good for that kind of power". In my opinion one shouldn't be quoting power figures unless they can actually back up what they are claiming. You will also notice that the power figures they are advertising keep changing.
LOL Thanks for the info,Craig
07-12-04, 07:03 PM
#48
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Guys, remember: The best way to find out what Pettit is doing is to call and ask.
Last time I talked to Cam, around March, they were using the LINK ECU for their Banzai setup. Modifying an ECU that's setup to run 2 rotors to run 3 rotors with or without split is actually quite a big task which is why you'll want to use a very flexible ECU from the start.
I don't know if they're running it in sequential or not for sure, but I don't think its so unbelievable that they are. Its really just a matter of switching three solenoids on and off at the appropriate time and thats just a matter of having an ECU that can do that. I know that the AEM EMS can and I'm fairly sure that the LINKplus EMS can as well.
As far as dyno charts go, if my memory serves me correctly there was a guy selling a Banzi FD around March / April and he had an engine dyno chart for it. I wish I could remember what the specs on it where but I really didn't look that much into it.
Last time I talked to Cam, around March, they were using the LINK ECU for their Banzai setup. Modifying an ECU that's setup to run 2 rotors to run 3 rotors with or without split is actually quite a big task which is why you'll want to use a very flexible ECU from the start.
I don't know if they're running it in sequential or not for sure, but I don't think its so unbelievable that they are. Its really just a matter of switching three solenoids on and off at the appropriate time and thats just a matter of having an ECU that can do that. I know that the AEM EMS can and I'm fairly sure that the LINKplus EMS can as well.
As far as dyno charts go, if my memory serves me correctly there was a guy selling a Banzi FD around March / April and he had an engine dyno chart for it. I wish I could remember what the specs on it where but I really didn't look that much into it.
07-12-04, 07:12 PM
#49
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Originally posted by WHIPSrx7
I haven't noticed the power figures changing, but I have heard something else about how they are somewhat shady...I will probably find a custom place to do my porting and such anyhow. Maybe I will do it in a year or two when I can afford the machines and everything! LOL Thanks for the info,
Craig
I haven't noticed the power figures changing, but I have heard something else about how they are somewhat shady...I will probably find a custom place to do my porting and such anyhow. Maybe I will do it in a year or two when I can afford the machines and everything!
LOL Thanks for the info,Craig
07-12-04, 07:44 PM
#50
Originally posted by FDNewbie
T-von...that's a pretty huge mistake to make, being that it's in bold in HUGE letters...so I just think it's *highly unlikely* it's a mistake.
Also...doesn't Pettit make ECUs to run FDs sequentially? I thought he did...if so, then one running a 3 rotor sequentially isn't far off at all...
T-von...that's a pretty huge mistake to make, being that it's in bold in HUGE letters...so I just think it's *highly unlikely* it's a mistake.
Also...doesn't Pettit make ECUs to run FDs sequentially? I thought he did...if so, then one running a 3 rotor sequentially isn't far off at all...
I wouldn't say it was a HUGE mistake, it's just incorrect info that "maybe" needs to be corrected. Keep in mind that the 20b info on their web page dates back to the late 90's. There have been many discussions about the ability to run the twins sequentially and the stock ecu is whats used to do so.
Also I don't think you would be able to get those hp numbers (550hp)they are advertising if the twins were ran seq(too much air flow turbulance with the inner flapper valves). These turbos are designed to provide lots of spool in the low range for increased torque which improves the heavier Cosmos drivability with an auto. Look at how the twins perform in our Fd's. I don't think anyone has broken the 400rwhp mark with them in seq mode. Non seq????? thats a differant story.