Kurgan

I have a Haltech E6K to control the fuel and sparc. I'm going to be running 0 degrees split timing for the time being... my idea is to switch to the E11 when it is released (allegedly, it can do split on the 3 rotor).

Here's my question... what do I need to buy to get the rest of the ignition going? I have the stock set of T2 coils sitting in my garage... should I just get another leading and trailing and bolt them in as well? or should I get some MSD ignitors or something?

Someone with any insight, please post. I"m ready to move on this like now!!!!

Thanks,
Nick

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

i think you can use 3 sets of leading coils fc or fd. with the fd you need ignitors. you can use 6 ignitors and 6 coils, or you can use the stock cosmo coil/ignitor setup. the jc cosmo stuff is crazy money though.
i was looking myself and didn't really find any quick answers

mike

Kurgan

The stock cosmo setup is out of the question... I'm not looking for the cheap way out, but the best way out.... but that isn't saying that cost is NO concern at all...

Should I just head to the junkyard and get another set of T2 ignition? If this will work, thats what I'll do... I really don't want to drop several bills on a bunch of MSD boxes...

anyone have any ideas?

repuguru

I hope this thread takes off. I am really interested in how to set up a 20B ign.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

I'd like a 20B ignition that has two Leading sparks firing 180º apart on all three rotors. Don't forget the Trailing firing 15º after each initial Leading spark.

Evil Aviator

Many 20B-powered cars on the racetrack use the stock Cosmo coil packs along with a Motec. This is definitely NOT the cheap way out.

Just about any aftermarket EMS will let you time the 20B in 6-cylinder mode. None of them will allow for split timing, but since this is only for emissions control, I don't think that anybody will care unless they live in Kalifornia with the Emissions Gestapo.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

i live in califonia, but the 20b even with all the stock stuff fails the visual, you would have to get an exemption from the state inspector, plus from there you would actually have to make it pass the sniffer.

mike

repuguru

Will they issue the exemption upon you passing the test or do you have to pay for the exemption before you even try?

Kurgan

I know this ain't the cheap way out... Im just saying that I'm not looking for an answer like "go buy 2 distributors and these parts from radio shack... my brother's uncle said that you could get the 20b to run off of a Chevy 454 distributor and a toothpick." You know what I mean? Probably not

Anyhow, I don't have the cosmo coils... and I don't want to run a distributor... what are my options?

Evil Aviator

Check with the Haltech Jihad. I would think that you could run any type of ignition that is compatible with the E6K running a 6-cylinder engine.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

Just hire McGuyver!

repuguru

McGuyver doesn't need the distributor or toothpick. Just a roll of duct tape and he'll have it working in no time.

repuguru

Has anyone had any expierience with the Racing Beat modified 81-85 RX7 converted 3 rotor distributor?

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

not me, i wonder what they do. that the good thing about the 2 rotor you dont have to be able to figure out the firing order

mike

repuguru

They change the reluctor wheel from a 4 point contact to a 6 point contact. They make a special distrubutor cap. Evidentally the stock ignitors are not strong enough to fire the block, but they will work as triggers to fire a CDI ign of your choice. I have heard this is a $600 option to have this done to the stock 81-85 ign. But I have not yet talked with someone out there at RB or someone who has done it themselves.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

Not strong enough to fire the block? Which block? What are you talking about? (what is your evidence?)

As I understand it, the RB kit uses the stock two pickups AND ignitors AND coils and fires them through a cap and a modified stock rotor. Everything fires a little more often at any given RPM than on a 2 rotor engine, and if you're using an aftermarket tach, it needs to be set to 6cyl mode.

repuguru

I was talking about the motor.

I am just conveying what Racing Beat says in their own catalog. They use the magnetic pulse pickup in the dizzy to trigger a remote CDI. They claim the stock ignitiers are inadequate to drive coils directly in 20B application and are susceptible to misfire if used with a CDI.
Source: pg.43 of the 2000 RB catalog

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

im going to try 3 fd leading coils and an fd ignitor let you know how it works in a couple of days

mike

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

Oh ok guru. When you mentioned 'block' I thought you were refering to some sort of spark distribution device (yet you also mentioned the RB dizzy kit so I was curious).

With my experience using stock ignitors, I'd say they could probably be used on a 20B without problems (fired through a dizzy cap and rotor, like the RB kit). Isn't a 20B's RPM limit something like 8k RPM or whatever? Well, if a 2 rotor engine can run up past 10k without missing with the stock ignition, 7k RPM on a 20B would be no problem. I also assume 8k would be just fine as well.

Sounds to me like RB knows you spent a decent sum on the 20B itself, so might as well milk yah for everything else.

20B_FC

I don't know what you mean by this? The 3 rotors are spaced 120degs.

PK

crispeed

What if you were to fire the trailing coil with some type of timing retard box?
20B's fire at 120 deg's apart(non wasted spark) so that requires the use of 3 channels or igniters each to fire the leading and the trailing making it a total of 6 individual igniters, that's if you want to run split timing. What if you were to use three individual MSD timing retard boxes parallel with the leading igniters to fire each trailing igniters! Or better yet instead of 6 igniters what about two MSD DIS 6's ignition boxes one for leading and the other for leading. They both got 3 individual channels!
Anyone think it will work?

crispeed
87TII
9.20@150mph

repuguru

That is a good question? Through these forums I am gaining a foothold of what I have to do the spark up a 20B.

Jeff20B

iTrader: (13)

Exactly!

Guru, it took me a while to figure it out myself. But actually building it is whole other animal (when you don't have access to fabrication facilities). Let's just say that my 20B will run like my REPU does. That's all I can tell you because I haven't built it yet. Either that or a different more costly setup that will still run the same way, but might be easier to set up. Both of these setups won't need the RB dizzy kit (no firing through the cap and rotor for me!).

IronMdnX

iTrader: (1)

MSD does make a multi channel retard box. You can set it by RPM or by boost. I was thinking of using this and a pair of dis-4's. but after hearing that the AEM can do a 3 rotor w/ split timing, i'll be going that route..

waynespeed

It may work with the programmable DIS units. I was thinking of using the DIS 4 unit for the leading and then three BTM units for the trailing tapping of the three leading channels. This will enable running the split together during low load and by 5 psi you will be able to run a fifteen degree split on each rotor.

"MSD 6BTM, PN 6462
Supercharged or turbo engines will benefit from the 6BTM in more ways than one. Not only do the full energy sparks help burn the fuel mixture, it allows the driver to retard the ignition timing based on the amount of boost being produced by the supercharger. The timing is adjusted from a dash
mounted **** and can be retarded 1 - 3° per pound of boost with a maximum of 15°. There is also a built-in adjustable rev control to protect the engine from over-rev damage.

MSD DIS-4, PN 6215 (4 Channel Ignition)
Maximize your vehicle’s distributorless ignition system (DIS) with MSD’s powerful new ignition controls; the MSD DIS-2 and DIS-4. These Ignition Controls feature Multi-Channel capability, and can deliver up to 480 volts to the primary side of most DIS type dual output coils. With its two channels, the MSD Digital DIS-2 is designed for use on all 4-cylinder applications using 2 coils, while the DIS-4 can be used on all 6 and 8-cylinder engines with three or four coils. "