Write up - FC subframe swap (how I did it)
02-08-12, 05:02 PM
#30
Old [Sch|F]ool
The problem would be that key to my swap was using an FB power steering column. For some reason, people throw these away and downgrade their cars to the incredibly slow bus-like manual steering, where you practically have to hand-over-hand the thing just to change lanes. The P/S box is SO much more nice.
02-08-12, 07:59 PM
#31
I say go for it, kinda weird that you mention using the idler/steering box mounting holes along with some tabs as I was actually thinking about adding that exact thing to mine to add some extra strength. Great minds think alike apparently (not sure what our excuse is lol)
It's been a while since I looked at the ps column, but it looks very similar to a stock fc column at the bottom end. I bet some kind of modified intermediate shaft could be used to make it all work with an unmodified ps column... Something to look into for sure
It's been a while since I looked at the ps column, but it looks very similar to a stock fc column at the bottom end. I bet some kind of modified intermediate shaft could be used to make it all work with an unmodified ps column... Something to look into for sure
02-10-12, 12:00 PM
#32
Old [Sch|F]ool
I used S3 and S4 components for this.
03-04-12, 03:26 PM
#34
Old [Sch|F]ool
I'll try to rehost the pics I took. The FB column fits like it's supposed to (well, duh) but the FC column does not fit the dashboard, and the FB headlight/wiper switch can't be made to fit the FC column. The lengths are significantly different as well, and the FC column puts the ignition switch halfway into the dashboard, very hard to turn the ignition key. The steering wheel wound up sitting extremely close to the dashboard as well, exactly the opposite of better.
I used S3 and S4 components for this.
I used S3 and S4 components for this.
Rest of pics here: http://s1073.photobucket.com/albums/...%20Conversion/ All images I have are up there.
Hope this helps.
05-26-12, 07:33 AM
#35
Know of if anybody has done this while using the 12a or GSLSE 13B engine mounting style(front cover), but made the mount "wrap around" the engine to mount to the FC subframe. I think it could be possible. I'm really considering doing this swap now.
I just would have to figure out how to mount it with my GSLSE front cover. I should've built a damn turbo motor!!
I just would have to figure out how to mount it with my GSLSE front cover. I should've built a damn turbo motor!!
05-26-12, 07:54 AM
#36
"Pull the engine apart, put in a GSL-SE center housing, and use FC driver's side motor mount brackets on both sides. They will need alteration for engine position (redrill mount hole) on the driver's side, and minor redrilling to bolt to the engine and some extension on the passenger side.
This is how I have a GSL-SE engine on my FC subframe"
That quote is from Pele from another post I found. I found my answer. So my GSLSE engine will work. Now I just need to find a good reliable welder that will work for beer and food... I'm considering this even more now. hmmmmm
This is how I have a GSL-SE engine on my FC subframe"
That quote is from Pele from another post I found. I found my answer. So my GSLSE engine will work. Now I just need to find a good reliable welder that will work for beer and food... I'm considering this even more now. hmmmmm
05-26-12, 04:11 PM
#37
It's supposed to do that.
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Peejay, i looked at your album on your album, and it looked like there was a good bit of "massaging" done to your inner fender well haha. I may wind up cutting my inner fenders out and using trailer fenders just for the sake of clearance..plus I could possibly wind up with some neat little modified knuckles.
Also, I will attempting this with a ps FB column to start with. I'll let you know how it goes.
Also, I will attempting this with a ps FB column to start with. I'll let you know how it goes.
05-29-12, 07:46 AM
#38
I'm interested to see what you guys come up with using the PS column. I had the chance to get one about a year ago but didn't jump on it so I didn't get to try it for myself. Honestly though it would have been just to see how it worked as the route I went is still working great.
twinkletoes: I'm sure you could make the front cover mounting system work if you took enough time to fabricate a mounting system, but aren't you already running an FC engine in your car? The other option is that quote you found of Peejays, the SE center iron can be made to work similarly to an FC engine so you have some options. There's few downsides to the swap, although you'd lose your coveted wheels in the process...
twinkletoes: I'm sure you could make the front cover mounting system work if you took enough time to fabricate a mounting system, but aren't you already running an FC engine in your car? The other option is that quote you found of Peejays, the SE center iron can be made to work similarly to an FC engine so you have some options. There's few downsides to the swap, although you'd lose your coveted wheels in the process...
05-31-12, 06:24 PM
#39
twinkletoes: I'm sure you could make the front cover mounting system work if you took enough time to fabricate a mounting system, but aren't you already running an FC engine in your car? The other option is that quote you found of Peejays, the SE center iron can be made to work similarly to an FC engine so you have some options. There's few downsides to the swap, although you'd lose your coveted wheels in the process...
. So, i'll have to copy peejays solution. I know. I'm willing to lose the wheels for the benefits though.. i'll probably run some mint fc vert wheels like you till I find and save up for something more fancy.
06-01-12, 09:03 AM
#41
I'm becoming more hesitant on doing this though. I'm completely confident in my mechanical abilities, but not my welding abilities. I don't know if this would be a good project to start my own welding. Am I probably right? lol I don't think that would be safe. How many man hours do you think this took? Just measurements, subframe mounting, steering column mods and getting it "done". I might just go to a custom shop and spend 1000-1500$, show them this thread and what I wanted and let them do it.. Lets say I got charged 1500$. It'd be the same price as a re-speed setup, but I get turbo brakes and 5x114.3 for the same price.. decisions.. then I'd still have to put in price of new GSL rear end, new moser axles, bb rear kit, brake componets and new 5x114.3 wheels
. lol
06-01-12, 09:58 AM
#42
The 20mm spacers are from ebay, just make sure they are hub-centric in the correct size for FC wheels (I forget the # off hand, but it's easy to find on here) and you'll be all set. I should note that the longer studs they came with were crap (too short and shotty looking threads etc) so I went with a set of Moser studs (2.5" if i remember right but it's been a while)
Personally I would not have a shop work on my car for any project - ever. I don't trust them, and in the end I use each project as a learning experience. The only time my car is in a shop is for inspection and that's for the obvious reason that I'm not a state approved inspection facility lol.
Having said that, I've got hundreds of hours of metal work and welding under my belt, I wouldn't want something as critical as this to be my first welding project. Don't let that stop you though, get some scrap steel and practice welding. After a few hours of practice you'll be good to do this project. Nothing is really visible so as long as the welds are strong and have good penetration they don't need to be pretty.
As for time invested, I worked on the pieces on and off over the course of a month, then actually had the car apart for something like 2 weeks (it might have been longer I forget) but it also snowed on me during that time and this was all being done outside so that held me up. As far as an actual # of hours figure I couldn't really say...
Obviously it's your car and your call, but my only regret with the FC subframe was not doing it in 2006 when I was building the car in the first place
Personally I would not have a shop work on my car for any project - ever. I don't trust them, and in the end I use each project as a learning experience
. The only time my car is in a shop is for inspection and that's for the obvious reason that I'm not a state approved inspection facility lol.Having said that, I've got hundreds of hours of metal work and welding under my belt, I wouldn't want something as critical as this to be my first welding project. Don't let that stop you though, get some scrap steel and practice welding. After a few hours of practice you'll be good to do this project. Nothing is really visible so as long as the welds are strong and have good penetration they don't need to be pretty.
As for time invested, I worked on the pieces on and off over the course of a month, then actually had the car apart for something like 2 weeks (it might have been longer I forget) but it also snowed on me during that time and this was all being done outside so that held me up. As far as an actual # of hours figure I couldn't really say...
Obviously it's your car and your call, but my only regret with the FC subframe was not doing it in 2006 when I was building the car in the first place
06-01-12, 06:33 PM
#43
Old [Sch|F]ool
Peejay, i looked at your album on your album, and it looked like there was a good bit of "massaging" done to your inner fender well haha. I may wind up cutting my inner fenders out and using trailer fenders just for the sake of clearance..plus I could possibly wind up with some neat little modified knuckles.
Also, I will attempting this with a ps FB column to start with. I'll let you know how it goes.
Also, I will attempting this with a ps FB column to start with. I'll let you know how it goes.
06-03-12, 08:03 PM
#44
The 20mm spacers are from ebay, just make sure they are hub-centric in the correct size for FC wheels (I forget the # off hand, but it's easy to find on here) and you'll be all set. I should note that the longer studs they came with were crap (too short and shotty looking threads etc) so I went with a set of Moser studs (2.5" if i remember right but it's been a while)
Personally I would not have a shop work on my car for any project - ever. I don't trust them, and in the end I use each project as a learning experience. The only time my car is in a shop is for inspection and that's for the obvious reason that I'm not a state approved inspection facility lol.
Having said that, I've got hundreds of hours of metal work and welding under my belt, I wouldn't want something as critical as this to be my first welding project. Don't let that stop you though, get some scrap steel and practice welding. After a few hours of practice you'll be good to do this project. Nothing is really visible so as long as the welds are strong and have good penetration they don't need to be pretty.
As for time invested, I worked on the pieces on and off over the course of a month, then actually had the car apart for something like 2 weeks (it might have been longer I forget) but it also snowed on me during that time and this was all being done outside so that held me up. As far as an actual # of hours figure I couldn't really say...
Obviously it's your car and your call, but my only regret with the FC subframe was not doing it in 2006 when I was building the car in the first place
Personally I would not have a shop work on my car for any project - ever. I don't trust them, and in the end I use each project as a learning experience
. The only time my car is in a shop is for inspection and that's for the obvious reason that I'm not a state approved inspection facility lol.Having said that, I've got hundreds of hours of metal work and welding under my belt, I wouldn't want something as critical as this to be my first welding project. Don't let that stop you though, get some scrap steel and practice welding. After a few hours of practice you'll be good to do this project. Nothing is really visible so as long as the welds are strong and have good penetration they don't need to be pretty.
As for time invested, I worked on the pieces on and off over the course of a month, then actually had the car apart for something like 2 weeks (it might have been longer I forget) but it also snowed on me during that time and this was all being done outside so that held me up. As far as an actual # of hours figure I couldn't really say...
Obviously it's your car and your call, but my only regret with the FC subframe was not doing it in 2006 when I was building the car in the first place
I know, I know. I've only had my car in the shop to be tuned, painted, or aligned..other than that it's me or my buddies helping work on car. I might just pickup welder next week and start praticing.
Good to hear about you regretting it not doing it sooner lol. I'll get it done. Might take awhile, but I'll get there.
What type of welder you using? How many amps is it? I'm trying to look at what to start with, but will be good enough of a welder for one welding becomes second nature... and I can use a argon hookup? Thanks!
06-04-12, 08:33 AM
#45
Good, glad you decided to do it yourself
My welder is nothing special - a Lincoln 220 volt 175 amp MIG that I bought at Lowes in 2004. I've gone through hundreds of lb's of wire in that time and it's never let me down lol. I converted it to a true MIG setup (with shielding gas, was using flux cored previously) last fall and again, only regret not doing it sooner. For cost's sake you might want to run a spool or two of flux cored through it for your learning stages. It will give you a good idea of what you're doing without wasting the gas, then convert it to gas before you actually do the sub frame swap. The welds are much cleaner looking with the gas.
I'd like to get a TIG someday and be able to work with aluminum, but otherwise this welder has done everything I've ever needed it to.
My welder is nothing special - a Lincoln 220 volt 175 amp MIG that I bought at Lowes in 2004. I've gone through hundreds of lb's of wire in that time and it's never let me down lol. I converted it to a true MIG setup (with shielding gas, was using flux cored previously) last fall and again, only regret not doing it sooner. For cost's sake you might want to run a spool or two of flux cored through it for your learning stages. It will give you a good idea of what you're doing without wasting the gas, then convert it to gas before you actually do the sub frame swap. The welds are much cleaner looking with the gas.
I'd like to get a TIG someday and be able to work with aluminum, but otherwise this welder has done everything I've ever needed it to.
06-04-12, 10:37 AM
#46
Good, glad you decided to do it yourself
My welder is nothing special - a Lincoln 220 volt 175 amp MIG that I bought at Lowes in 2004. I've gone through hundreds of lb's of wire in that time and it's never let me down lol. I converted it to a true MIG setup (with shielding gas, was using flux cored previously) last fall and again, only regret not doing it sooner. For cost's sake you might want to run a spool or two of flux cored through it for your learning stages. It will give you a good idea of what you're doing without wasting the gas, then convert it to gas before you actually do the sub frame swap. The welds are much cleaner looking with the gas.
I'd like to get a TIG someday and be able to work with aluminum, but otherwise this welder has done everything I've ever needed it to.
My welder is nothing special - a Lincoln 220 volt 175 amp MIG that I bought at Lowes in 2004. I've gone through hundreds of lb's of wire in that time and it's never let me down lol. I converted it to a true MIG setup (with shielding gas, was using flux cored previously) last fall and again, only regret not doing it sooner. For cost's sake you might want to run a spool or two of flux cored through it for your learning stages. It will give you a good idea of what you're doing without wasting the gas, then convert it to gas before you actually do the sub frame swap. The welds are much cleaner looking with the gas.
I'd like to get a TIG someday and be able to work with aluminum, but otherwise this welder has done everything I've ever needed it to.
06-04-12, 11:22 AM
#47
Lol go for it, welding is fun (to me at least). If you go the same route as I did with that extended tab off the front (for the front mounting point) then the thickest you'll need to weld is 1/4". I forget how much my welder can handle, but as long as the 130 amp can do that then you should be all set. I believe it could, but you better check to make sure
In case you didn't read all the replies in this thread, Nofords raised some concerns about how I did that mounting tab. I've had 0 problems with it after thousands of miles of use, but I have toyed with the idea of reinforcing it at some point as a "just in case" safety measure. Just thought I'd point that out so you can decide for yourself how you go about it.
In case you didn't read all the replies in this thread, Nofords raised some concerns about how I did that mounting tab. I've had 0 problems with it after thousands of miles of use, but I have toyed with the idea of reinforcing it at some point as a "just in case" safety measure. Just thought I'd point that out so you can decide for yourself how you go about it.
06-04-12, 12:01 PM
#48
Lol go for it, welding is fun (to me at least). If you go the same route as I did with that extended tab off the front (for the front mounting point) then the thickest you'll need to weld is 1/4". I forget how much my welder can handle, but as long as the 130 amp can do that then you should be all set. I believe it could, but you better check to make sure
In case you didn't read all the replies in this thread, Nofords raised some concerns about how I did that mounting tab. I've had 0 problems with it after thousands of miles of use, but I have toyed with the idea of reinforcing it at some point as a "just in case" safety measure. Just thought I'd point that out so you can decide for yourself how you go about it.
In case you didn't read all the replies in this thread, Nofords raised some concerns about how I did that mounting tab. I've had 0 problems with it after thousands of miles of use, but I have toyed with the idea of reinforcing it at some point as a "just in case" safety measure. Just thought I'd point that out so you can decide for yourself how you go about it.
Or I could go with this.. http://www.harborfreight.com/170-amp...der-68885.html.
I'd save 300$, but the "get what you pay for" probably comes into play. Harbor freight usually has good warranties though. Might not be bad for now.
Yeah, I seen Nofords mention that. I'll probably still go along with what you did or just drill a new hole and reinforce it like adsy did on his car. I'd rather go the route you did though so it's a little simpler and don't have to cut up the frame rail.
06-04-12, 03:30 PM
#49
Yeah that was my thinking, the less I had to modify on the car itself the better. Not sure why I didn't think of attaching it to the steering box/idler arm holes though lol. Oh well.
I tend to avoid harbor freight for anything other than consumables (cutoff wheels etc) but it's your call. I'm sure it would work long enough to get this job done at least lol.
I tend to avoid harbor freight for anything other than consumables (cutoff wheels etc) but it's your call. I'm sure it would work long enough to get this job done at least lol.
06-04-12, 03:57 PM
#50
I was looking at the lincoln pro mig 140 now. Says it's capable of 5/16" steel. Seems like a good welder. Mig/flux core, uses 120 volt plug. With the lincoln mig 180 I would need a 230 socket which I don't have..
Or I could go with this.. http://www.harborfreight.com/170-amp...der-68885.html.
I'd save 300$, but the "get what you pay for" probably comes into play. Harbor freight usually has good warranties though. Might not be bad for now.
Yeah, I seen Nofords mention that. I'll probably still go along with what you did or just drill a new hole and reinforce it like adsy did on his car. I'd rather go the route you did though so it's a little simpler and don't have to cut up the frame rail.
Or I could go with this.. http://www.harborfreight.com/170-amp...der-68885.html.
I'd save 300$, but the "get what you pay for" probably comes into play. Harbor freight usually has good warranties though. Might not be bad for now.
Yeah, I seen Nofords mention that. I'll probably still go along with what you did or just drill a new hole and reinforce it like adsy did on his car. I'd rather go the route you did though so it's a little simpler and don't have to cut up the frame rail.
of upgrading to a "used" car's steering. On top of all that, you'd lose your beautiful wheels.
For your situation - get the respeed steering kit and call it a day. You don't need TII brakes, unless you are REPEATEDLY braking hard, as in a road course. Remember the limiting factor is tire grip. I am sure you can lock up your stock brakes all day as well.
Just good ventilated rotors, upgraded pads, and SS brake lines. TII brakes are not going to stop you any faster, they will just prevent fade over stock.
I *wish* I had gone that way in the first place.
Last edited by Directfreak; 06-04-12 at 07:36 PM.