20B to T56 bellhousing question
06-26-14, 12:58 PM
#1
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20B to T56 bellhousing question
So, my Rx7 20B project is progressing steadily and I need to decide on how to mount the T56 to the 20B. Most people seem to use the auto bellhousing and started motor, but WGT here in the UK use the manual RX7 bellhousing and starter with a suitable lump removed from the T56 gearbox to allow the starter motor to fit.
this is my first 20b build, anyone like to say which bellhousing would be better and why?
this is my first 20b build, anyone like to say which bellhousing would be better and why?
07-10-15, 10:08 AM
#2
i have a solution for you i have been working for the last couple of years with several manufactures and came up with a bolt on kit to fit the rx7 fd and a t56 transmission upgraded new to handle upto 850 torque. if interested PM me.
So, my Rx7 20B project is progressing steadily and I need to decide on how to mount the T56 to the 20B. Most people seem to use the auto bellhousing and started motor, but WGT here in the UK use the manual RX7 bellhousing and starter with a suitable lump removed from the T56 gearbox to allow the starter motor to fit.
this is my first 20b build, anyone like to say which bellhousing would be better and why?
this is my first 20b build, anyone like to say which bellhousing would be better and why?
07-13-15, 10:23 AM
#4
dont know yet all the details for all the parts because i have to install transmission and send measurements to have the driveshaft custom made. i have talked to all the manufactures about perhaps creating a kit and they have seemed to be up for it so hopefully if there is a lot of interest it would give us some buying power to get a good deal on all the parts.
07-14-15, 01:01 AM
#7
Would this work for a 13B REW as well? Definitely interested but I am looking to pull the trigger on something within the next month or 2. I could wait a little longer if this would work for me and is going to happen. As of now I am deciding on either a modified Liberty Gears factory trans or a modified Liberty Gears TKO 600.
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07-14-15, 12:15 PM
#8
07-14-15, 12:28 PM
#9
i did quite a bit of research and there is no other transmission that even come close to the tremec t56 magnum but the Tranzilla RZ version because of its ability to take the power, parts availability, and the ability to buy it new as an affordable option. In addition, the people in RSGear workout all the ways that they can make those transmission stronger and reliable. they really know what they are doing out there they have cars running upwards of 2000hp running a different version of the transmission. so the transmission is upgradeable to any power level you have. they have other version up to 1000hp and up it all depends what you would like and your application its completely custom from gear selection to maximize your power-band, different shifter positions ect.
The kit that im working on also will included a SFI certified bellhousing that is fundamental when you are making 400hp+. its great insurance in case your clutch explodes it would contain everything inside the bellhousing. i have seen some clutches explode and they do some carnage. So i think this is the only safe, affordable, new transmission options out there.
The kit that im working on also will included a SFI certified bellhousing that is fundamental when you are making 400hp+. its great insurance in case your clutch explodes it would contain everything inside the bellhousing. i have seen some clutches explode and they do some carnage. So i think this is the only safe, affordable, new transmission options out there.
07-14-15, 12:32 PM
#10
the problem with buying a used GTO tremec is that you really dont know how it was treated before and most people that buy GTO's dont buy them to just cruise. Most of the ones that i have seen have been beaten badly. i know for sure my friend bought one supposedly was rebuilt and he spent money to install it on the car and a month later it broke. then he had to pay to take it out of car, repair it ect and it cost him much more than a new transmission would have cost him. Another thing is that the GTO transmission is only rated for 450 torque the t56 magnum Tranzilla RZ is rated for 850 torque and can be upgraded to take even more if you can make the power.
07-14-15, 12:41 PM
#11
yes there are some options for you for a 13b application. if you have a automatic rear plate for your engine this will fit as is. but if you have a manual back rear plate we also have a bellhousing to work with your 13b application but it takes some work to install it. because the t56 magnum Tranzilla RZ has a big body the installation of the starter for the manual rx7 will hit the transmission body. so you would need to shave off some material from the transmission body to make it fit but its been done already and it works great. just a bit more work. If you plan to drive the car in the street i will highly recommend this transmission because is a transmission that OEM's like the viper, GTO, Aston Martin, Corvettes, ect use in their vehicles so its a great drivers transmission that can handle big power. really nothing comes close to this transmission. Shifting is smooth as butter and it also provides the ability to select each gear to maximize your power range. So for a 13b application like yours i would go with a more aggressive gear selection to help with your acceleration but you can select as slow as a .50 6th gear to give you great gas mileage for cruising. the liberty transmission are race transmissions so they perform like race transmission and are very expensive to fix. i looked at that option too.
Would this work for a 13B REW as well? Definitely interested but I am looking to pull the trigger on something within the next month or 2. I could wait a little longer if this would work for me and is going to happen. As of now I am deciding on either a modified Liberty Gears factory trans or a modified Liberty Gears TKO 600.
07-15-15, 12:14 AM
#12
Sounds pretty much perfect! I will definitely hold off till this is available. Looking forward to seeing the finished product. Any estimated timeline when the parts/kit will be available?
yes there are some options for you for a 13b application. if you have a automatic rear plate for your engine this will fit as is. but if you have a manual back rear plate we also have a bellhousing to work with your 13b application but it takes some work to install it. because the t56 magnum Tranzilla RZ has a big body the installation of the starter for the manual rx7 will hit the transmission body. so you would need to shave off some material from the transmission body to make it fit but its been done already and it works great. just a bit more work. If you plan to drive the car in the street i will highly recommend this transmission because is a transmission that OEM's like the viper, GTO, Aston Martin, Corvettes, ect use in their vehicles so its a great drivers transmission that can handle big power. really nothing comes close to this transmission. Shifting is smooth as butter and it also provides the ability to select each gear to maximize your power range. So for a 13b application like yours i would go with a more aggressive gear selection to help with your acceleration but you can select as slow as a .50 6th gear to give you great gas mileage for cruising. the liberty transmission are race transmissions so they perform like race transmission and are very expensive to fix. i looked at that option too.
07-15-15, 09:57 AM
#13
PM me to add you to the list of people interested and perhaps if we have a good amount of people interested that will give us some buying power to get better deal.
07-22-15, 03:37 PM
#14
the problem with buying a used GTO tremec is that you really dont know how it was treated before and most people that buy GTO's dont buy them to just cruise. Most of the ones that i have seen have been beaten badly. i know for sure my friend bought one supposedly was rebuilt and he spent money to install it on the car and a month later it broke. then he had to pay to take it out of car, repair it ect and it cost him much more than a new transmission would have cost him. Another thing is that the GTO transmission is only rated for 450 torque the t56 magnum Tranzilla RZ is rated for 850 torque and can be upgraded to take even more if you can make the power.
Stock GTO tranny may be rated at only 450lbs but it has held up extremely well in GTORx7's turbo 20b. He was making well north of 600whp so he may have been at the limits. Anything higher then you should need that tremec upgrade. I have a CTS-V version with the crazy linkage. It's gonna work well for me since my engine is moved back and lowered. I can basically mount the shifter anywhere I please.
Be nice if someone had an actually had a write up on the swap.
Last edited by t-von; 07-22-15 at 03:43 PM.
07-22-15, 04:49 PM
#15
the GTO transmission is a tremec t56, which was replaced with the t56 magnum. i know of many people that have destroyed their transmission after purchasing them and installing them to have to take them back out to rebuild them (Most GTO owners dont buy GTO's to have a sunday cruise). its much more expensive that way and you still looking at a stock trans. with less money you can buy a brand new trans that its meant to handle to power. while making my decision in which trans to buy i talk to Tremec and they told me if i was going to run high 500 to 600 hp i was taking the trans to more than its intended limits and it was just going to break probably when you least expected. so they recommended the t56 magnum because it handles 700 torque but the problem for my application if you don't move your engine back is that the shifter point is moved forward and then you have to purchase a shifter to move it back 6 inches thats when it becomes expensive. so i work with the people that make the Tranzilla to come up with a solution and at the same time make something better. we came up with the Tranzilla RZ which is capable of holding 850 torque and its a brand new transmission fully customized to your needs from gears, length, power ratings ect. Im working on a full bolt on kit for the FD community to provide a safe, reliable, and new option to do the conversion.
PS ones i finish the kit im hoping to be able to create a video for the conversion. Hope this helps.
when you say this does it mean the parts needed or what are you referring too? Maybe i can help
Be nice if someone had an actually had a write up on the swap.
PS ones i finish the kit im hoping to be able to create a video for the conversion. Hope this helps.
when you say this does it mean the parts needed or what are you referring too? Maybe i can help
Be nice if someone had an actually had a write up on the swap.Stock GTO tranny may be rated at only 450lbs but it has held up extremely well in GTORx7's turbo 20b. He was making well north of 600whp so he may have been at the limits. Anything higher then you should need that tremec upgrade. I have a CTS-V version with the crazy linkage. It's gonna work well for me since my engine is moved back and lowered. I can basically mount the shifter anywhere I please. Be nice if someone had an actually had a write up on the swap.
Be nice if someone had an actually had a write up on the swap.
07-22-15, 05:35 PM
#16
Well I already have the Howard Coleman adapter plate and fd auto bell housing. Since I'm NA, I actually found a stock diameter sprung 31 spline clutch disc from Ram clutches to fit a 2nd gen Rx7/Rx8 upgraded push style pressure plate. This will keep me from having to buy that button flywheel adapter and all the stuff needed to install a twin discs clutch to an auto flex plate. Plus I can retain the flywheel I already have. My 20b's red line is 8,500 so an oem style is fine for me. What I'm unsure about is the hydraulic release bearing and clutch master cylinder. I think the overall clutch height of an oem style will be the same as as twin disc set button setup on the flex plate so release bearing shoud still work.
Last edited by t-von; 07-22-15 at 05:49 PM.
07-22-15, 06:10 PM
#17
Since you are NA the regular t56 should be good cause your not going to be making over 450 torque. my only concern specially if your going to run N/A and rev the engine 8500 is using the auto bellhousing. have seen many clutches or flywheels explode and done some damage to car and drivers highly recommend a SFI bellhousing for you. Also check on your transmission but my understanding is that the t56 is 26 spline input and 31spline output unless the one you have has a different configuration.
Well I already have the Howard Coleman adapter plate and fd auto bell housing. Since I'm NA, I actually found a stock diameter sprung 31 spline clutch disc from Ram clutches to fit a 2nd gen Rx7/Rx8 upgraded push style pressure plate. This will keep me from having to buy that button flywheel adapter and all the stuff needed to install a twin discs clutch to an auto flex plate. Plus I can retain the flywheel I already have. My 20b's red line is 8,500 so an oem style is fine for me. What I'm unsure about is the hydraulic release bearing and clutch master cylinder. I think the overall clutch height of an oem style will be the same as as twin disc set button setup on the flex plate so release bearing shoud still work.
07-23-15, 08:12 AM
#18
Since you are NA the regular t56 should be good cause your not going to be making over 450 torque. my only concern specially if your going to run N/A and rev the engine 8500 is using the auto bellhousing. have seen many clutches or flywheels explode and done some damage to car and drivers highly recommend a SFI bellhousing for you. Also check on your transmission but my understanding is that the t56 is 26 spline input and 31spline output unless the one you have has a different configuration.
It may be 26 spline (just cant remember) as I've already bought the clutch disc to fit the shaft (fd disc on the right, t56 on the left). Rpm wise I think I will be fine as the Rx8 clutch is designed for up to 10k. Mine will never go that high as I don't have oil mods or balancing for it.
Last edited by t-von; 07-23-15 at 08:19 AM.
07-23-15, 08:48 AM
#19
good luck with the project looking nice!
It may be 26 spline (just cant remember) as I've already bought the clutch disc to fit the shaft (fd disc on the right, t56 on the left). Rpm wise I think I will be fine as the Rx8 clutch is designed for up to 10k. Mine will never go that high as I don't have oil mods or balancing for it.
08-21-15, 09:05 AM
#20
Update on the progress
I received an email yesterday from the clutch company and im happy to announce that i Spec clutches will be making the clutch kit for our application. they originally develop the clutch kit with me. Im just trying to find out pricing for the kit to make it as affordable as possible for the rotary community. In a previous post i mentioned that i had reached out to Tilton but they would have to develop a full kit which would take sometime and i really would like to get the kit out there. If anybody is interested in a Tilton clutch kit and is willing to pay and wait to develop it feel free to PM me and i can make it happen. The clutch kit that i have available thru Spec would be a Twin Disk Carbon/Carbon Clutch kit capable of 1200hp plenty of wiggle room. If you have any question or interest in the kit feel free to PM me. The next step i will be installing transmission and making transmission mount, send measurements to get drive-shaft made ect. Getting closer to finish line!!!!
08-21-15, 09:13 AM
#21
by the way i have a single clutch prototype for and RX7 flywheel to bolt on to the t56 with 26 spline. its good for around 450hp i was told so for a NA application it would be a great choice. im looking to sell it.
It may be 26 spline (just cant remember) as I've already bought the clutch disc to fit the shaft (fd disc on the right, t56 on the left). Rpm wise I think I will be fine as the Rx8 clutch is designed for up to 10k. Mine will never go that high as I don't have oil mods or balancing for it.
08-21-15, 11:16 AM
#22
Keep up the great work RZ as bolt on solutions are always a plus. Im about 90% done on making mine fit with the fd manuel bellhousing. This way all I have to do is use that above clutch disc I already bought and retain my stage 3 fd pull style clutch and slave cylinder I already have on the car.
Im about 90% done on making mine fit with the fd manuel bellhousing. This way all I have to do is use that above clutch disc I already bought and retain my stage 3 fd pull style clutch and slave cylinder I already have on the car.
Last edited by t-von; 08-21-15 at 11:20 AM.
08-22-15, 10:54 PM
#23
thanks for complement, im blushing lol. i try to help the community i love to get the best and safest parts possible to keep the rotary engines revving happy. If you are interested in getting a manual bellhousing SFI certified now the same manufacture that made the ones for the automatic have one for the manual. if interested PM me. the only thing is that you have to shave off some of the side of the transmission to clear the rear facing starter. happy you can see the light at the end of the tunnel, hope mine comes soon its been a long journey to get here but is all worth the wait lol.
Keep up the great work RZ as bolt on solutions are always a plus. Im about 90% done on making mine fit with the fd manuel bellhousing. This way all I have to do is use that above clutch disc I already bought and retain my stage 3 fd pull style clutch and slave cylinder I already have on the car.
Im about 90% done on making mine fit with the fd manuel bellhousing. This way all I have to do is use that above clutch disc I already bought and retain my stage 3 fd pull style clutch and slave cylinder I already have on the car.
